| Author | Message | ||
     Macbuell |
I have owned an XB9S for about four months now and have almost 3,000 miles on it. I have a couple of questions regarding performance upgrades on the the bike. 1) Exhaust, which one, out of Force, D&D, Wileyco, and Latus is considered to be the best. I like the D&D but it is really loud, maybe too loud for me. Also, does anyone know the audio DB's the D&D puts out. I want to start doing track days but Jennings GP has a noise limit of 104db's. I do not want to buy an aftermarket can if I am going to have to worry about it exceeding that level. 2) I want to put the Nallin Racing 1050cc Big Bore Kit on my bike. I want the extra horses and torque but don't want to bore the cases as would be required for the 1200cc Kit. My first question is, what is the difference between the standard kit, the Stage 2 and the Stage 3 and if it is worth the extra $1000 to $1400 in terms of power gain and the stress on the motor, etc. My second question, what affect will the Big Bore Kit have on an extended warranty? Will they void the warranty? Thanks for the help and excuse my ignorance. | ||
| Cro13 |
I’m glad that someone asked this. I have also been starting to think of performance up grades. I fully expect that any non Buell modification will void the warranty for at least the part of the bike that has been modified. My biggest fear is affecting the reliability. I’m not a racer I just want some extra straight line power but I still have to count on the bike getting me to work Monday morning. Also, is it possible to go for some of the Nallin Racing modifications but keep the Buell race can? I look forward to reading the answers to Macbuell’s questions. Thanks, Carter | ||
| Aaron |
1) I believe the Nallin Racing/Force pipe will handily beat any of those other pipes in torque and horsepower. But if you think the D&D may be too loud, you probably wouldn't be happy with the volume level of the Force. Personally, I like it, it's a snarly tone that makes the bike sound like a top fuel dragster (ok, I'm exagerating a touch, but only a touch). 2) Stage 1 is porting and a valve job. Factory heads tend to be all over the place flow-wise, and there's lots of room for improvement in port configuration and seat blending and so forth, so they respond real well to Stage 1 work. Lots of good motors out there with Stage 1 heads. Stage 2 is the big valve treatment (high quality 1.85 intake/1.615 exhaust). New high performance .600 lift springs are included. Port configuration changes to take advantage of the big valves. With matching components, this takes it to the next level and enables the motor to make more torque and horsepower over the entire range. Stage 3 is Stage 2 with new bronze manganese guides and custom features ... for example angled squish bands, 1.9" intake valves, .650 or .700 lift springs, we'll set the chamber volume for the CR you want, set the valve to valve clearance for the cams you're using, whatever your project calls for (within reason) is included in the price. It works out cheaper than buying Stage 2 and then adding those features piecemeal. Stage 3 is our most popular by far. The XB9, IMO, is something of an understressed motor. Rods are strong, crank is strong, piston speeds are low, and the oil squirters do a good job of carrying heat away from the piston. They probably have more margin than any other Buell motor. I wouldn't worry about it myself, even at 1200cc they're holding up good. Many of the components you're talking about putting into the motor are much higher quality than the factory stuff, too, and will outlast the factory pieces by quite a bit. The main thing is the valvetrain ... if you put in a cam grind that beats on the valvetrain and needs a lot of spring to keep it under control, that'll compromise longevity. But at 1050cc, I'd recommend staying with the stock cams, it's actually an excellent grind for that motor, and it's gentle on the valvetrain to boot. edited by Aaron on August 21, 2003 | ||
| Daves |
I finally got to hear the Force pipe in person! I neeeeeed mine now! WOW! Aaron, Ask Justin where the 2 I ordered are at and when I can expect them. I gotta have one, NOW! Thank you. MacBuell, If you think the D+D is too loud you won't like the Force pipe. The Wileyco or Latus or the Buell race muffler will be better for you. I have the Wileyco in stock. Ride to the edge! Dave HD/Buell Cycle center Waterloo Ia Iowa HD/Buell (Buell Cycle Center) | ||
| Gonen60 |
can you add the D&D or the Force pipe, and keep the Buell race ecm..or do you have to make changes. I added the Buell Race Kit, and I wish the pipe was much Louder.. | ||
| Macbuell |
Aaron, it sounds like you are saying that the Stage 3 is the way to go and that it is worth the money. What kind of HP and Torque gains can you expect from the Stage 3 Kit? Dave, I agree it sounds like the Wilyeco might be the best pipe for me. What kind of gains can I expect for that pipe? I'll be adding a high-flow K& filter. Would you recommend going with the stock ECM or the Race ECM with the Wileyco. Last Question (I know I am full of them today), I have heard of people removing the snorkle. What does this do for engine performance and is it bad for the life of the engine? Thanks for all the help? Obviously I am looking for all the information I can before I start making these modifications. By the way, this site rocks. I spent far too much time at the sportbikes.com site but there is no Buell traffic and the site is populated by people that rag on Buells for being "underpowered and overpriced." Whatever, they can have their rice burners. | ||
| Darthane |
All taking that snorkel out will do is allow the engine to breathe in better. It narrows the intake pipe by 7-10mm. It will not adversely affect engine life. In fact, with a K&N, new pipe and possibly a new ECM, I'd say you most definitely SHOULD remove it. | ||
| Aaron |
"can you add the D&D or the Force pipe, and keep the Buell race ecm..or do you have to make changes. " The Race ECM cannot handle the Force pipe, it coughs and sputters and runs lean. This is why we bundle the pipe with a pre-mapped Power Commander. The map we provide is made to work with the stock ECM, the hi-performance O2 sensor, and the baffle. We include the baffle and O2 sensor in the kit because they really do make it run better. We spent some time on sorting all this out. "What kind of HP and Torque gains can you expect from the Stage 3 Kit?" Always remember, your performance is not the sum total of all the gains from a bunch of individual pieces, the performance is defined by the thing that's holding the motor back. You can put on a massively better part, for example a good set of Stage 3 heads, but if say the exhaust system is the thing that was holding the stock motor back, those heads won't do a thing for you. That said, we have multiple customers achieving mid to upper 90's from XB9's with Stage 3 heads, 1050 kit, and the exhaust we sell. More is available, it's just a matter of addressing the next constraint. | ||
| Karlxb10 |
Arron - can you post the dyno chart from my bike. XB9S with 1050 kit, Stage 2 heads, Force pipe/O2/PC I would post it but you never sent it to me. Thanks Karl Keister | ||
| Skully |
Macbuell, Check out my "From Cruiser to Sport Bike - An XB9S Rider's Log by Keith Thrash..." in the Tale Section. I think you will find a lot of these questions answered. Feel free to email me with any questions. Keith | ||
| Dblhaulxb9s |
sorry to sound ignorant, but what is the snorkle in the air box. I haven't taken the thing apart yet but I keep hearing about people taking it out. Thanks for the info. Morgan | ||
| Darthane |
Morgan, If you twist around and look up inside the air scoop and the hole in the frame that allows air into the airbox, you'll see a black rubber lining in that inlet. That's the snorkel people keep talking about. To remove it, you will have to remove the seat, air/tank cover, top cover of the airbox itself, and possibly the bottom (can't recall on that one). All you should need is a T27 Torx bit and maybe a flat blade screwdriver to pry off the airbox. Removing the snorkel makes the inlet bigger and therefore it breathes better. While you've got it apart, buy a K&N and either make yourself a home grown 'Force' intake (somewhere buried in here I had instructions for this, if you want I'll dig them up) or drill holes in the cover like Skully did. Brian from Tilley's dynoed his before and after and I believe this mod alone was worth something like 4 hp and a few ft/lbs. Bryan edited by darthane on August 26, 2003 | ||
| Dblhaulxb9s |
Thanks Bryan, Why do they call it a snorkle, I am used to snorkles being for off road vehicles. Any way, if you could find the instructions for the "force" intake that would be great. I saw Skully's. I don't know which one I will use yet. Thanks again, Morgan PS, if you want, you can e-mail me those directions. My address is dblhaul@gunnison.com | ||
| Darthane |
http://www.badweatherbikers.com/cgibin/discus/show.cgi?tpc=32777&post=171150#POS T171150 Read down from there. If you want to do it and need anything clarified I'll be happy to help. Bryan | ||
| Dblhaulxb9s |
Bryan, Thanks for the info. I got rid of the snorkle just now and am waiting on my K&N filter. Did you dril the holes for your bolts right through the bottom of the air box? It looks like that is what you would have to do. Thanks again. Soon my bike will breathing like is should. I live at 7703 ft and it needs it. Morgan | ||
| Darthane |
Morgan, Yes, I did. I got rubber sealer washers (the kind with the rubber glued to the steel) and sandwiched the plastic between them to ensure a good seal. Bryan | ||
| Ckj |
If the clearance between the inside of the stock air box and the bell of the unmodified velocity stack is the limiting factor for air flow. Instead of shortening the velocity stack why not cut it off completely from the base? | ||
| Glitch |
Why not just cut off everything but the "turtle shell" then bolt that on top of the air filter? You'd get to keep the stack then... | ||
| Bud |
put the Iats though the stack & toss the airfilter and win 5 pony's hate the idee off running without filter, but it's done before. | ||
| Ckj |
Bryan, I am trying to copy what you did inside the air box and trying to figure out where all the different parts you used go. I would need to remove the baseplate assembly to drill through and then to anchor the lag bolts underneath it?? Any help and instructions with where the other parts go (washers, nuts, steel tube, etc)Also where do you go to purchase Plexiglass or aluminum for the plate? Thank you. | ||
| Misato |
does anyone sell that kit yet? I know I've seen the pic of the force one, but where can you buy one? | ||
| Darthane |
CKJ, I'll send you mail with some more detailed directions. DO NOT simply cut off the bugled portion of the stack. I had a brain fart and did just that to begin with, forgetting basic physics (and the name of the damned thing...they don't call it a VELOCITY stack for nothing!). I had a noticeable drop in get-up-and-go when I did that, before correcting it via the abovementioned procedure. Also, I'm not so sure it is a limiting factor, per se, but it just makes sense to me and those same physics that I momentarily forgot tell me that it can't hurt it. Bryan | ||
| Ckj |
I have been trying to find it all day and I don't think that Force sells it yet. It is their "Force Air Cleaner/Fuel Injection Box" Maybe if they returned a single email I would purchase something from them. But instead I just want to copy what they have developed (length and type of screws/bolts) | ||
| Karlxb10 |
 I posted this last weekend under the Nallin Race Pipe thread. A couple of pieces of double stick tape and a piece of foam to fill the space between the the cleaner and the tank cover. Cheap - fast - effective. |
