| Author | Message | ||
     Sub65chris |
I ran my bike out of gas today. It seems that running the ethanol gas means I get fewer miles in between fill-ups. I normally could go for about 25-30 miles on teh low fuel light but to day i only went for 15 and she died out. had to shake the bike and let it sit for a few minutes before riding to the gas station 1/2 mile away. put 3.2 gallons into the tank. Ithis had never happend before just sharing . | ||
| Swordsman |
 ~SM | ||
| Darthane |
Depending on how much ethanol is in the mix, it can result in a severe (think 15-20% for E85) reduction in MPG. There just isn't as much energy in it as there is in gasoline. ...bear that in mind if you're looking at a new vehicle and it's FlexFuel; other than the 'green' aspect, chances are pretty good that you're not saving any money by using E85 due to the reduction in gas mileage. | ||
| Spiderman |
Ester (my pet name for Ethanol) is great for makin ponies, bad for MPGs | ||
| Bobr |
Corn ethanol being more green is pretty much a myth according to some. National Geographic did a long article on it a while back and in last Sunday's NYT it was describe as driving up food costs, emitting more CO2, and providing a third less energy per gallon than gas. My new XT has had a problem stumbling off idle every now and then. I had been filling up at Shell stations and noticed their 10% ethanol label (very small and inconspicuous). I've avoided Shell since and the bike seems better. Not 100% sure it is really related but the manual does say it's OK to run ethanol as long as it's not over 10%. I suspect the 10% figure is an average and at times one could get a >10% mixture. | ||
| Point_doc |
I never buy Shell gas unless it is the only option. I ride with other Buell riders and one day we all topped off at a Shell station; well during the ride each of our bikes started pinging at the same area of the ride. | ||
| Firebolt020283 |
so these bikes will really run off of ethanol? | ||
| Dynasport |
This ethanol deal is very confusing to me. Some make it sound like such a good idea. Others make it sound awful. I am not sure who I believe. I do know it seems like all the stations these days have an ethanol sticker on their pumps. And food and gas is getting more expensive. | ||
| Chainsaw |
It seems that running the ethanol gas means I get fewer miles in between fill-ups Just to clarify, do you mean E85 or gasoline that is 10% Ethanol? 10% is all I get here in Colorado, and I get 55mpg riding like a maniac. | ||
| Johnnylunchbox |
Ethanol is made from corn, and in certian parts of the country corn is pork. F corn as fuel. | ||
| Firebolt32 |
I've noticed that with Shell's. It seems like Mr. Shell has completely taken over central florida. Every time I need gas there is only a Shell around. To burn everything cleaner I've started adding Methanol to the tank every other fill up. | ||
| Jaimec |
Funny... Shell is listed as one of the FEW "Top Tier" gas brands out there. I've never had a problem with it, either. Wonder why the difference in experience? http://www.toptiergas.com/ | ||
| Darthane |
Ethanol can actually be derived from virtually any - and I mean ANY - organic material. Corn is used here because our idiotic government pays farmers to grow far more corn than we actually EAT, and therefore once upon a time there was tons of it that literally went to waste. There are other ways to derive it that are vastly more efficient and do not use up valuable croplands. As mentioned earlier, ethanol derived from foodstuffs isn't generally very green at all - the amount of energy required to convert it into ethanol removes or completely blows by any gains when it's burned as a fuel (similar to electric cars being 'green' - not when the vast majority of electricity is derived from pollutant sources!). I doubt our bikes will run E85, but honestly I don't know, never checked, and would never use it even if they can. ...virtually all gasoline sold in the US nowadays is at least 10% ethanol. Here in Michigan it's usually 15%. | ||
| Zac4mac |
I've had good results from Shell for the past year. Preferred Chevron, but they left Colorado a year or two back. After Shell, Conoco, then Phillips 66. Also I prefer pumps with a dedicated hose for Premium. I hate those "one nozzle for all grades". Generic no-name only if it's almost time to get off and push. Zack | ||
| Swordsman |
What kills me is that there are several different plants you can use that are more efficient at converting to ethanol than corn, yet they're totally hung up it. Ethanol can be made out of all kinds of stuff... there's a plant going in here in GA that will be using scrap wood chips, which will be cheaper than using corn. A few years back, switch grass was supposed to be the holy grail of ethanol, and that idea disappeared almost as fast s it was uttered. "Switchgrass has the potential to produce the biomass required for production of up to 100 gallons (380 liters) of ethanol per metric ton.[11] This gives switchgrass the potential to produce 1000 gallons of ethanol per acre, compared to 665 gallons for sugarcane and 400 gallons for corn.[12]" ~SM | ||
| Jaimec |
Can you produce ethanol from kudzu?  | ||
| Dongalonga |
YES | ||
| Spatten1 |
What kills me is that there are several different plants you can use that are more efficient at converting to ethanol than corn, yet they're totally hung up it. A buddy of mine is working for a firm making ethanol from Algae. If they can make it cost efficient it would be a stellar solution. The algae can eat all kinds of crap and grow fast with a bit of sunlight. | ||
| Jlnance |
This ethanol deal is very confusing to me. Some make it sound like such a good idea. Others make it sound awful. I believe the majority of the conflicting results are the result of putting ethanol into vehicles that were not designed to burn it. Issues crop up when you do that. Ethanol has several nice properties as a fuel. However, it's water soluble and corrosive, and dumping too much into a fuel system designed for something else is going to cause problems. | ||
| Azxb9r |
In Az. we have "oxygenated fuel" from October through March. It is a 10% ethanol blend to help cut emissions. During the hotter months we go back to "normal" fuel. The oxygenated fuel has issues with pinging in the hot weather. Anyway, most people notice a drop in gas mileage with the 10% ethanol blend. Do not , under any circumstance, put E-85 into a vehicle that is not designed for it(i.e. a flex-fuel vehicle). | ||
| Blake |
Ethanol may not be a green fuel due to the processing cost, but it is an alternative to petroleum that can be used to fuel motor vehicles, which with the global demand these days is a wise thing to promote. "there's a plant going in here in GA that will be using scrap wood chips, which will be cheaper than using corn." That will be methanol; unlike ethanol you no should drinky, else you go blind. Thought you might need to know.  | ||
| Notmyrealnamedot_com |
HUA AZ! Here in AZ all I will ever use is Chevron, and I hate "winter" gas! I have to also agree with Zac4Mac, I hate singular hose pumps, I paid for premium, don't mix my stuff with that ****. | ||
| Bombardier |
So I guess that's the end of my afternoon petrol and lemon cocktail then Blake? | ||
| Firebolt020283 |
blake is refering to the fact that moonshine is ethanol. | ||
| Swordsman |
Huh, coulda' sworn the article claimed it (the wood chip factory) was ethanol...? Can they use methanol in place of ethanol in fuel blends, because I KNOW they were talking about fuel. About consumption, a guy at work runs a 100% alcohol drag car, and he said the fuel required doubled once he converted it over from gasoline. ~SM (Message edited by Swordsman on April 25, 2008) | ||
| Jaimec |
Methanol can NOT be used in current gasoline-based engines. It is extremely corrosive, and highly hygroscopic (i.e. it absorbs water right out of the air, leading to corrosion throughout the fuel system). It IS used in certain racing applications (where the engines are torn down and rebuilt on a regular basis) and is the basis for model airplane "Glo-plug" engines. I believe Blake is mistaken, though. There is a process for extracting ethanol (grain alcohol) from cellulose, and wood contains a LOT of cellulose. It is, however, a far more costly and expensive process than producing it straight from glucose (because first the cellulose has to be converted to glucose). Chemically, cellulose and glucose have the same chemical formula. Molecularly, though, they have entirely different atomic structures. I don't remember my high school chemistry that well, but I believe the term is "isomer." (Message edited by jaimec on April 25, 2008) | ||
| Vwflat4driver |
Ethonal is a great fuel source. I dont believe we as a country can produce enough of it to satisfy demand but the octane of ethonal is in the 100's. Great for high compression engines. The down fall is it requires more fuel to create a good burn making mpg go down. Our fuel system cant handle the demand of more fuel therefor we would need to make mods such as larger injectors and stainless type fuel lines. of course our ECM would need to be recalibrated to compensate for the need of more fuel . I believe if I remember right that e85 is 85 percent ethonal and 15 percent gasoline to aid in cold weather starting... dont qoute me on that! | ||
| Blake |
Thanks Jaime for the education. It's good to learn something new and not be so ignorant as yesterday. | ||
| Acejay |
in australia our shell petrol is probably different to the stuff you get, but we also have problems running it in motorbikes. ive even had dealer mechanics tell me to put anything in my bike but shell premium, called optimax over here. im no chemist, but ive heard from a few places that the only real differences between petrol brands are the detergents etc that they put in there, and shells dont mix with motorcycles. sounds like its a worldwide thing | ||
| Jaimec |
Screwed up again, Blake... but I was CLOSE. Cellulose has the same chemical formula as a simple STARCH, not a simple sugar. But there is a process where it can be converted to glucose which can then be fermented into grain alcohol. At least I got the term correct: Cellulose is an isomer of Starch. The things you learn at the Discovery and National Geographic websites! | ||
| Mark61 |
Corn for ethanol. Does anyone ever read those articles in Reader's Digest about the "FARM LOBBY"? Half the people I grew up with lived on family farms. Now exactly NONE of them can compete with the industrial size farms who have a ton of money to LOBBY Washington's theaves. Corn for fuel is right up there with Detriot actually making fuel economy cars--BFJ! mark61 | ||
| Darthane |
"Corn for fuel is right up there with Detriot actually making fuel economy cars--BFJ!" Hey, can the negativity! Chevrolet has the Aveo (actually a Toyota), Ford is reintroducing the Fiesta (actually a Mazda), and Chrysler will be introducing a subcompact in a couple years (actually a Nissan). How DARE you insinuate that Detroit is incapable of producing a fuel-efficient small car! | ||
| Blake |
"Now exactly NONE of them can compete with the industrial size farms who have a ton of money to LOBBY Washington's theaves (sic) ." So you are saying that the conglomerate farming corporations are lobbying for lower prices to drive the private farmer out of business?  If not, please explain what you are meaning. My uncle and cousin grow corn in central PA and are having a wonderful time making money at it right now. They also use it to heat their homes during the Winter. | ||
| Mark61 |
Ever see who actually gets the "government support" for the farmers? It sure aint the little guys/family farms. It is the mega operations getting the money. Got less than 500 acres? which is huge for a family farm in Pa. forget about any government help. Ask you uncle and cousins who is getting all the government money. Besides from what I read it takes as much energy to make a gallon of ethanol as you get back from it. Just5 like with electric cars. If you use less gasoline but more fuel oil producing electric to recharge what good is it? mark61 |
