| Author | Message | ||
     Dynasport |
I am just curious, is the Buell rating of the 12 of 103 pretty accurate? I saw one magazine rate the horsepower in the 80s. Harley says the V-Rod motor is just over 100 hp. Does the Thunderstorm motor produce almost the same?] | ||
| Barker |
Manufacturers rate HP @ the crank, not the rear wheel. Mags usually publish rear wheel HP. 103 is about right for the power @ the crank for an XB12 lump. | ||
| Aeholton |
I believe the V-Rod motor puts out better power, but I'm not sure it helps since it's a heavy bike. For real HP #'s that I experienced on my Uly see my dyno runs. | ||
| Birdy |
I saw a shoot out and all but the Buell were "As Listed By the Manufactor" and were a bit on the Pony Side I'd say. The Buell was list "As Tested" by the mag on a Dyno. Kind of a poor way of doing things as it made the XB12R look like it was power by mice! | ||
| Dynasport |
It's just interesting to me that people say the Buells can't keep with 600cc sport bike, but they usually produce in the neighborhood of 100hp. If the XB12's are in the same ball park I can't see why they would have any disadvantage. Of course the little 600s rev much higher, but what advantage is that is the HP is not greater? I understand the XB12s might not fair so well against the Japanese liter bikes, but other than that I don't see why they aren't taken more seriously by sport bike riders. That is one reason I am asking. It seemed that maybe Buell was being very optimistic in their HP numbers if in fact the 12s can't run with the 600cc sportbikes. I am sure many here will tell me they can, though. I am just going on what Yamaha and Suzuki riders have said to me. | ||
| Hughlysses |
The latest Japanese 600cc sport bikes are putting out around 100 HP at the rear wheel, so the Buells are at a ~20 HP disadvantage. This shows up in straight-line acceleration and top speed. OTOH, on the street, in the twisties, where torque rules, many an XB12 rider has eaten a much faster (in a straight line) 600cc Japanese sport bike for lunch. | ||
| Ironhead1977 |
The Buell twins have smoother acceleration then the jap 600's. The 600's are a little abrupt on acceleration. | ||
| Birdy |
My take is that the 600 bikes are race bikes with lights and ARE faster on the track in a pros hands. The kids see that and think I can do that. It's like Honda Vtec motors the Kids think they will outrun anything, I have one and it ain't so Joe! They rev faster due the shorter stroke motors. The Buell 1203 is very much over sq. The Buell is better on the "Beat Up, nasty, old back roads" I think because they were built the be a Road Warrior. I know my Stt will get left by my friends 'Busa in a strait line BUT when the road get less than smooth he slows way down or gets (and the bike) beat half to death. All that plastic cost money too! Add to that that mag writers have to play up every new bike that they ride as "The Best Bike Ever" every month and you see where it leads. Buells are different They don't follow the trends but make their own path. A lot of people just don't get it...Sheep! | ||
| Cityxslicker |
Horsepower is a fleeting Mistress to chase. You can have 3 passes on a dyno, not change a thing, and still get 3 different numbers. I think the ft lbs of torgue is a more reliable number of power that that bike is actually producing. And you can bench race all you want, when you get walked by a bike with a rider that knows his machine, it doesnt matter what your spec sheet says. | ||
| Nuerburgringer |
"The Buell twins have smoother acceleration then the jap 600's. The 600's are a little abrupt on acceleration." Huh? | ||
| Imonabuss |
Nuerburg, For interpretation, this is also known as 600's will spit you on your a** if you turn on the power in a corner with questionable traction. That's real world power delivery of the Buell versus track power of the 600. I ordered an 1125R because I will have both! Yippee! But I'd still take an XB over a 600 on twisty backroads. | ||
| Ds_tiger |
I have had Jap bikes, Whop bikes and chink bikes- heck even limey bikes - but never a Jew bike or a spick bike- My merican bike is way bedder than tem all. Honestly- stop with the Jap references- I know- Pearl Harbor, etc- come on here your Buell is assembeled in USA, BUT is made in China (wheels) Japan ( gauges, brakes suspension)etc etc- motor only Jesus PEOPLE ..... | ||
| Brumbear |
I,m no Rossi but I love when this fat old man just kicks hell out of some snot noser poser on the backroads. I don't care to much if they get there faster in a straight line thats not real fun for me anyhow. Hear in old NJ you usually aint getting to far in a straight line anyway the roads are overcrowded and if there isn't construction or really bad road conditions there is always the MAN BUELL MY MACHINE UBER CHOICE | ||
| Evil_twin |
While I can understand most, if not all of the points made by my preceeding members, I stand at a different position. I like sportbikes. I, also, like power. But, I am the offspring of an old school biker. My old man used to torture old Triumph Bonnies in the basement until something beautiful would come of it. Uncles that would do the same with old H-D's... When it came time for me to buy a new bike, my decision was clear. I had owned enough basketcase UJM's that I had rebuilt into something I could tolerate. I wanted something that was me. I wanted sporty and I wanted a twin. The eVil Twin is the best of both worlds in my opinion. Yes, horse power at the rear tire is lower. But, power in inadequate hands is useless. My lil eVil Twin makes all of 73 horsepower at the rear tire. I have a friend that I ride with that rides a '99 ZX9R. 152 RWHP. I am running less than half the Hp that he is. Yet, he can't keep up with me on anything but the long straights. For one, he is just not as "skilled" (I will use that term loosely) as I am behind the bars. And two, he just doesn't have the testicular fortitude it sometimes takes to harness the kind of powerful bike he has built. I guess my long ranting point is, again, power is under rated, so to speak, in the hands of someone that doesn't know how to use it. Big numbers may sell most bikes, but I don't believe they sell Buells. In the hands of a good rider, during a true test ride, that point is made clear. (I, also, believe that sportbike rag writers are a little biased. But, that is a subject that can be discussed later.) Dynasport, if you are still trying to decide whether or not you want a Buell or a Sportbike to add to your stable, my only advice is to test ride as many as you can. Try out the 600's, try the 1000's and try a Buell. I personally don't believe that anyone out there is making a bad motorcycle. Take a look at what aspects of riding you enjoy most. Speed, twisties, rural backroads, so on and so forth. You are the only one that can make that decision for you. We leave it in your hands... Rich  | ||
| Diablobrian |
Most people are not intending a racial slur when they refer to a japanese bike as a "jap bike" it is simply short hand, like saying or typing U.S. instead of United States. Would "rice rocket"/"pasta rocket" be offensive? DS_Tiger: I'm being serious here, I'm not sure how this can be addressed because I can assure you that many people would be stunned if told that they were acting like biggots when they call a japanese motorcycle a "Jap bike". Even when the term "Jap crap" is thrown out there it is derogatory towards the machine, not towards the rider, or even the bike's designer! | ||
| Typeone |
to give some more 'real world' input, i've had similar dyno results to Aeholtons. a few of my runs posted in the following link: typeone 05XB12S dyno runs | ||
| Dynasport |
DsTiger wrote: I have had Jap bikes, Whop bikes and chink bikes- heck even limey bikes - but never a Jew bike or a spick bike- My merican bike is way bedder than tem all. Honestly- stop with the Jap references- I know- Pearl Harbor, etc- come on here your Buell is assembeled in USA, BUT is made in China (wheels) Japan ( gauges, brakes suspension)etc etc- motor only Jesus PEOPLE ..... I went back and read the entire thread, and unless I missed it no one used the term Jap Bike in the entire thread until ds_tiger posted. The term jap 600 was used, but I don't think it was meant to be disparaging to a race or nationality of people. I agree that it was just shorthand, which is normal on the web. So, if you want to preach against racism, I will support you. But find the racism first. I don't think there was any here. Back to my original thought, so 80-something is more realistic for a 12 and the 600cc sportbikes do produce more top end horsepower, though less torque, which can impact real world rideability. None of this probably matters to me anyway. As a long time cruiser/standard rider I am sure I don't have the riding skill to put either one to its full potential. | ||
| Sslowmo |
my riding on my xb12r is done best, against "jap" bikes ducs and beemers, when the road is very tight. 2nd and third gear turns. i can creep up there hindend like there was know tomorrow but as soon as that strait line appears "whoop there it is". and i'm mainly talking about a fz1. the 600 i rode at laguna seca and sears point was the most fun above 10,000rpm. thats where the bike comes to life and it pulls the my xb. fun stuff no matter what you ride. LETS RIDE!!!!! | ||
| Buelldyno_guy |
Engine or crank HP is measured at the crank, using a some type of load control dyno. These runs are normally accomplished in a dyno room at the factory in their engine shop. Magazines and Dyno Tuners are interested in how the bike is operating or performing in the real world. So we measure it at the rear wheel, sometimes with or without a load control brake. But here is where all dyno's are born created equal, some calculate HP and Torque, others measure it. Our shop (JT&S Performance) purchased a Land & Sea just for that reason. I recently ran a Go Kart and over a two hour period it would repeat within 0.250 HP and 0.100 Torque. ... Terry | ||
| Akbuell |
Cycle World's Kevin Cameron (who seems knowledgeable about these sorts of things) talks about a 15%ish power loss between the crank and the rear tire contact patch, so a rear wheel HP of the low to mid eightys would be about right for 100 crank HP. The real world of street riding (for me, anyway) is in the 50-90MPH range, and an in-line four 600CC sportbike, in the hands of an equally skilled rider, would probably get away from me 10 times out of 10. It will be much easier for me to maintain a respectable pace, simply rolling the throttle on and off, with much less shifting, clutching, ect. | ||
| No_rice |
I have had Jap bikes, Whop bikes and chink bikes- heck even limey bikes - but never a Jew bike or a spick bike- My merican bike is way bedder than tem all. Honestly- stop with the Jap references- I know- Pearl Harbor, etc- come on here your Buell is assembeled in USA, BUT is made in China (wheels) Japan ( gauges, brakes suspension)etc etc- motor only Jesus PEOPLE ..... geezus h christ does it ever stop. i am not PC i wont be PC and i couldn't care less. i enjoy my life not stressing about dumb crap like that. i have had and ridden alot of jap crap. i may get another one some day. and it will still be a jap bike 20 years from now. it is JAPANESE. hell i have even ridden a spick bike. it was a gold plated schwin lowered with white walls and a white banana seat. kinda hard to pedal though. they want to hit the ground all the time. what the hell does pearl harbor have to do with what a motorcycles is called? there is so much wrong with the world today, and half of it stems from the fact that its not PC to kick your kids ass when they royally screw up anymore. regardless right now me and my honkey bikes and my non PC self will be just fine. | ||
| Eicas |
Horsepower is fun, but in the real world a "good" rider on a slow bike will beat a "poor" rider on the faster bike. The exception is "dumb" or "inexperienced" rider on a fast bike who may just kill himself to prove a point. If both riders and bikes are equal, you get into type of tires, state of engine tune, etc. Bottom line for me is that my XB12 is one hell of lot faster than I am or ever will be, so horsepower makes no difference. I need to work on my riding skills and not worry about total power. My other bike is a "little" Honda VFR800 that is probably faster than the Buell, but has gotten beat by "kids" braver than me riding a 600, but I ride the Buell the most now since it is more fun. | ||
| Pwnzor |
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| Slaughter |
This apples-and-oranges comparison always gets a bit tiring. Two RADICALLY different bikes with RADICALLY different audiences. Classical Music? Blues? Which one is better? Sushi or steak, which is better? Blue or red, which is a better color? Blonde, brunette, redhead? I-4 (600) waterpumper or V-2 aircooler, which is better? If you can answer one, you can answer them all and deserve to have your own religion. | ||
| Ridrx |
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| Ironhead1977 |
A few definitions of short cuts so we can be pc. 1)jap bike = yamaha, suzuki,kawasaki,honda 2)rice rocket=yamaha, suzuki,kawasaki,honda 3)crotch rocket=yamaha, suzuki,kawasaki,honda 4)water buffalo= 1970's water cooled suzuki 5)beemer=bmw 6)limer= triumph,bsa,norton,ariel 7)The one that turns me on= Harley,Buell,Victory,Indian and a girl named Betty- sometimes not in that order This is what I came up with on short notice. I am sure there is more. | ||
| Metalstorm |
I have had Jap bikes, Whop bikes and chink bikes- heck even limey bikes - but never a Jew bike or a spick bike- My merican bike is way bedder than tem all. As an Italian I find the word whop offensive. It's WOP, not WHOP.  Get it right damnit!  I like the sound of Pasta Rockets & Olive Burners | ||
| Bonjoxb12s |
Dyna, where does Harley advertise the v-rod as a 100 hp bike? Any literature I've ever read on the newer V-Rods claim a 120 hp engine..... just an fyi | ||
| Birdy |
So if I buy a Royal Enfield is it a Curry Rocket now that they're made in India? | ||
| Clutchless |
Bonjoxb, I think he might has seen the different motors that have popped up since the v-rod birth. I dunno the low bore numbers but the big bore with the 120hp ticket is the 1250cc bore. I think it's the same bore as the one with the laced wheel on the front end, being as how that "supposed" to be a destroyer with street-legal papers. anyways... v-rod low bore (basic A or B model v-rod from 2001-2003) = 100 crank hp v-rod 1250 bore (from screamin eagle v-rod) = that new 120 hp they claim. I "think" but I'm not at work in front of my stack of manuals so I admit, I am a bit forgetful. |
