| Author | Message | ||
     Prof_stack |
Bad news from the HD/Buell dealer: My '03 XB9S (t-boned a Civic on 6/30) has an estimated repair cost (parts/labor/tax) of $4,900. That sure sounds like it will be totaled. Tony at the shop is pretty convinced that Progressive (insuring the Honda Civic owner) will total it. The $1200 frame and $345 swingarm pushed it way up over the initial estimate. DANG! I want it back and fixed!!! Being new to this state of affairs, what options, if any, do I have? If they offer low end Kelly Blue-Book, who do I scream to? Would I be wise to keep the bike with a lower check, enough to fix the vital stuff and not sweat the cosmetic things (like the front wheel with the scratch)? What can I expect to happen? Any and all advice would be appreciated. Thanks! | ||
| Polish_assassin |
Hi prof, In order for Your bike to be totaled the repair costs would have to be equal to 80% of the vehicles value, at least that's the way it is in New Jersey but Insurance laws vary from state to state. I'm a service writer for a local shop and have performed countless crash estimates and have had to deal with adjusters and it is by no means an easy process. They don't want to total Your bike because it's gonna cost em money. They may offer You an "appearance allowance" depending on how bad the frame and swing arm are rashed and then the ball is in Your court as to just how bad You want "THAT" bike. However they also don't want to get involved in litigation so it my be time to consult an attorney to find out your options. I don't know if this helps You at all but I think it may point You in the right direction. GOOD LUCK. MARK | ||
| Fmaxwell |
My recommendation is to hope that they total it and if they don't, look for other things to bring the cost up to the point where it is totaled. Repair shops and estimators miss things during the crash estimate process. I, for one, have no desire to be riding around on a bike that's been in a major accident, hoping that each and every twitch, clunk, buzz, and rattle is not the sign of some unrepaired crash damage. Some key points: 1. The insurance company is your adversary. Their interests and yours are 180 degrees opposed. They want to give you as little as possible. 2. If you are not able to get satisfaction from the insurance company, then tell the other driver to contact their agent about it. The insurance company wants to make its customers happy -- and you are not the customer. 3. You have a right to be "made whole." They can't deprive you of a bike for weeks, not give you enough to readily replace your bike, and force you to spend hundreds of hours looking for a replacement bike. 4 When it comes to the money, remember that they are making you an offer. You don't have to take it. It's not cast in stone. If they try to low-ball it (which many do), start spelling out the meticulous care, add-ons, accessories, and hop-ups done to the bike. 5. You paid for a bike, whether for transportation or recreation. You have a right to ride one, so ask questions about whether they will rent you a bike for you. If you need a bike to ride at the track, then tell them that they need to rent one for you until the matter is resolved. 6. Remember that your time has value. If you have to spend 100 hours looking for a replacement, then figure that into equation. If they offer you 30% over KBB retail, you can find an equivalent bike tomorrow. If they offer you KBB trade-in, you might take months to find an equivalent bike for that amount (if you ever do). 7. Know ahead of time what the KBB and NADA figures are for your bike in your area. The trade-in value is not the replacement cost. That's what you can expect to pay for it if you're a dealer taking it on trade-in -- not what you can expect to find one for. Nor is the private party sales price a fair replacement figure. If you buy a bike from a private party, you have almost no practical recourse if you discover that it has hidden flaws (bent shifter fork, excessive oil consumption, burned valves, intermittent electrical problem, etc.). You know your bike was fine. You're gambling when you buy someone else's bike. 8. They want to cut you a check and be done with it, so know how much money you want, be able to justify it with ads, KBB, NADA, and receipts for parts and maintenance. Don't get into a long haggling routine with them. Just tell them that the amount that they are offering is not sufficient. 9. If they inquire about your health and recovery, tell them that it is a private matter that you choose not to discuss. Don't confirm or deny whether you were/are injured. But keep in mind that it's a lot cheaper for them to cut you a handsome check for the bike and have you go away than it is for them to cut you a lowball check for the bike and then have to pay tens of thousands for medical costs, pain and suffering, lost wages, etc. Sorry if this was TMI (too much information), but I've dealt with insurance companies in the past. | ||
| Lions |
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| Fmaxwell |
I don't see why anyone would be willing to downgrade from a Buell XB9S to a Kawasaki Ninja 636 -- if that's what those pictures are meant to suggest. | ||
| Curtyd |
Pull ads for comparable sales listings of the exact same bike from the last 2 to 3 months. Make direct contact to the adjuster yourself, waive any claims for medical expenses if you don't have any, fax the ad listings to him and make the DEAL for the highest retail value you have provided to him. Offer to do it now and early and offer to close this one for him NOW. Skip the books, the replacement value of your bike is exactly that, what it will cost to replace it in your area, GOOD LUCK. | ||
| Fmaxwell |
Curtyd wrote: Pull ads for comparable sales listings of the exact same bike from the last 2 to 3 months. Good suggestion. But don't brandish those ads until you hear their offer. The claims adjuster may offer more than the prices shown in your ads. Make direct contact to the adjuster yourself, That's going to happen anyway. I can't imagine who else you would be talking to. waive any claims for medical expenses if you don't have any, Do not offer to waive claims for medical expenses! If you doubt me, talk to an attorney. Although I'm sure that Curtyd meant well, that is absolutely terrible advice. Don't discuss medical claims with the adjuster for your bike. Ever. Period. fax the ad listings to him and make the DEAL for the highest retail value you have provided to him. This is just silly. The adjuster is not going to give you the dollar figure for the most overpriced bike you can find. If you represent the bikes in the ads as being equivalent to your bike, then you might get enough to buy the cheapest of them. Offer to do it now and early and offer to close this one for him NOW. Yeah, because settling your claim quickly is so important to him. He's losing sleep. He's unable to perform sexually. All because he is so concerned about how much he'll have to pay you for your bike. Get real: He doesn't give a rat's @ss about your claim. The longer they delay paying you, the more interest they earn on the money. The only thing that makes them want to settle something quickly is if they are paying for a rental vehicle. Skip the books, the replacement value of your bike is exactly that, what it will cost to replace it in your area, GOOD LUCK. You'll need a lot of luck for that. The books from NADA and Kelley are the standard for estimating the value of a vehicle. The adjuster is not going to "skip the books" because you tell him to. You might be able to convince him that the books are on the low side for a bike with the accessories and care yours had, but he's not going to "skip the books" and take a bunch of printouts from Craigslist to establish the value of your motorcycle. Always remember that this is just a business to the insurance adjuster. He has no emotional investment in it. He deals with claims all day long and doesn't care about your bike or you. All he cares about is the insurance company's bottom line -- did he save them money? | ||
| Polish_assassin |
Repair shops and estimators miss things during the crash estimate process. I, for one, have no desire to be riding around on a bike that's been in a major accident, hoping that each and every twitch, clunk, buzz, and rattle is not the sign of some unrepaired crash damage.... FMAX That is true to a point, HOWEVER that is what supplements are for and are common practice during crash repairs to include damage that could not be seen until the bike began to be torn down. I deal with it every day. | ||
| Fmaxwell |
FMAX That is true to a point, HOWEVER that is what supplements are for and are common practice during crash repairs to include damage that could not be seen until the bike began to be torn down. I deal with it every day. Absolutely true. But if I have a bike that I've babied and that has never been down, the chances are pretty good that there's not significant pre-crash, hidden damage. Post-crash, I'd have to worry about whether there were structural issues that were not visible to the naked eye or that were just missed. How does the insurance industry check for weakened parts? I've never heard of them magnafluxing triple trees. Most don't even do a laser alignment check on a frame. It's great to talk about supplemental checks, but what happens when a rider notices that his bike just popped out of gear at 55mph? He's not sure if he bumped the lever with his boot. So does he pay a shop to tear the tranny down and hope that he can convince an adjuster that the broken part was related to the crash (e.g., shift lever took the hit and bent a shift fork internally)? It's that kind of thing that worrying to me -- especially when the insurance company is not mine, but is that of the person who caused the accident. What incentive does the company have, months later, to make things right by me? I'm not the policyholder. Heck, look at what went on after Katrina and that should make it obvious why I'd rather not rely on the good will of the insurance industry. | ||
| Prof_stack |
Thanks for the suggestions so far. The bike was estimated by my Geico adjuster agreeing with the shop at about $1,000. It was the mechanic, Kevin (who is the #1 Buell guy there) who found the frame, swingarm, front wheel, etc. that the others had missed somehow. That pushed the repair estimate to $4900. I've talked with my Geico adjuster a few times. He already had Geico send me a check to replace the Sheoi helmet, adjusted somewhat for inflation. He surfed the Internet and found the retail price for the RF1000 and used that. I bought a nice Arai Vector but returned it to wait until the property claim is done. The other insurance company, Progressive, has two adjusters on the case. The medical adjuster met with me this week and is not in a hurry to get me to settle, which is good for me as I have a few lingering issues. Both Geico and Progressive have been very good to deal with, thus far. | ||
| Prof_stack |
Kawa Ninja? Heh, no thanks, but nice photos.! I might wait until the Spring to buy another motorcycle to give time to get what I "need" rather than grabbing one now on the rebound. My wife is dubious that I have the patience for that...  | ||
| Polish_assassin |
FMAX, I agree 100% that the insurance industry is driven by greed and that the only issue for them is the bottom line. But let's not forget about the important issue here, PROF STACK is in a situation he has not been in before, He may be able to look at the bike for just what it is "a machine that can be fixed" and his emotional attachment to the bike may differ from that of you to yours or me to mine. In my first response I wrote " the ball is in Your court as to how much You want THAT bike" and it's his choice what he will feel comfortable with. We don't even know how bad the bike is!... Prof stack, can You post some picks for us? or send them to Me in a PM, I'd like to help any way I can. MARK | ||
| Prof_stack |
My Geico adjuster told me today that they are going to approve the repairs on the '03 XB9S even though the cost is not very different from book value (NADA). That's great news! I hope... Seriously, that's awesome because I have complete faith in Buell tech Kevin in getting it correctly back together and running properly. Here's the rundown on replacement (big stuff only): frame, swingarm, front wheel, intake c (?), handlebar, ... Labor is estimated at $1700. Today I picked up the re-covered seat from Rich's Custom Upholstery. I might have to eat that expense but this seat is better than any I've ever ridden upon.  | ||
| Corporatemonkey |
I saw the Prof's new seat in person, it is really top notch quality. The photos do not do it justice. | ||
| Chadr81 |
Wow, not bad. The frame alone is $1100. My estimate when I high-sided was $2300 including labor... and that's without the frame!! | ||
| Slaughter |
I think the Buell guy - Kevin is on your side since it sounds like he was working to be able to get your bike built back up to 100%. Sure some deep gouges in the parts/pieces might not have any effect on how safe or functional they'd be - but heck, sounds like he worked with you to make sure you didn't have those nagging questions about IF the little rattle or IF that little "crooked" feeling were always there or due to the fall. Sounds like you got a good thing. | ||
| Prof_stack |
Wow, not bad. The frame alone is $1100. Well, today it costs $1200! The swingarm and front wheel are superficial damage. The frame, as I understand it, is not. What is also not superficial is my frustration at not riding the XB! Sure, the bicycle is helping heal my ankle, but its just not the same somehow. Heh, if I were to go down on the bicycle I'd likely be worse off than when I went down on 6/30. | ||
| Etennuly |
Haven't they offered to get you a rental vehicle while your bike is down? You are the claimant against Progressive, they are liable to make you whole both during and after the repairs. At the very least the insurance companies have a formula for payment to you for the days you have lost the use of your bike. I've seen some pay like $19.00+ per day for the length of down time depending on what vehicle you own and what coverages your policy has. | ||
| Prof_stack |
Etennuly, it was the fact that I haven't claimed the $25 per day rental that allowed the Buell to not be totaled and instead be repaired. I'll admit I don't know a lot about how insurance works. Maybe the main parts will be salvaged off to a road racer looking for usable items for their riding stable. I'll ask about that tomorrow when I call the adjuster. Part of me likes the '08 changes to the XB line so much that totaling my XB would give me quicker access to a new bike. But to sell the XB9S is not something I look forward to, with the resale not so hot. | ||
| Corporatemonkey |
Prof. You could always bribe someone (Kevin) to make sure it gets totaled. I have an acquaintance who did this once. It worked out nicely. | ||
| Tdiddy |
Bad karma. | ||
| Prof_stack |
Bad karma. Indeed. I'll let it play out and stay clean and sober. Glad to get it back looking much newer. But also realizing that I'll have to take a hit if and when I go to sell it. BUT, the XB9S is the best of seven cycles I have owned in almost (gulp) 40 years. Plus, the custom seat makes long rides a pleasure rather than a pain. |
