| Author | Message | ||
     Tjp |
I finally had a chance to ride a 12S Lightning at the Buell Demo Days at Alef's H-D in Wichita, Ks. Great event. Nice people. I think Buell has some really good things going. I like his way of thinking. I've been researching this bike for a few months, and drooling over my screen saver of it every day. I realize I need to spend more time on one, though. A 15-minute guided ride is not enough to make an honest decision about this bike. At least, not to the extent of whether I will buy one or not. So after my first ride, without fear of being flamed, I can honestly say I was a little disappointed when I rode it. I was hoping the torque and uniquely balanced features would make up for the lower impact of performance compared to sport, but I don't know that it completely does for me. The motor, although torquey and good at about any RPM, felt sluggish. I'm used to putting a bike "on the pipe" and having that instant snap feel. And, although fun, the vibrations didn't totally agree with me. The throttle seemed to lack that instant response feel. Not only in power, but just in reaction time. I'd hit the throttle, and it would hesitate before revving. Not being able to get out of the wind is somewhat annoying, but I don't take long trips. Probably not a real factor. Shifting was clunky, and not precise, although I never missed a gear it just felt unrefined. Other than these things. The bike is great. Don't get me wrong. The torque is great. Down low power, not having to worry so much about gearing, is nice. A more relaxing ride. The balance was good and confidence inspiring. I really want to get one in the corners, for real. Faster than 30 mph. Riding position is more comfortable than sport, although I never had much troubles other than the occasional hand going to sleep. Looks are amazing. Love the street fighter/naked look. BIG plus here. Less maintenance?? If it was cared for before I got it. Maybe the race kit will cure some of these issues I have with the bike. Maybe a real ride. I dunno. So after all is said, I can honestly say, "I am still a Buell motorcycle fan." I may just wait until the Rotax migrates over to the Lightning before I can say, "I'm a Buell motorcycle owner." My $.02 Tye | ||
| Djkaplan |
If you didn't ride a Buell in some corners, you haven't really test ridden one. | ||
| Skully |
Hello Tye, Thanks for giving your honest opinion. I do have a few questions though. How long did you ride, what speeds did you achieve, did you ride in any twisty bits, and what are you comparing the Buell to? Keith | ||
| Macbuell |
The way you describe the hesitation and throttle response makes me wonder is the TPS was set correctly. When I twist the throttle on my 12R my arms are practically ripped out of their sockets. Of course, I have never ridden a litre bike so I can't compare the sensation to those bid bikes. | ||
| Tjp |
Thanks for your comments, guys. I'm hoping for a longer, more intense ride on one of these before making a final decision. I think the bikes are great, just so nobody misunderstands me, but I don't know if they are for me. I'm trying to make that decision and your input only helps. The ride we took was guided, front and rear watchers. We only rode for about 15 minutes, but the bikes were already warm from the rides before. We ranged 10-70 mph, in town and highway with some sweeping curves. Not anything exciting, but I did fall back a few times at intersections, which gave me chances to get on it about 2/3 throttle. Like I said before, not really a REAL ride, but most of the complaints I observed would not change with a longer or more aggressive ride. Only the cornering. Tye | ||
| Mjhzn6 |
I agree with the others. I have a lot of experience on four cylinders, 600's and 1000's. You cant compare these bikes on power. I have a 12s that I have only had for a few weeks now. I felt the same way, and still do. All the people I ride with are on liter bikes. They talk about how slow my bike is and I say yeah youre right. It is slow, but now lets go hit some curvy roads. That is what this bike is made for. I let my friends ride and I make sure to tell them to not even pay attention to how the power feels. Just ride it in the corners. I love it. Who really need 170 + horsepower on the street anyway. Im glad you can still say you like the bike though. I cant wait to see how the new 1125 is either. Im not mad at ya, just my $.02. (Message edited by mjhzn6 on September 18, 2007) | ||
| Tjp |
Yeah, I absolutely love the bike still. I love the look, and love the attitude it has. Comparing it to a sport bike is like comparing a Corvette to a Porsche, in terms of performance and feel. The Corvette is blunt-brute power, and the Porsche is tight and refined. They are just two totally different machines. The negatives were just those I noticed in comparison to the liters, what I'm used to. I'm also comparing to a Triumph Sprint ST1050. I don't know that I've felt a more smooth and precise gear box. I don't need all the power of a liter anymore, and rarely go over 100 mph, but it's nice to have that thrill when you want it. I wish I had access to one to take a better ride. One with a race kit installed would be nice. I may still need to wait for the Rotax, but this may be all it takes for me to decide. Tye | ||
| Ironhead1977 |
A dealer demo is to tame. You need to hit Daytona or somewhere the boys from the Buell factory are giving demos. These guys know how to ride and ride hard. If you ride with them you will know then that a Buell is bad to the bone even without a Rotax. | ||
| 1324 |
I agree with you on two points. The biggest issues in my mind were the throttle response and tranny...in that order. I'm told a large part of the throttle response issue is the DDFI, and the tranny, well, it's a HD really. A good dyno tune, freer intake and exhaust will help throttle response, but from what I've seen/read/been told, you won't get that I4 or Duc throttle response unless you go carbed...and even then, you still have alot of reciprocating mass to contend with and physics are hard to defy. All that being said, I LOVE my Buell! | ||
| Bikertrash05 |
...and even then, you still have alot of reciprocating mass to contend with and physics are hard to defy. An XBRR "pork chop" flywheel would help.  | ||
| Metalstorm |
Even if it turns out to not be the bike for you, it is still cool that you're willing to find out for sure & not dismiss it after just a short mild ride. As much as I love Buells, I would never try to push the brand on anyone. It is of the utmost importance to find the right bike for you regardless of brand. | ||
| Tjp |
I really appreciate you guys comments. I have noticed, unlike some sport sites, the members on Buell forums tend to be pretty nice/helpful people. This is one of the reasons why I ride a KTM for dirt. Good people there, too. Hate takes too much energy. I may try to pick up an inexpensive '03 this winter and try it out. From what I understand the models up through '07 didn't change that much, and they are very reliable even back this far. Hopefully I can find one with the race kit installed, since they are not available any longer, from what I understand. Tye | ||
| Metalstorm |
A few things need to be addressed on the 03 models. 1. the belt is weak. The best fix is to change the 03 belt set up to the 04+ set up. This requires changing the belt, the sprockets and the belt guards. 2. 03 only had the 984cc and the inner airbox cover is flat. It does not have the inverted nipple of the XB12 cover (and 05+ XB9 cover as well). Changing the inner cover to the inverted nipple type makes the 03 smoother, better and perhaps a couple more ponies are gained. 3. Wheel bearings. There was a recall on the 03 bearings. If they're black they need to be replaced with the orange ones. 4. kickstand. I can't remember if it was the R or the S or both. There was a recall on em. I would be looking for 04 and up models. With the 1125R coming out I bet there will be good deals to be found. But first & foremost, rather than buy a used bike to see if you like it, call around and see if there are other dealers with demo bikes that you can try out. | ||
| Johnnylunchbox |
WRT your comments on the "snap" or being "on the pipe" I have a good friend who is an engineer for a very well known ATV (among other things) company. He commented that when testing transmissions and power delivery, all the test riders perceived that they were faster on the "peakier" powerband ATV's versus the automatic "CVT" type transmissions. When the numbers came in the riders were actually faster on the less peaky (is that a word?) ATV's. Just something to think about. | ||
| Glitch |
I came off of in-line fours as well. The twins are a whole different animal. The perception of speed is very, very different. At 70mph the engine is doing 4000 +/- rpm, on the Bandit, it was 7000 +/-. So when I was still getting used to the Buell, I was feeling like I was riding a lazy bike. Once I learned the bike the perception of speed was changed, and I actually got a lot faster, because I can ride much smoother on the Buell. Smooth = Speed | ||
| Tjp |
Metal: Good things to consider. I didn't realize there were no 12's made in '03. I guess an '04 is what I'd be looking for. I know in '06 they changed to slash-cut gears. Does anyone think this made a big difference? Johnny/Glitch: I agree with you about the smooth factor being faster in some situations. Good point. Something to consider. This is exactly the type of info I hoped for when submitting this thread. Thanks for the info and opinions, guys! Question: What, if anything, are people doing to make the shifting easier? I know an adjustable lever, clutch springs/plates/ball ramps will make the pull easier, but what about the foot lever. Can anything be done? Tye | ||
| Hddlh |
06 trans changes are great. I rode harleys for 10 years before getting my 06 lightning and the trans shifts very smooth and easy, not the typical harley clunk. The clutch pull is also very light. | ||
| Dentguy |
Tjp...I agree with others that a longer ride may make a difference on how you feel. Maybe a different bike/different dealer? Personally after 15 minutes if I don't have a warm and fuzzy feeling it just isn't the right bike. You shouldn't have to try and convince yourself or be convinced that it's for you. Just my $.02. By the way I went for a 15 minute ride on a Uly before buying and loved it. | ||
| M1combat |
The general consensus WRT shifting feel is that you just have to shift like you mean it. It's really not a big deal to me but I have converted it to GP shift. The XB offers a very visceral experience and to me the "clunky" feel of the trans just adds to that. It shifts well when you shift it with some effort so once a person gets used to that it's just no big thing. Smooth very much equals speed (unless the long straight superslabs are your thing I guess...) and the XB is very easy to ride smooth. IMO the "S" model benefits from a steering damper but the "R" doesn't really need it until you've done some fairly serious engine work. The bike carries a decent chunk of its weight over the front tire and has VERY stable geometry. This makes for a Firebolt that is very stable over bumps and is razor sharp . Many people feel that the chassis is overly sensitive to suspension adjustments but I think it has more to do with the fact that the stock suspension has a wide range of adjustment both fore and aft. A 1/2 turn means more change than compared to most other top shelf suspension. The XB is a bike that can and will put distance on a much more powerful and more race oriented sports bike. It just has to be used in the right environment. It does VERY well in tight canyon roads (which is where I spend my favorite hours on a motorcycle) and on tight racetracks. With regards to maintenance... It's almost a non issue. I have 50K miles on mine and I've been stranded by flat tires more often than by any unreliability with the bike. I have the engine disassembled at the moment. It started making a tick that it hadn't made before so I pulled it out and pulled it apart. It looks like the oil pump drive gear was making the noise as I didn't find anything at all wrong other than that. It'll get a top end refresh and go back together. The '06 comes with the newer drive gear so if you get an '06 or newer you're all good with that anyway. That's really the nice thing about the engine too... It's dead simple to work on. Simplicity just about equals reliability in my book. Just for the record it still made good power all through the rev range before I pulled the engine. If I didn't want to refresh the upper end I wouldn't have needed to pull it. Just remove the cam cover and cams and replace the drive gear. Probably just a two hour job. | ||
| Tjp |
Man, I really need to ride one of these things again! It's all I thought about, and spent time researching, for the first couple of months after I came across it, and now that I've rode one, all I've been doing in my spare time is chatting about it. Maybe this means something? I have never fully dismissed the XB as my next bike. I only was a little concerned with these characteristics. Like I said before, one 15 minute "leashed" ride is not enough for me to make a purchasing decision. This is the main reason for starting this thread. As time passes, I find myself questioning how much these things really bothered me. As time passes, my memory gets less and less precise. I think I'll call the dealership here, where the demo ride took place, and see if they actually have a demo for me to take out again. I don't think they do, but I don't want to spend the time driving out of town to ride one until I'm ready to buy. The next closest dealership is about 2 hours away. Maybe I can make a friend in town who has one?? I know, good luck!! Worth wishing, though. Tye | ||
| Luxor |
Tjp, also check to see if there are any rental places near by that has Buells. Might be the chance to really ring one out. And I must add +1 to M1combats comments. Fine tuning a Buell to fit YOU makes all the difference in the world. I rode my 9 for a few months before setting the suspension up and thought the bike handled great. Once I set it up I was just stunned at how well the bike feels, I can do things in comfort that would have scared the living hell out of me on another bike. I will add the the refined look and ultra high-tech parts such as the frame and brakes seem to go very nicely with the old school brute mechanical feel of the bike. I find myself enjoying the feel and sound of the trans and engine as I ride, unrefined in a way, that just fits the bikes whole attitude. Hard to explain, but for me, my Buells are the perfect fit. And, I have yet to be out run by an I4. They get me a little on the slabs, but I chew them up in the twisties. So much so, that I have had guys look in disbelief as the 'lump' passed them. It sounds like you caught the Buell bug, but logic is fighting it. Thats OK, remember though, logic can't dictate emotion, and a Buell is PURE emotion. | ||
| Tjp |
"It sounds like you caught the Buell bug, but logic is fighting it. Thats OK, remember though, logic can't dictate emotion, and a Buell is PURE emotion." Very well put! You've just put my exact feelings into words!! Thanks!!! That last part should be a marketing quote. I think set up is very important, too. With my dirt bikes, I never ride them until I've taken them apart and adjusted to my specs. Even then, it usually takes a few rides to get them dialed in right. I think an adjustable clutch lever may solve the lurching problem I had when shifting. Now that I think about it, I don't blame the bike. I think I was rolling into it before the clutch was all the way out. I have new hope with you guys input. I think the race kit and adjustable lever will fix most of the issues I had. I really want to ride another one now with these new bits of info in mind. I'm calling the dealer. Tye | ||
| Dre99gsx |
Just to add, after changing to a short seat on my SS using a Select Seat, the entire bike felt different. After 2 weeks of riding, I got used to it again. I then switched to a SCG seat, and handling characteristics changed yet again! Riding position seems to be critical with these bikes as well. | ||
| Glitch |
Riding position seems to be critical with these bikes as well. No doubt. I swapped my S tail section with Wolfridgerider's R tail section. MAJOR change in handling, I even had to re-set-up the suspension. Suspension is where you want to start with these bikes. Once that is sorted out, the bike's on rails. | ||
| Xblack_knight12r |
Another thing to add.... The demo bikes that Buell supplies on the truck for the Demo days. Well, In my experiences, they range quite a bit in performance. Some of the bikes don't run very well, so do. Some bikes, the clutch feels like its totally wore out. A lot of different people ride these bikes. It doesn't seem like much maintenance is being done until they break down. It is depressing to get on a demo and realize that it isn't right. If this is your first experience to Buell, not good. My XB12R is a total joyride. The computer and TPS are finetuned to perfection, the plugs aren't half fouled, the suspension is set up, the tire pressure is right on. All of this makes the bike perform to the top potential. The demo bikes are sometimes not a full experience. Just my experiences. | ||
| Thumper74 |
I sold my 05 XB12S to buy a Harley. I'm currently selling the Harley to buy a Buell... I've ridden a few bikes since I sold the Buell and nothing compares. My roomate has a Sprint ST, is selling a Speed Triple and an R6. The R6 is fast, but too high strung. It seems to get really upset when applying/reducing power in anything but a straight line. Plus it's super soft down low. The Triple feels like a Buell, but with a better gearbox and 30 more horsepower. The Sprint ST is just a pleasure to ride. The Buell felt clunky in the gearbox at first, but it was resolved with being more 'firm' in my gear selection. With the lurching, I think it may just be the nature of the beast. My Sportster does it, as does all of the Blasts I have ridden. If you're lugging it, you really feel those one/two cylinder/s. Lack of power? I've never had a problem purposely or erroneously getting the front up. Mine was always super torquey and fun. It scared the crap out of my room mate with it's instant response. I was annoyed with a demo bike once too, they're like rental cars... Find someone you know who can trust you to let your barrow a bike... Only 12 more weeks of working 74 hour weeks untill another Buell is in my garage. | ||
| Tjp |
Thanks a bunch guys for your input. It really helps. I'm hoping to ride one again before making a decision. At worse case, if I can find one cheap enough, I may just buy a 12S, do the mods, and see. The wifey gets a new car in about a week, then it's my turn! Tye |
