| Author |
Message |
    
Billybob
| | Posted on Thursday, October 11, 2007 - 02:18 pm: | 
|
my xb9 has never pinged on 93 oct gas |
Cyclonedon
| | Posted on Thursday, October 11, 2007 - 06:52 pm: |
|
I heard a rumor that the sky is falling, but I've been too busy to check it out! |
Buellshyter
| | Posted on Saturday, October 13, 2007 - 08:35 pm: |
|
I heard a rumor that the sky is falling, but I've been too busy to check it out!
Actually, it's the dollar |
Buellinachinashop
| | Posted on Saturday, October 13, 2007 - 09:16 pm: |
|
"Actually, it's the dollar"
Try again, its Harley's stock. |
Dmhines
| | Posted on Saturday, October 13, 2007 - 09:57 pm: |
|
Actually manufacturers only need to supply parts for the length of the factory warranty ... |
Court
| | Posted on Sunday, October 14, 2007 - 05:53 am: |
|
>>>Actually manufacturers only need to supply parts for the length of the factory warranty ...
I'm eagerly waiting for someone to tell me the source of this information.
I'd submit that most is urban legend. |
Ducxl
| | Posted on Sunday, October 14, 2007 - 06:23 am: |
|
Wow,i used to believe parts had to be supplied for 7 years afterward.I'm very surprised it's not fact....................Lot's of old Yugos' around.
At least BMW boasts of making ALL of their parts available back to 1923 |
Prof_stack
| | Posted on Sunday, October 14, 2007 - 08:56 pm: |
|
The folks at Royal Enfield say that when they stop importing the current Classic model they will have parts available for 7 years.
Why seven? There must have been a mandate sometime to that effect. |
Rubberdown
| | Posted on Sunday, October 14, 2007 - 09:14 pm: |
|
I hope they continue evolving and improving the air cooled line but I'm not really getting that impression from what I read. I hope the air cooled line doesn't just die on the vine. |
Hisxb
| | Posted on Monday, October 15, 2007 - 02:46 pm: |
|
I agree with 4cammer...Long live the HD Buells and where is my 25th Aniv White lightning based on the XBRR with a cassette style 6 speed tranny for the rest of us. The 1125 might have got my attention if it were a bike like the famed "Desmodici RR".
If I get off my "LUMP" for any bike it would be that. |
Mikef5000
| | Posted on Monday, October 15, 2007 - 04:33 pm: |
|
I hope they continue evolving and improving the air cooled line but I'm not really getting that impression from what I read.
But all the Buell press releases and Annony posts say they love the aircooled line and will continue it.
I tend to believe Buell people before believing magazines and internet rumors. |
Coal400
| | Posted on Monday, October 15, 2007 - 05:58 pm: |
|
Erik has stated several times that the air cooled offering is staying. He even addressed the misconceptions of emissions on the air cooled power-plant. |
Rubberdown
| | Posted on Monday, October 15, 2007 - 06:28 pm: |
|
I glad Buell is intending on keeping in the air-cooled game. I'm looking for an S1 styled, XB handling, no fan, XBRR engined street bike from Buell in the future. Yee Haaa! |
Buellinachinashop
| | Posted on Monday, October 15, 2007 - 07:23 pm: |
|
I have a feeling that by 2010 the only air cooled offering will be the Blast. |
46champ
| | Posted on Monday, October 15, 2007 - 10:49 pm: |
|
As long as enough people buy the aircooled bikes each year they will keep building them. The tooling is paid for the percent of profit has too be high. I won't believe they would quite building them the way Douglas Aircraft stopped building DC-8's. |
Cityxslicker
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 17, 2007 - 01:33 pm: |
|
Believe they will quit building them as VW has quit building them. The air head water head debate in that camp is very heated, everyone has their favorite and their reasons for it. But look to see the current air cooled VW offering.... there isnt. So 30 years ago when the water cooled Rabbit (GTI) came out, it was the death knell for the beetle and pancake motors. I suspect that in 30 years we will see similar results from Buell ;) (that is my prediction of 30 more years of Buell btw) |
Jaimec
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 17, 2007 - 05:20 pm: |
|
BMW thought they could replace the air-cooled boxer engine with the water cooled K engine, and look where they are now... |
Rubberdown
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 17, 2007 - 05:23 pm: |
|
Yeah, and look where I am now .... with an HP2 and an R1200S. Air cooled still rocks! |
Luxor
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 17, 2007 - 05:32 pm: |
|
Cityx wrote"Believe they will quit building them as VW has quit building them. The air head water head debate in that camp is very heated, everyone has their favorite and their reasons for it. But look to see the current air cooled VW offering.... there isnt."
Thank God people still love air cooled VWs. The research never stopped, so now we have 7 sec qtr mile air cooled bugs. Imagine if VW actually kept evolving them, where would they be today. I think quite successful. But, alas, it's always easier to follow the pack by producing generic small displacement water cooled engines.
If Buell does dump the lump in the future there will be no issue at all. So many parts will still be available, and true enthusiasts that it will live on forever.
But, back to the present. I bet we still have air cooled Buells in 10 years. I know I'll still have at least 2 air cooled Buells in ten years, new or not. |
Wazza
| | Posted on Monday, October 22, 2007 - 05:05 am: |
|
XB12s was discontinued last year here.
Besides the XB12Ss all other XB based models are now discontinued in Australia for 08. |
Blublak
| | Posted on Monday, October 22, 2007 - 02:52 pm: |
|
Hey Wazza.. According to the Australian Buell Web site, (they are still showing '07s) ..
You guys now have the XB12ss, XB12stt, XB9sx, XB12X, XB12r and XB9r. No Blast. .. For some reason I can't see cutting the line any shorter, I mean, pulling all the XBs out leaves only the 1125r and that can't possibly cover all the potential sales out your way.
I'd wait and see on the '08 line. I mean, here in the US, we're looking at continuation of the original XBs', even though we've lost the 9R (damn) and probably will loose a few others. I know it's all going to come down to what's selling, but who would risk loosing all that potential to become a one model dealer?
Just my $.02 worth. |
Wazza
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 23, 2007 - 03:55 am: |
|
The advise I received from Buell Australian staff was all XB models besides the XB12Ss long are now discontinued. The XB12S was already discontinued and this now extends to the rest of the range. A limited number of XB12Ss bikes will be available in '08 spec the other models are all still available in '07 spec but only with what stock currently is in the country and as long as that stock lasts and then no more.
This isn't a rumor, the latest Buell sales book for Australia confirms the same. |
Blake
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 23, 2007 - 11:52 am: |
|
Bummer for Australia. 
No '08 Ulysses?! I'm skeptical of that. |
Spiderman
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 23, 2007 - 12:04 pm: |
|
SOYLENT GREEN IS PEOPLE!! |
Azxb9r
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 23, 2007 - 04:57 pm: |
|
The death knell for air cooled engines in the automotive world was increasing emission restrictions. Engine temp. is easier to control on water cooled engines than on air cooled. More stable engine temps. makes for more precise fuel management, which makes for lower emissions. With emiss. regs. increasing on motorcycles, we could see fewer air cooled offerings in the future. I hope not though. |
Glitch
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 23, 2007 - 05:13 pm: |
|
With a catalytic converter a water cooled engine meets epa standards, the air cooled XB doesn't need one. |
Anonymous
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 23, 2007 - 06:03 pm: |
|
Wazza,
Whoever is giving you such a sales book is out of their mind. The XB's are certainly still available in Australia. Maybe it's a dealer who is no longer going to be selling them, but they are certainly homologated and will be there.
And as Glitch said, it's actually easier to get an air-cooled through emissions than a water cooled engine. That's a fact. Proof is California for Buell in '08 where only the 1125R had to have a catalyst. |
Diablobrian
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 23, 2007 - 10:03 pm: |
|
Air cooled motors come up to temp MUCH faster than the water cooled alternative and the time between start and reaching
operating temp is where emissions are at their worst. This is proven fact.
The idea that water cooled motors are "greener" than air cooled is based on partial knowledge and the assumption that
air cooled motors require much looser tolerances to deal with higher operating temperatures. While true, expansion quickly
takes up the slack when the motor is running and puts the two types of motor on fairly even footing where tolerances
are concerned. The higher temps of the air cooled motor allow more complete combustion, hence no need for a
catalytic converter even on the 2008 spec air cooled Buells in the People's Republik of Kalifornia where they have
the toughest emissions standards in the US and maybe even the world. As Anony said the 1125r couldn't make that
standard without the catalytic converter. |
Mtg
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 24, 2007 - 01:34 am: |
|
The faster warm-up of an air cooled engine makes sense about reducing emissions.
However, Brian, if you're saying a water cooled engine would run more efficient at a higher temp, why wouldn't the manufacturer just put a thermostat in that opens at a higher temp? Then, the air cooled engine's advantage would only be warming up faster as I guess it has less thermal mass.
Does the lower rpm operating range of the air cooled engine come into play as the XB just plain uses less fuel than an 1125R, and hence produces less total pollution?
If I can blow the dust off the memory cells from my IC engines class....a catalyzer works only close to stoichiometric A/F ratio. And, the main purpose, if I remember correctly, is to turn NOx into N2 and O2 and CO and O2 into CO2. Wikipedia is claiming it also reduces unburned HC, but that's not what I remember my professor saying. I could be wrong though.
If the engine runs hotter, you have more NOx, which is bad. So, it would seem that a hotter running air cooled engine would be harder to pass emissions from that view.
Obviously I don't know the whole picture.
Anony? What are the typical operating temps of the XB engines vs the Helicon? Or, is there anything other than faster warm up that makes an air cooled engine easier to pass emissions? |
Anonymous
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 24, 2007 - 09:31 am: |
|
Diablo is right, but there is more to it than that, but it is way to complex to discuss here, actually. Basically, it is the result of intensive study into the way combustion happens in our air-cooled motors, and taking advantage of this knowledge. The facts are quite different than what people think. It is the completeness of the burn that counts most. The operating temperature of the engine is far below any temperature related to combustion, BTW, to put a little light on that old story. And yes, the fact that the air-cooleds get great fuel mileage is related as well. |
Diablobrian
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 24, 2007 - 12:32 pm: |
|
Bingo! The study of how all this works is not something anyone could communicate in a forum like this
without more time than any of us have to devote to it.
I was just trying to bring the fact that half-truths, mis-information and partial knowledge
are leading many people to a false conclusion.
If someone really wants to understand how internal combustion motors (actually engines) work,
they'll need a lot of class room time to get the fundamentals down. |
Azxb9r
| | Posted on Friday, October 26, 2007 - 02:11 am: |
|
In my previous post I stated that engine temp. is easier to control on a water cooled engine, I made no mention of warm up time. It is true that the highest emission levels occur after a cold start during the "warm-up" period. That is why heated O2 sensors have been used for several years now. Todays cars go into closed loop fuel control very quickly, you can get "clean" tailpipe readings within 30 seconds of a cold start.
After 25+ yrs. as an auto tech, I have seen the changes that tighter emission regulations have brought on the auto industry. I was merely speculating that the motorcycle industry could follow a similar path.
As Mtg mentioned, higher combustion temps. cause higher NOX levels. In the past, motorcycles were not tested for NOX... but they are now. In 2010 the limit for NOX will be lowered to just over half of the current limit. The fact that we are seeing cats on bikes now, combined with tightening emiss. regs. could be an indication that change is on its way. While the xb was able to comply without needing a cat, not all air cooled bikes were so lucky. Standard equipment on a Ducati Multistrada now includes a cat.
Getting an internal combustion engine to pass an emissions test can be a delicate (and frustrating) balancing act. |
|
