| Author | Message | ||
     Xb9 |
I was riding today in SE Ohio, turned over 18,000 miles. Got on the slab for the last 70 miles home, all was fine. Get off the freeway, stop at the light, and when I take off, hummm.... thought I caught a false neutral when I shifted to 2nd, try again....third gear. Now, where 2nd gear should be is a neutral. Seems like all of a sudden I don't have 2nd gear! Know if I screw around enough and hunt for it, I can get it to go into 2nd if i'm lucky. Any ideas?? It happened with no warning, the tranny worked fine up until I took off from the light. I'm thinking something in the shift mechanism, but I don't have any experience with these transmissions. | ||
| Prof_stack |
XB9, was the tranny problem with 2nd gear related to the motor being hot? Did the tranny seem normal when the bike was cold? What fluid are you using in the primary? Or maybe all your 2nd gear wheelies caught up with you?  | ||
| Blake |
XB9, Sounds like a shifter mechanism problem that will require removal of the primary cover at minimum. Others here are far more knowledgeable on the subject than I. | ||
| Noface |
On the XB's I think it's probably more than opening the primary. Don'tcha have to split the cases on the XB's to do tranny work? Seems I read that somewhere... Jody S. | ||
| Xb9 |
You have to split the cases, per the manual. No cartridge. Hot or cold, it doesn't matter. I've been using the HD sport-trans, although I did run RP15w40 synth for a time a while back; no problems with operation but was nervous about it so I went back to the sporttrans. I haven't done wheelies lately with the bike, except when I first got it, I did a few  Most of my miles are on the back roads of SE Ohio & WV, where you are using the gearbox alot. It's a pretty demanding environment to ride in, IMO as CLOSE to racing conditions on the street as you can get. Looks like I will be putting an order in to Kent-Moore for some special tools, I'll post when I find the root of the problem. I'm out of warranty. Is the recommended fluid for the trans now the HD synth3, or is it still the sport-trans? | ||
| Blake |
The shifter pawl is not inside the transmission, neither is the primary tensioner or the clutch adjustment mechanism. Any of those mechanisms could be causing the problem. I clearly stated that XB9's problem would "require removal of the primary cover at minimum." If the problem is inside the transmission, then yes, disassembly of the engine cases will be necessary. I certainly would check out the easy stuff first. | ||
| Ftd |
Ockham's Razor: ALWAYS do the simplest things first!! http://www.tiscali.co.uk/reference/dictionaries/difficultwords/data/d0009032.htm l | ||
| Steveford |
According to a visiting customer who suffered gearbox difficulty, the very early XB9 Buells came with a slightly different shifter pawl than the later (03) ones. I can't say for sure as I'm not at work to see if the number has been superceeded but I can say that either SportTrans or Syn3 is considered suitable by H-D. | ||
| Xb9 |
I will definetly be looking at the easy things before tearing into the engine. That is the last thing I want to do. I have worked on many motorcycle engines/transmissions, just not any HD/Buell ones. Like Darthane said, I am old. With that comes too much experience sometimes. If the pawl is the problem, and I am two months out of warranty, do I have any recourse? Can anyone please verify that there in fact was a change? Court? | ||
| Blake |
If it is just the pawl, it won't be worth bothering over. But it never hurts to make a plea to customer service for some consideration. | ||
| Xb9 |
Your right Blake, not worth the hassle. Thanks to everyone for your help. Steveford, could you check to see if the shifter shaft assy. (pawl) has been superceded and post here with part numbers Monday? That would be greatly appreciated. | ||
| Steveford |
Xb9, Sorry to be so slow in responding but I've been kept hopping. The shifter cam assembly was 33634-02 and has been superceeded to 33634-02A. This might be the culprit - hope this helps. Before you do anything more involved, sometimes just a simple change to a different brand/type of oil will do the trick. | ||
| Xb9 |
Thanks Steveford, your information helps tremendously. Update: I have ruled out all the simple things & the shifter pawl is not the problem (the symptoms are the same if I remove the pawl and turn the shifter cam assy.to the 2nd gear detent manually)so the problem is most likely with the cam assy. or the 1st/2nd shifter fork. Last night I removed the engine from the frame and will be tearing it down to split the cases in the the next day or two. One comment I have so far is the ease of removing the engine surprised me. It's a bit of work, don't get me wrong, but the service manual gives a very good step by step process to do things in an organized, orderly manner. Kudos to the technical writers at Buell involved with writing the manual!! | ||
| Blake |
Your positive attitude is most amazing. | ||
| Bud |
Xb9, Perhaps a strange idea, But with your mileage, maybe some magazine’s have a interest in a duration test of a XB you are taking the hole engine apart !, why not measure al the parts and compare it to the wear limit ?? and it’s little job when waiting fore new parts. I now fore sure that I’m gonna measure every thing, when I take my engine apart this winter. hoping that some magazine’s over here find it a nice idea as well. And going to sponsor me  Gr,m | ||
| Xb9 |
Bud, I would be open to that! The engine has run flawlessly, does not use oil, it's been great. And no sense in getting bent out of shape about it, as the miles I have put on this thing are not typical of the average owner - they have been very hard miles. I am very curious to see exactly what went wrong though. Here's some pics | ||
| Xb9 |
try again..  Not much left to it once you get the engine out...  the mill...... | ||
| Blake |
XB9, Cool photos. But that precarious looking setup is making me nervous tighten a tie wrap or something around the front brake lever and hand grip; a little extra stability is a good thing. | ||
| Blake |
BTW, did you check to see if Buell would be willing to cover the repair? I know it's out of warranty, but with the new enclosed tranny, they might be willing to cover such an involved operation. | ||
| Xb9 |
Well, I found the problem (just) short of splitting the cases. There is a retention collar on the countershaft of the transmission that is fastened with a Torx screw. The torx screw had loosened and allowed the transmission countershaft to shift to the right enough that second gear would no longer engage. By looking at it you would never know it was loose, but when I put a Torx bit on it to remove it and there was no resistance it was obvious. Once tightened, 2nd gear is engaging just fine. Funny, no trace of Loctite on the bolt, unlike just about everything else on the bike. The manual calls for it on assembly. My luck. On the bright side, at least it did not grenade on me.  | ||
| Xb9 |
Blake, it is sturdier than it looks. The frame is tied with heavy rope to the garage rafter; it won't go anywhere, unless my wife runs into it with the car. That's my hillbilly engineering showing | ||
| Blake |
XB9, That is welcome news indeed. So the root cause failure analysis reveals that an assembler failed to use a screw with thread locking compound? That type of failure is simply inexcusable! From a quality management perspective, I'd rather see a broken part due to inferior/defective material. But a simple friggin' loose screw! Something so easily avoided is inexcusable, especially on such a critical moving part. I'm getting a sinking feeling wrt the quality organization at HD.  Some interesting scenarios wrt the corrective action... Firstly, Buell and HD NEED to know about this failure. Secondly, Buell and HD NEED to act decisively to prevent another such failure anywhere on any bike they build. Here's the interesting parts... 1. How does Buell prevent recurrence of that same inferior quality problem? I'm hoping they already have via fasteners precoated with loctite compound. Every fastener should be precoated with the applicable loctite compound. In addition, take some time to educate everyone on the line concerning such things... not bitch, not chastise, EDUCATE/ENLIGHTEN/EMPOWER. I bet they already have. That hopefully is a first run production flaw, but since it appears no different than the same part in prior model Buells/Sportsters, I am not so sure. Again, here comes that sinking feeling. If the part comes from a vendor (HD), then Buell quality personnel should be all over them about this issue. This type of thing cannot be allowed to go unaddressed or unresolved. Too many times in corporate goings on, these things are ignored. Total quality, it ain't a gimmick, and it works. Accept nothing short of excellence. 2. Should Buell advise all service managers of the potential for such a failure? Hmmmm... with one such case... maybe not. If another such case shows up, ABSOLUTELY! In closing... My biggest worry would be that there is no one below Mr. Buell himself who sees this type of failure as a VERY serious problem. Without a rigorously tenacious quality organization, this kind of problem will NEVER cease plaguing a manufacturer of complex machinery. In the mass market world of commercial products, complacency wrt such a poor/inferior level of quality is darn near a death sentence. XB9, Would you be willing to write a letter to Buell Customer Service stating your concerns on this issue? I'd really, really like to see the reaction you get. If anyone can provide contact info for the manager of Buell's quality organization, I'd be most grateful. | ||
| Blake |
One more comment... XB9's findings make you wonder about the guy's (Maverick of ATC/SacBORG) XB9S that when visiting Daytona bike week got locked in 5th gear.  | ||
| Court |
I'd like a copy of that letter WITH the photos and the detailed explanation. | ||
| Xb9 |
Blake, I got that same sinking feeling when I found the loose bolt. In a way I was relieved that I had found the root cause and that it was a simple fix, but then again It makes me feel sick for all the trouble I've gone through to deal with it, something that should have never happened. I have sent an email to the dealer that sold me the motorcycle, and copied the HD area service manager. I'll see what the response is, but in the mean time, I need a friggin gasket kit to get this thing back on the road. I want to ride it, not work on it. | ||
| Reepicheep |
Thanks for all the followup XB9... Sorry if I am stating something painfully obvious, but I assume that the failure was such that it could have been fixed in an afternoon with the engine on the bike if (big IF) you had known going into it what went wrong.. Hey, I guess the only thing worse then pulling the engine only to find a loose bolt was the source of your transmission problems, would be to pull the engine and split the cases to find something else... If I were you, I would be really tempted to ship that engine to Aaron or Pammy while it is out anyway... | ||
| Mikej |
"Funny, no trace of Loctite on the bolt, unlike just about everything else on the bike." And right about now a telephone is ringing on Capital Drive, and an email is being read on Juneau. | ||
| Xb9 |
Mikej, there is no doubt about the phones. Our man Court is involved Reepicheep, I know; if, if, if...... do I need to say more? | ||
| Blake |
XB9, Don't beat yourself up about it. Most likely, we all would have done the same thing. Reep, If the thing had a carburetor it would be a no-brainer to go ahead and do a quality performance top end upgrade. When is someone going to come up with a well sorted carburetor kit for the XB9's? Don't answer... that's another topic! ![:]](http://www.badweatherbikers.com/buell/clipart/proud.gif) | ||
| Xb9 |
Thanks Blake, you can't change the past, but you can shape the future. |
