| Author | Message | ||
     Bigdepe |
Took my bike in to switch out headers, put on a new cam cover, new plugs and check timing. Told me it took them 13 hours, had to take the whole engine out (not lower and rotate it? Is this BS or what!? | ||
| Pwnzor |
Sounds like you got bent over dude. Pitch a fit, don't pay that much, demand to see the "book hours" for the job. They have factory-dictated guidelines to follow for the number of hours to charge for any given job. These "book hours" may have no correlation to real-life hours, but they should be uniform from one shop to the next. Talk to the manager or better yet, the owner. | ||
| Bo_sox |
OUCH !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! | ||
| Bebop |
+1 on book hours. I worked as a mechanic in highschool and my dad charged "book hours" for my work. I was learning so sometimes I took longer. Just cause it took me all afternoon to get the rear plugs out of your god-forsaken van didn't mean you got charged more than the half-hour it should have taken. Think of it this way; If it was only one guy on your bike then it took him a day a half (working hours) to do the work. I say BS! If they did the job wrong (dropping the motor rather than rotating it) they should not charge you for the extra time that THEY WASTED. (Message edited by bebop on February 07, 2008) | ||
| New12r |
It only takes about 30 min to swap out the headers in my barn. At a shop with all the right stuff it should not take longer. The cam cover they prolly pulled the rocker boxes like the manual says, that is why they Dropped the motor and I would bet on it. I have swapped out 3 cam covers and only pulled the rocker boxes for the first one. I thought what the hell on number two and it slid off and right back on without even rolling the motor, took me about 20 min. There is a reason my bike has not been to the dealer for service in 3 years. | ||
| Punkid8888 |
+1 on do it yourself. I would much rather spend a $1000 on tools and beer | ||
| Firebolteric_ma |
You mean you DIDN'T see this coming? HORROR stories on this site from Stealerships..... Live AND Learn | ||
| Slaughter |
I'd be curious to see the itemized list. Removing the engine???? HUH??? I don't know what the "official" manual says but I have pulled the whole cylinder/head/pipes/everything off just rotating the motor. I suppose I could get a cavity drilled if the dentist went in through my ear... but it's not the best way to get it done. See if they'll listen to some common sense. If they won't talk to you, PM me and I can photocopy the section from the maintenance manual showing how to do the top end work. I've pulled the valve covers and heads off before and have only rotated the motor. I don't even look at the manual except for torque settings for this job... so I'd be SHOCKED if I found that the recommendation was to pull the engine for top end work! | ||
| Slaughter |
I'm so stttooooopid! You said CAM COVER!!! (I was thinking valve cover!!) HO-LEE-CHIT! Wonder if they'd pull your motor to get to the primary drain plug too! I'm just saying that it just smells bad, I think you got burned for a few hours. (Message edited by slaughter on February 07, 2008) | ||
| Jos51700 |
Switching out stock headers, 1.5 hour tops, including test ride. Dropping the motor for cam cover OR rocker covers, NOT REQUIRED. Motor rotation covers both, and as new12r says, pulling the cam cover doesn't necessarily involve pulling the rocker covers, but sometimes the cams come out with the covers and the rocker covers have to come off. I think flatrate on the whole thing is like 3-4 hours. DON'T let them bill you for pulling the headers, pulling the cam cover, timing, all individually. Pulling the header and ignition timing are probably both INCLUDED in pulling the camcover (you can't pull it without loosening/removing the header or removing the timing plate). Spark plugs can be done in 30 minutes by a slack-jawed tech. I would tell them to recalculate it, and it if doesn't come to about $300 labor (Figuring $70/hour labor rate), DEMAND to see the Job-Time code book. Under the engine section you'll find the job code for "gearcase cover", and it will say if the time includes motor-rotation, pulling exhaust and timing. (if it doesn't it will be a pretty low number, and need to have the other jobs added in.) DON'T let them tell you they don't use job-time code books, either. They have to (They may be online only, but they'll have 'em) to file warranty claims. It gives the dealer a code to submit in the event of a warranty job. I think you're getting hosed, unless you have: A: Accessories that significantly increase the time it takes to do the work (Micron Serpant exhaust comes to mind) B: other legitimate issues they didn't tell you about, but billed you for. I'd be pretty upset, and I would like to see the numbers on this job. The $1001 did cover just labor, or was that parts, too? (Message edited by jos51700 on February 07, 2008) | ||
| Sgthigg |
Really though, What is his legitimate recourse he can take? Is there anything legal or offical through Buell/HD he can do to contest if it is not in accordance with the service manual? I can say it should of, could of, blah blah, they can say should of could of. But when its all over they are charging him. I am pretty sure he feel burned by now. But what can legitimately do? | ||
| Slaughter |
The only thing he has the option of doing is going to the service manual to see if it is recommended to PULL the engine to change plugs, change headers or change the cam timing cover. He could challenge the unnecessary labor - a few hours. Much as it's a pain to get to the rear plug, it's still not necessary to pull the engine... unless the Factory says so in the manual. Ditto for the exhaust. What I do (or don't do) in the garage might NOT be what the factory says to do in the manual. | ||
| Randomchaos |
Isnt there laws stating they have to follow the ammount of hours the book says it should take? I thought for sure there is one in place so dealerships cant back people into a hole like this. | ||
| Slaughter |
Yeah... 13 hours, $1001 is a pretty standard hourly rate ($77) Did they charge you for headers, cam cover, plugs? How did the charges break out on the invoice? (labor/parts) | ||
| Mikej |
Call up a couple of other shops, don't have to even be in the same geographic region. Give them a list of what you want done and ask what their charge and estimated hours would be to do the work. If all the other shops are consistently the same, and if the other shops are way less than the 13 hours labor charge, then take it up with the dealership owner. Always get an estimate before giving them the bike if at all possible. | ||
| Jos51700 |
Service manual has nothing to do with how it's billed out. Only the flat-rate guide (Which is, incidentally, ONLY intended for warranty purposes) has labor times. The factory doesn't care what the techs do or don't do, or how long it takes and as long the job is done right and is safe, it doesn't really matter. Book time is what the factory pays the dealer for a job, and not what the dealer charges for a job. It's also up to the dealer to choose what to bill this guy. The factory doesn't determine how long it should take dealer A to do a job. It's up to Dealer A to be competitive with Dealers B and C. As long as they aren't misrepresenting, (Quote a significantly smaller amount, then bill a significantly larger amount without customer pre-approval), then the dealer can charge whatever. Now, if they care about customer service, reputation, etc (these evil things happened alot more before the internet came along, I can assure you), then they'll work with him to make right. As I stated before, it is entirely impossible to accurately judge the customer or the dealer situation without complete knowledge of the situation, and flat-out errors can occur. (Decimal places, anyone?) It sounds like he's been overcharged, but I'd like to hear the dealer side of things, and see the bill, too. | ||
| Bads1 |
Did you ask for a price for the work?? Or did you tell them to just do it??? 13 hours??? Wow are you walking funny?? | ||
| Buellrider11960 |
did they at least kiss you before they screwed you? i'd talk to the service manager | ||
| No_rice |
well, my shop figured it would take us about 6 hours going basically by the book. it is hard to go exactly by the book in this situation because of over lap. to change the header, rotating the motor is figured in. but to change the cam cover rotating the motor is figured in. so you have to use your best judgment. you cant charge twice to rotate the motor once though. we would charge for the cam cover replacement which involves rotating the motor, and just add a little on to compensate for the header swap. timing should be part of the cam cover replacement. it does call for 1.4 hours to change the plugs though. but the figure more like .4 hours especially since we already would have them out in the open. i would ask them if they are double billing you for rotating the motor. but i also wonder as others have said, did this price include the new parts too? | ||
| Damnut |
you got ripped. I will have to look but I believe that I paid ~$700 for the same thing but with more done. I crashed my bike a while back and when I put it back together I modified some things. I took my damaged header off and bought a new one. I removed my cam cover to get it powder coated and one of the cams popped out in the process. Since the cam popped out I wasn't too comfortable with putting the cam back (no service manual at the time) in so I brought it to the dealer to do. When I brought it to the dealer the bike had no header and cam cover on it. The bike only had 5.4K miles on it so I told them to do the 5K service on it. I also asked for the Pro-Series plugs to be installed and Syn-3 oil to be used. Like I said I have to check but I believe that I paid............. I have $734 in my head for everything. | ||
| Cityxslicker |
The only way it should even come close to that number is if you are installing a set of Race Headers that required fab work. AND you had to purchase the pipe in that price. Like the set from APC underseat exhaust that I have my eye on. | ||
| Damnut |
I just checked my receipt and I paid $708 for everything. I also had them replace my oil gear with the updated one and replace the battery. I supplied the oil drive gear and the plugs. | ||
| Damnut |
Proof.........  | ||
| Clutchless |
Its still wrong that they charged you for contact cleaner, and wtf are they using sportster sport trans fluid in your primary for hmmmm? They would drop your motor for that cam cover service....I think? If memory serves when the cover is removed its standard H-D procedure to take off the rockers and let the pressure off the lifters and cams. I'm not %100 cause I havent taken rockers off mine yet, but I would think you would have to remove it to get the rear cyl rockers free and clear. Shoulda saved on that 5k service man. Change your own fluids or have a trusted buddy hook you up. I know I would. Just and oil change and lube, check your fasteners kinda thing. take it with a grain of salt, I dont know what I'm talking about. (Message edited by clutchless on February 07, 2008) | ||
| No_rice |
most shops charge some kind of shop supplies like contact cleaner, rags, that sort of thing. the sports trans fluid is what used to get run in the buells. the only reason it isnt anymore is because they changed the name to formula + | ||
| Beachbuell |
Take the engine out? WTF! That is scary if they said that. RUN away! | ||
| Damnut |
Clutchless........ I posted that to show that the original poster that he got ripped. Go back and read my first post. I brought the bike in WITHOUT the header and cam cover installed on the bike. I had them do the 5K service since they were going to work on it anyways. While they were in there I had them upgrade the oil pump gear. | ||
| Clutchless |
 | ||
| Ratbuell |
I've tried (with no luck at all) to swap cam covers without unloading the lifters/pushrods. I could have "persuaded" one to fit, but that would have boogered the cam bushings in the cover. Not doing that, not the way I ride... | ||
| Corporatemonkey |
There has to be more to this story. I just can't believe a dealer would attempt to perform a $1000 worth of work with out a phone call first. Most dealers I have been to require you to sign a authorization form with a preset $ amount. I.E. you authorize work up to _____$X______ without notice. I am not saying this didn't of happen, but since I haven't read a follow up post from the OP it seem fishy. | ||
| Bigdepe |
I supplied the headers and cover. Supplies are 49 dollars from them. When I dropped it off I had mentioned that I read the manual and I'd rather save the 4 hours doing it myself and he said "it should take a lot less than that here". |
