| Author | Message | ||
     Bigsherm9r |
Here in the Army, we have custom patches made for our Scout Helicopter unit. This got me thinking... How cool a big-ass oval Buell patch would be on the back and front of my black mesh jacket, not to mention, on a number of leather jackets I've seen from Harley and others, or even on my backpack. Thing is, you gotta buy a bunch to order them, and of course they are cheaper the more you order. I found a shop that'll do as little as 12, and at a foot wide, oval shaped, they're about $30.00 a piece. I'm thinking the Buell, different in every sense oval in black, white, and orange. Sound off and we'll get this going! Sherm | ||
| Dblhaulxb9s |
Hell yes Sherm. I would love one of those. This is Morgan from Gunnison, CO. I just had my old riding jacket stolen, that's right stolen along with my camera and sunglasses that were in it and I am getting a new jacket soon and I would love a patch like that for the back. Count me in. | ||
| Blake |
Sherm, Copyright infringement?  Better ask Buell first to be safe. | ||
| Bigsherm9r |
Copyright infringement? Hmmm... Not that I care, really, since it's for my jacket, and will be the Buell emblem exactly. I suppose I could get it done with a trademark symbol? Any lawyers out there? It's not like I'm labeling another product with the Buell name. I don't think every H-D sticker made was with the Motor Company's permission. Feedback is welcome from Someone Who knows what they're talking about. Sherm | ||
| Glitch |
Sherm, I work for the "Legal Connection" at Coca-Cola here in Atlanta. Coke takes their trademark very seriously. In the North Ave Tower there is a whole floor dedicated to Trademarks. Harley, no doubt is as serious. The thing to consider here is it ok, since it's not for profit, and only made for one person, not for general distribution. But, to be honest, the most that would happen would be a Cease & Desist Order. I would, however, ask. I doubt they would say no. | ||
| Darthane |
Umm...Buell makes them - the new Buell logo, in reflective silver/blue, about 10" wide, oval. I got mine for $9. They also make a smaller one, like 6" or so. Bryan | ||
| Xgecko |
Where did you find it????I've been looking for just that | ||
| Court |
>>>Harley, no doubt is as serious. Harley's legal staff, based in Michigan, makes Coke look like a playgound scuffle. In addition, there are some unique quirks to intellectual property laws that demand you defend and pursue ALL violations just not the "big" ones. This accounts for the awesome firepower brought against some "Harley" shops in Wyoming with annual revenues of about $18. | ||
| Rocketman |
I have good friends who specialize in Ford vehicle dismantling, parts selling. Have done for nearly 25 years, about 20 of them as AUTOFORD. About 5 years ago ALL the non franchised Ford specialist garages in the UK, and there are plenty, that carried the word Ford in their business name or used the Ford logo in their advertising etc and even the Ford colour schemes in shop displays or windows or whatever were challenged by solicitors acting on behalf of FoMoCo to cease this practice or face legal actions. My friends and others of similar business persuasion engaged a top London based lawyer to act on their behalf. Ford were adamant that the only way they would not pursue a case no matter how small was if the person owning said Ford named business was born with the name Ford. My friends now trade as Autoafford! Clever eh!! Rocket  | ||
| Court |
And the Brits, my friend, were responsible for one of the greatest "holster your guns and back away from the trademark" showdowns in Buell history. Yes....I saved all the pictures and documentation.  Court | ||
| Phillyblast |
Sherm, IIRC trademark is unique in that you have to defend it or you lose it, unlike copyright. So Buell has to defend any infringement, or they lose the Buell trademark. | ||
| Darthane |
I bought mine at Triple S Buell in Morgantown, WV. When I get the chance I'll see if perhaps there is an XREF# on it for ya. | ||
| Mikej |
I wonder if millions of tattoos leads to something being in the public domain? 'nuff said? | ||
| Glitch |
Harley's legal staff, based in Michigan, makes Coke look like a playgound scuffle. I don't see how you can say this. I'm not saying it's not true. It's just that I know the Coke staff(All of North America anyway, only parts of South Africa, Japan, England, France, and India). And I know the general council. I've not met the Harley staff, so I would never say anything about them, good, bad, indifferent, big, or small. But to say Coke Legal looks like a playground scuffle, makes me wonder what run in you've had with Coke...you been makin' counterfeit polar bears again?  edited by glitch on August 07, 2003 | ||
| Kcfirebolt |
Interesting discussion. Isn't it in Buell's interests to allow non-factory produced items with their logo? Free advertising. Makes me think that if the gentleman above took the time to call Buell and ask permission, then Buell should fall all over themselves to say "yes." They need to foster and encourage just that kind of devotion and brand affection. Furthermore, it was just this kind of action (the desire to make his own patch) that made Harley Davidson what it is today. Harley has had 100 years of patches, jackets, tatoos and such to make it an icon. Buell has only had about 20 years. Therefore, a request to make a Buell patch for personal use and the use of other enthusiasts should be embraced by the company management. They are too smart to be penny wise and pound foolish about non-factory sources. Call'em and ask'em. They need you and more people like you. It is how brands are built and sustained, and it is particularly critical for a brand this young. I just hope there isn't a patently obvious reason I haven't thought of that will prove my thinking is full of crap!  | ||
| Court |
>>>So Buell has to defend any infringement, or they lose the Buell trademark. Precisely or risk constructively making it public domain. The decision to incorporate the Buell Owners Club, Inc. in 1989 is looking better in retrospect. >>>I don't see how you can say this. Actually, I wsa just making an example. I don't know squat about Coke other than some of their history. My point was that Harley-Davidson aggresively defends all their intellectual property. I, personally, am convinced that the fabled "patent the noise" effort was never intended to succeed, just to make a point (free publicity) about how virourously HD defends their goodies. >>>Isn't it in Buell's interests to allow non-factory produced items with their logo? Free advertising. I'd be very skepital and give'em a straight "no" until convinced. Strategic alliances are coming in vouge but for reasons ranging from imputed liability (as in "well, it said "Buell" and you did nothing to ...."  to lack of control over quality, I'd want little to do with it, if I couldn't control it. Just my thoughts... | ||
| Glitch |
Isn't it in Buell's interests to allow non-factory produced items with their logo? Free advertising. No, Court said it best about quality control. Plus how would you like it if you had a chance to make money on Charles Miller performance gear, and joe schmoe started making crappy Charles Miller T-shirts that fall apart in the 1st wash. Not up to Charles Miller's standards I'd bet, and, you'd not want to be a part of that when someone that bought a shirt and came to you and said, "Ya'll make great widgets, but yer shirts suck." I, personally, am convinced that the fabled "patent the noise" effort was never intended to succeed, just to make a point (free publicity) about how virourously HD defends their goodies. I have wondered about this, the trademark people here have talked about it. I seems to have been a real learning experiance for the whole trademark world. I'm not sure about a publicity stunt, but, it sure was a good experiment in the feild of trademarks. A lot of things that went into that campain gives food for thought in trademark groups around the world. | ||
| Mookie |
can someone clue me in as to what the "patent the noise" effort is about? | ||
| Jazzbluesman |
Harley tried to patent their sound like a trademark. They would have been better off copyrighting it like a song. That song is now owned by the public. Time to go patent my genetics before I have to pay royalties to breed. | ||
| Glitch |
HD wanted to patent the sound a Harley makes. You know the "Patato Patato Patato" makes at idle. This reminds me of when one of the investigators went to a local head shop (annony tip) and found them selling bongs made out of NASCAR collector bottles. She had about 10 on her desk. It was pretty funny at the time. Cease & Desist Order got 'em to stop. | ||
| Glitch |
They would have been better off copyrighting it like a song. True, but that's been done, I'm with Court, it was most likely an experiment. No one took it seriously, but one must push the envelope to find the limitations. When this happened it made a lot of people think of things "outside the box," and a times, you've got to try something that's not been done to get people thinking. Some good information came from that. Harley thinking outside the box...Wuddyathinkathat? | ||
| Ara |
Harley spent years and who knows how many millions of dollars trying to patent the sound of their engines. If you bought a Harley-Davidson product (bike, jacket, shoelaces) in that time period, you helped pay for it. Stupid, shameful, and most definiely Harley-Davidson. If you ask if you can make non-licensed replicas of a logo that H-D owns, their response is quite predictable. | ||
| Court |
>>>Harley spent years and who knows how many millions of dollars trying to patent the sound of their engines. Ever priced 60 seconds of national TV time? The USPTO did a great job as a stand in publicist for the folks at HD. My compliments to the person (if there was one) who "Huck Finned" the world. | ||
| Ara |
Court, yes I know that air time is expensive. So is a rabid legal department that spends years attempting the inexplicably stipid. Remember, commercials produce revenue; legal departments are COST centers not profit centers and produce no revenue, no cash flow, and no profit. The comparison you draw is therefore flawed. No offense intended, Court, it just doesn't logically wash. | ||
| Ara |
I'll restate my point: With a legal department like that, any request to produce an unlicensed logo that H-D owns will very likely be met with a threat of litigation. | ||
| Glitch |
legal departments are COST centers Man, if I had a dollar for every time I've heard that one. Nobody wants the cost, but nobody wants the insecurity of not having the cost. I have survived lay off after lay off, because of the cost of the legal dept. 1300 people have not. No, I'm not a lawyer, I'm just the tech-goob that takes care of the legal dept's network, software, and hardware. | ||
| Steveshakeshaft |
Different thing entirely, but kinda related. A couple of our members have been asked by the Harley/Buell lawyers in the UK to remove the Buell logo and pictures from their websites. I'd say it was a pretty vicious thing to do really. Even if they were legally entitled to act. At least one of the persons is still one of the marque's finest unofficial European ambassadors. Another member was asked to transfer over to the Moco his website address that contained the word "Buell". They offered to pay "reasonable expenses" for the transaction. The response to the lawyers was "how much is it worth? or get lost". That, interestingly, was the end of the story I believe. I can't confirm this, but I *think* that some people did go onto register more web addresses in a sort of cyber-squat protest to the company. Interesting I thought. Steve steve_s@ukbeg.com www.ukbeg.com | ||
| Davegess |
Interesting to look at the Current Triumph logo. It is ever so slightly different than the original. I have always speculated that John Bloor felt it would be impossible to reclaim the trade mark on the original so they market all the trash and trinkets using the new one. I could be way off base on this. | ||
| Bigsherm9r |
I just talked to a lady named Kathy in motorclothes at an H-D dealer that BADWEB poster Steveford gave us (570-992-7500). Patches in stock, 11 inches by 4&1/2 inches, blue/gray oval at $12.00 plus tax. | ||
| Glitch |
ONLY $12? cool! | ||
| Ebear |
bigsherm9r....... Did you by any chance get a buell part number???? thanks | ||
| Darthane |
BUELL28116L BUELL PATCH LARGE $11.00 <~~is what's written on the tag from mine. |
