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Dhalen32
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 13, 2008 - 08:28 am: | 
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Wsplrll:
Disclaimer!!!! I work part time at a H-D/Buell dealer !!!!!
I'm a life long gear head and do most of my own work but occasionally I have them do tasks that I don't have the time or tools to do myself or what might be a warranty issue. While I wish their hourly rate were lower (I only get a parts discount) I have been very satisfied with everything they have done on our bikes in the past 5 years I have worked for them.
If you just moved to State College have you even tried doing business with the local dealer? Why start off with the attitude that they are incompetent or will rip you off? Who cares what you have " heard"? Why not form your own opinion? When I lived in State College there was a dealer just south and east of town. Are they still there?
It is easy for all of us to complain about dealerships not having parts, training, etc but it is also not fair to purchase all of our parts from internet suppliers, do the work ourselves and then complain about lack of dealership support. This is a chicken and egg thing. If you do use the dealer and purchase parts and service then they will get the idea that we really are "customers" and deserve the respect that our "Harley cousins" are getting.
I'm sure that some of you have had bad experiences with your local shop. Mine has been pretty good and I will continue to be a customer and cheerleader for the Buell brand whenever I am presented with the opportunity to do so. As the brand grows I hope that we will hear more good than bad about dealers. Until then, when you move to a new locale why not try doing business with the local guy until they give you reason to go elsewhere. Vote with your pocketbook and the good guys will flourish while the bad guys will fail.
Just my opinion by the way! 
Dave |
Kuuud
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 13, 2008 - 10:16 am: |
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I'm sure you can find a reputable independent mechanic for routine maintenance if you prefer not to do it. |
Glitch
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 13, 2008 - 10:26 am: |
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Honestly, the only complaint I have with the dealerships I've dealt with, is the labor cost. I also realize this is a dictated cost, nothing a tech, mechanic, service writer, parts people ... can do anything about. Everything else has been on the up and up. |
Wsplrll
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 13, 2008 - 11:48 am: |
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Dave - ( and everyone else)
Thanks for the reply -
I am glad that someone that is a admitted "gearhead" can relate to the position that sometimes we choose not to do our own work for whatever reason. Some enjoy -more power to them- some do not.
To clarify - I never said that all dealers are ripoff. That is something that I think was misconstrued by my comments. I was usuing other peoples comments as an example and I also listed some of the dealers in my old neck of the woods that I felt were decent dealerships. We all hate the cost of things these days but as long as we get what we pay for most of us are willing to pay the price - IF we can.
The one dealership in State College that I was referring to is Kissells. I have met the owner and the staff and they seem to be a good organization. The other place - might be ok but doesn't seem to be run as well.
About the best thing I take away from this discussion is that a combination of doing some things myself and establishing a relationship with a local ( non-Buell) dealer and the occasional trip to Williamsport ( 60 miles if need be)might be the solution to adapt to keeping the Buells and being able to keep them and enjoy them.
My main issue is I wish that Harley Dealers would not see Buell as a liability and at least have some level of support. This way there would be at least 2-3 places relatively close that if you needed a part or something needed to be done that you didn't have the where-with-all or the time to deal with you could get it done without having it infringe on your all too short time to be riding.
Obviously there is that argument of better to have fewer Buell dealers that do a better job than more that do a crappy job. |
Cityxslicker
| | Posted on Thursday, February 14, 2008 - 04:57 pm: |
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I think clearer heads need to prevail on this. If you have walked in , sat down and talked to the guys behind the counter and are getting attitude, ask if it is because you brought a chip on your shoulder. Everyone gets one fair shot with me. I try to be open fair honest and fun with everyone. If you cant have fun being around motorcycles everyday, there are other places that are truly miserable that would love your company. Motorcycling for most of us is NOT our only source of transport. This should be fun. I may not saying you have to get along with everybody, and I really am not out to. I want to help people enjoy the bikes as much as I do. I prefer to promote the Buell brand, I just happen to work at an H-D Dealership. We could all play the superiority complex of biking longer, farther, faster, more days than the next guy, but so what!?! I encourage every customer to know their bike, and recommend the service manual to every single one of them, I am always impressed at how many Buellers actually buy them, use them, wear them out. Maybe we just love to tinker with things. Remember when pointing the finger, three of them are aimed back at yourself. Now lets all agree to go ride already. |
Azxb9r
| | Posted on Friday, February 15, 2008 - 01:22 am: |
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I'm sure you can find a reputable independent mechanic for routine maintenance if you prefer not to do it.
This is what I would suggest. Find an independent that you are comfortable with. You should be able to get an idea of whether or not they are familiar with Buells by talking to them for a few minutes. |
Wsplrll
| | Posted on Friday, February 15, 2008 - 10:45 am: |
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I can do that for some things - like tires and such until I can get ( or find a friend with a tire changer) but since the bike is still under warranty I would not want to pay someone to do work that is warranty work. Hopefully that event will not come up.
I did however spend some time at a local dealer yesterday. They took me into the back and I spoke for a long time to the service manager who then brought out the head technician.
They gave me all the prices for all the services and detailed the service schedule for all the bikes that I was interested in.
I have to say with the way I am treated every time I go there - I have even met the owner - and the willingness for them to help me and spend time - and their reasonable services prices - even on Ducatis....
( No I am not getting a Ducati ) I gotta say that I have to consider this against the Buell ownership experiance.
Love the bike.....don't always love owning it. I wish that I could have THAT experience with a HD/Buell dealer.
That was the original point I was trying to make. |
Wsplrll
| | Posted on Friday, February 15, 2008 - 10:48 am: |
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Cityxslicker - I don't disagree with you! |
Toona
| | Posted on Friday, February 15, 2008 - 03:17 pm: |
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Wsplrll, come on over to my shop. I'm not a dealer, I can't do warranty work, but I've rotated my motor 2 times, changed my tires, have the VDSTS software (and can use it correctly), I have both the service and parts manuals, a shop full of tools, (lifts, welders etc), and I'm only 30 minutes away (depending on which side of SC you live.)
If all else fails, the V-twin repair shop that rents off of me does my oil changes, or any other service work I choose not to do on my own. He is very competent and cares about his work. The best part is he charges less than half of what the stealership charges for an hourly rate.
He's taken my XB12 out on numerous occaisions just for fun and loves it. He's done work on both mine and XB9er's Buells.
Hope that helps. If all else fails, you gotta come over for the Res Ride in May. |
Toona
| | Posted on Friday, February 15, 2008 - 03:24 pm: |
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Dhalen32, Number One Cycle Center dropped Buells a few years back. I have the sign off their store in my shop 
So any warranty work would have to be done at Horsepower HD/B in Williamsport (60 minutes north of SC) or Highland HD/B in Somerset (90 minutes south of SC).
At least HP HD/B had the factory demo truck in 2 years ago, not sure about last year (or this coming year). |
Wsplrll
| | Posted on Friday, February 15, 2008 - 05:33 pm: |
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Gotta say....can't beat Buell owners.
Thanks Toona
And I was checking out the posts about the Res Ride. I will make it a point to try to ride over for that! |
Buellpastor
| | Posted on Saturday, February 16, 2008 - 05:56 pm: |
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My dealer is great, but they are exclusive Buell. I just got in from the large Harley Dealer who also owns this small Buell shop and they have all of 3 Buells, almost no accessories, and no one there - at least on the show room floor and at the parts counter that I have dealt with seems to know much at all or care at all about them. I've looked at Buells for a few years and really thought they were cool but couldn't find anyone in any Harley dealer who knew much about them until the local HD shop moved into a mega store and left the old one for Buells. My sales guy rides a buell, the parts guys know Buell, and the service guy mostly works on Buells. Cool. They also give a 15% discount for anyone on the BW so they are competitive with the internet on pricing. |
Buellboiler
| | Posted on Saturday, February 16, 2008 - 11:10 pm: |
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I think we are looking at this from the wrong perspective. H-D should do all that it can to keep Buell owners in the fold. If they are treated like misfits they can always find more love at Honda, Kawasaki, Yamaha, etc. This isn't a take it or leave it situation. There are alternatives and if they want to keep market share they need to be competitive in all phases of the industry.
The boomers are on the way out so they can't expect to ride this wave forever. |
Ft_bstrd
| | Posted on Sunday, February 17, 2008 - 02:19 am: |
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Guys,
There are piss poor dealers in every product under the sun. The trick is finding the GOOD ones not bitching about the bad ones. The bad ones are bad not because of the product. They are bad because they are bad. BMC can't do anything about bad dealers. Each is independent and are allowed to run their business in any manner they wish. If they wish to suck, they will. It's that simple.
There are sucky Honda, Suzuki, Yamaha, etc. dealers. There are also some really good ones. If you go into the dealership expecting them to be bad, you'll probably find them to be expected. If you expect perfection, you ain't gettin' it anywhere. |
Buellinator
| | Posted on Sunday, February 17, 2008 - 08:28 am: |
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Reading about all these dealers reminds me of the first time I stopped at my local dealer with my new Cyclone.
I pulled up to my local dealer and got off the bike just as the head mechanic was coming out the door. He looked over at the M2 and said, "what the f**k did you buy that for?"
Needless to say with that attitude, I never returned to that dealer for any service work. |
Ferris_von_bueller
| | Posted on Sunday, February 17, 2008 - 09:07 am: |
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By a manual and take your bike to the foreign motorcycle shop. I have a multi-brand shop I've used in the past without any issues. |
Buellboiler
| | Posted on Sunday, February 17, 2008 - 03:33 pm: |
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"They are bad because they are bad. BMC can't do anything about bad dealers."
Perhaps that is a BIG part of the problem. I have a problem believing that statement as fact. I would love it if my boss had no way to affect me if I were doing a bad job! |
4cammer
| | Posted on Sunday, February 17, 2008 - 05:28 pm: |
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>>The trick is finding the GOOD ones not bitching about the bad ones.>>
That is a hell of a trick. |
Clutchless
| | Posted on Sunday, February 17, 2008 - 06:18 pm: |
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"I have a problem believing that statement as fact. I would love it if my boss had no way to affect me if I were doing a bad job!"
my point exactly +1 |
Ft_bstrd
| | Posted on Sunday, February 17, 2008 - 06:38 pm: |
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When you have a system where the dealer has paid for and owns the building, the land, the name, the stock, the employees, the merchandise, the tools, etc., it's hard for the company to "force" them to do anything. You can try to encourage them, but you can't coerce them.
There is a Ducati/BMW shop in Nashville. They aren't particularly good. They don't really care if they move merchandise quickly. Their attitude is that if you don't want to pay MSRP+, move over, there's someone behind you how will. They aren't terribly speedy or accommodating. Ultimately, if you want your Ducati or BMW warranty repair done, you take what they have, and you'll like it.
What can Ducati or BMW do to change their attitude? If the dealer owner makes the money he wants and covers his cost, what can they say?
The same holds true for BMC.
If BMC had stand alone dealers who owned the store and everything in it, they wouldn't be able to do anything different. If BMC really wanted control they would use development money to open BMC owned stores. Of course, we probably wouldn't have the 1125R.
Luckily, I have a choice of service shops. I wouldn't even have that if I had a Ducati or BMW |
Chellem
| | Posted on Sunday, February 17, 2008 - 06:57 pm: |
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I would love it if my boss had no way to affect me if I were doing a bad job!
Um, while the relationship between the BMC and the dealers is complex and dynamic, BMC is in no way our "boss". They can encourage us, offer training, offer promotions, offer suggestions, even strongly recommend we do many things.
But they really can't make us. The only thing they have to threaten dealers with is to yank the franchise - but it's STILL not that easy. There's contracts, legal crap - blah blah blah.
On the other hand, if they do pull the franchise, then there's one less Buell dealership, which, BTW, is another big complaint among owners.
If you have a suggestion on how BMC can coerce their dealers into "sucking less" or some other legal-ese, I'm sure they'd be interested in hearing it! |
Ft_bstrd
| | Posted on Sunday, February 17, 2008 - 07:59 pm: |
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The best way to describe the distribution system is to compare it to an IGA grocery store. Each Independent Grocer's Association member must meet minimum requirements in order to maintain their membership and association support, but the manner in which they provide their services and drive business is up to the owner.
Although not an exact comparison, it does describe some of the problems experienced by many. |
Buellboiler
| | Posted on Sunday, February 17, 2008 - 09:39 pm: |
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"If you have a suggestion on how BMC can coerce their dealers into "sucking less" or some other legal-ese, I'm sure they'd be interested in hearing it!"
Chellem,
First of all any reasonable business should not require someone to tell them how to 'suck less'!
I checked your profile and I see that you are a manager at a H-D franchise. I suspect that you are receiving some useful info from the people here and their concerns about how they are treated.
My local dealership (Bailey's) is quite good. Why? Because Jim Bailey likes Buells and supports them.
Given the horror stories I have read here, I believe that H-D's minimum standards are too lax to warrant a Buell dealership. If I owned a BMW or Ducati and had the problems that FtB mentioned, I would probably not own a BMW the next time it comes time to buy a bike.
By the way, thanks for taking the time to read through the comments posted on this site. I think I would like to visit your shop. |
Ft_bstrd
| | Posted on Sunday, February 17, 2008 - 11:59 pm: |
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If I owned a BMW or Ducati and had the problems that FtB mentioned, I would probably not own a BMW the next time it comes time to buy a bike.
That's just it. Many expect that type of treatment and believe it to be the norm. Many HD riders believe the same.
They will continue to buy the bike because it's a BMW/Ducati/HD and simply put up with the treatment.
Until Buell sales become material to the local dealer, we will have to wait for service and floor space to catch up.
If Buell sales become half of a dealers total bike and merchandise revenue, expect that half of the floor space and half of the service expertise will be devoted to Buell.
Right now, Buell is a guest on someone else's showroom, service bay, and parts department.
In 20 years, we'll laugh about "the bad old days". |
Cityxslicker
| | Posted on Monday, February 18, 2008 - 03:25 am: |
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Its a bit of the chicken and the egg. While Buell maybe be a minority of the dealership bar graph, they are a significant number of my customer base. 10-12 % of my annual customers for the last three years running have been Buell owners ( and a couple of those are multi repeats) Before I owned one, before I started selling them at our shop, they were just another two wheeled bike that were not the cookie cutter H-D norm. Along with the VRod & "girlie Sportster", it was odd to see the bikes being maligned the way they were, when the people spouting it had NEVER ridden the bike. I fully believe that if you give the Buell a demo and you can honestly say you didnt have fun riding it, you werent paying attention. After riding one around the track, I bought one, our dealer numbers and percentage of sales went up. The excitement about that bike is contagious. I would bet that every shop that moves the brand and excels at serving them has at least one enthusiastic staffer/principle on board. The are probably here as sponsors, board contributors. Seek them out. |
Chellem
| | Posted on Monday, February 18, 2008 - 10:17 am: |
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Buellboiler:'
I don't think I've made any secret that I work at a dealer. In my post I refered to "us" several times, meaning, us the dealership.
I do get a lot of "feedback" here. I've been on here for several years, and my dealership is a sponsor. So unfortunatley, threads like this are nothing new for me.
And although we do try to "not suck" as much as we can, whenever I see a thread like this I panic for a minute, afraid that someone got bad service here - although I hope that if that happens someone will contact me and give me an opportunity to make it right.
I was responding to someone's post about how Buell Motor Company should somehow compel their dealers to be better, because they're the "boss". All I meant was that BMC is NOT technically the "boss" of any dealership.
A reasonable dealership should not need someone to tell them to suck less, I agree. I think that's true of people, businesses, etc. Yet here we are, at another thread where someone had a bad dealership ("stealership?!?") encounter, and everyone starts up again.
All I meant to say, was that if someone had a good idea of how Buell Motor Company could legally require their dealers to be better, I'm sure we'd all love to hear it.
I for one would be thrilled to hear less about this. I'd LOVE if all dealerships treated Buell customers like gold. I'd LOVE it if I never had to read another thread like this.
I just don't think I know how to do that for anyone but us. And I don't think Buell does either.
->ChelleM
(of Liberty Buell in Rahway) |
Ft_bstrd
| | Posted on Monday, February 18, 2008 - 10:38 am: |
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I wonder how many Honda, Suzuki, Yamaha dealers actively scan "enthusiast" boards looking for customer feedback.
Be interesting to know. |
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