| Author | Message | ||
     Obiewan |
Long story so I'll try to make it short. I just purchased a new front tire (Metzeler Sportec M-1 / 120/70 ZR17 M/c (58W) Cost $166.95 installed and balance included. (Bubble Balance at that) ): And yes they did scratch the D@#m rim. The Bike 2004 XB12R With race ECM and Pro Series Pipe. Ever since the new tire install, the bike corners much much much better. Did I say MUCH better already? And I mean it. But here is the problem. When I approach 110 MPH the front end gets loose and starts to wobble. Almost like a high speed wobble but a little different. Controllable to some extent unlike a high speed wobble. If I try to accelerate past 110 to over come the wobble it does not get better, in fact it worsens. OK, when I picked the bike up(after the new tire was installed) and checked out the tire and all, I mentioned to them the new scratch on the rim, but did not notice that the time that the weight for balancing had not moved. I finally noticed it (the weight) after the first time I sensed the wobble at around 50 or 60 MPH when I pulled over to take a look. So, I take the bike back and tell them what was happening and they kind of blew me off at first. They said “all we have is a bubble balancer and it might not be that well balanced” Can you believe that! So I pursued the issue and finally they decided to take a look at the balancing. When I got it back, the weight was moved slightly and there was more weight added to the rim. I thought that that might have corrected the problem. So off I go to test it out, and as soon as I reach 110MPH here we go again with the wobble. OK, now that the balancing is supposed to be correct, why in the heck is it getting loose? Nothing else was changed. Nothing. So, now I’m looking at the Dampener. Did it for some reason change? Did the new tire install change that to the point to where I now need to make an adjustment to the dampener? Sorry about the long description of the problem, but I think it was needed to get a solution to the problem at hand. Thanks in advance for your help. | ||
| M1combat |
It's probably still not balanced. Also... Did you tighten the axle with the front on the ground? | ||
| 07xb12scg |
They said “all we have is a bubble balancer and it might not be that well balanced” Wow! What a joke. That would make me feel completely safe (sarcasm!). I mean these geniuses may not have even put the wheel back on correctly for all you know. Find a new dealer! Your tires are inflated to the correct pressure, right? A steering damper probably would be a good investment regardless of this problem. I had a slight headshake flying over the crest of a hill. It was my first experience and I wasn't having fun. Why do the Buell steering dampers have to be ugly and stuck to the side of the bike, though? | ||
| Obiewan |
M1Combat, They did it at the shop twice. I didn't do it, so I would think that that would not be the problem, but I will check for sure this evening. Thanks for the input. | ||
| Obiewan |
07xb12scg, I haven't check the tire pressure with a gauge. I need to do that for sure. I know it's not low on pressure though. There is an adjustment on the dampener (factory dampener) in the book (Shop manual). I have not attempted that as of yet. I'll look at it this evening and report back for sure. Thanks for the feedback. | ||
| 07xb12scg |
When you say dampener are you referring to the forks? I thought you meant a steering damper. | ||
| Sparky |
Since it was static balanced and done a couple times, that will work OK to keep the wheel from bouncing as long as the imbalance is dead-nuts on the centerline of the tire. But yours is wobbling which indicates it's a different type of imbalance. What you probably have is a heavy spot offset from the centerline which, even though it is static balanced, is causing the wheel to wobble around the steering axis and, as you found out, it gets worse at higher speeds. The best solution, of course, is to get it dynamic spin balanced. This attempts to locate the heavy spot and adjust the weights on left and right sides of the rim to equalize an offset imbalance. But if this is not possible, then perhaps you could do the next best thing: spread out the stick-on weights equally so that they are not more on one side than the other. If there's one weight, mark its spot on the rim with a pencil and remove it. Either cut the weight in half or replace the one weight with two smaller weights that add up to the weight of the original one. Then put the two smaller weights on the left and right sides of the rim at the original spot. Test drive it up to where the problem appeared and see if there's any improvement. | ||
| Anonymous |
Also, check out the tire for runout; the tire might be mounted without the beads fully seated (not likely but possible), or the tire may be manufactured with excessive runout; either case can contribute to a wobble. It's also possible it's simply the tire combination causing the problem. In general, the XB12R is one of the most stable motorcycles made, but there are times an extremely stable motorcycle can be affected by the wrong pair of tires, particularly if there are construction and profile differences front to rear. | ||
| Scott_in_nh |
I 2nd the back tire being the possible cause. What is it and what condition is it in? | ||
| Sgthigg |
BEFORE YOU GO AND DROP A TON OF MONEY ON SOMETHING YOU DIDNT NEED BEFORE THE TIRES WERE MOUNTED ie A DAMPENER. THINK ABOUT IT IF YOU DIDNT NEED ONE BEFORE....ASK YOURSELF, WHATS CHANGED?? -YOU SOUND EXACTLY LIKE ME WHEN I GOT MY PILOT POWERS MOUNTED. MAKE SURE THE WEIGHT IS ON THE ROTOR SIDE! Trust me it makes a difference! I had exactly the same problem and scenario to the T. I moved the weight to the rotor side as the service manual says. She has been just fine ever since. Hope this helps! (Message edited by sgthigg on July 07, 2007) | ||
| Obiewan |
07xb12scg, Yes, I was talking about the dampener on the forks. But I haven't changed anything so it makes me wonder what's going on. | ||
| Obiewan |
That is a ton of good information from all of you. I appreciate all the help. The back tire is a Shinko 180/55 ZR17 M/C 73W. The Wobble is from side to side, not much bouncing (up and down)that I can tell. I just took it for another test ride so I can explain it better. It will also do it on hard acceleration.Seems like when the front end (tire) gets light it will do the same thing, just not as bad. Thanks again for all your help. | ||
| Rd3501 |
well that is your problem. you are running two different tires from two different manufactors.. | ||
| Djkaplan |
Um... is the tire mounted in the correct direction? Is the arrow on the sidewall pointing in the direction of rotation? | ||
| Obiewan |
Rd3501, Last summer I had the rear tire installed. I was running the Metzeler on the rear and the Shinko on the front and had no problems. It was only when the front tire was installed recently that I began to have the problem. In other words. On the way to have the new front tire installed there was not a problem with wobble. When I went home from the shop I noticed it right away. Took it back and they re-balanced it and I still have the same problem. BTW your name rd3501. Did you own one? I had one back in the 70's SWEET bike. | ||
| Obiewan |
DJkaplan, Yes the tire is mounted in the right direction. Steering feels very loose also. I thought I'ed tighten the dampener on the forks and see what that does. | ||
| Obiewan |
Crap, on the post above I entered the wrong information on the tire. " was running the Metzeler on the rear and the Shinko on the front " I meant to say I was running the Metzeler on the rear and the factory Dunlop on the front." | ||
| Sparky |
I'm afraid the rebound damper on top of the forks won't do much to resolve a tire balance problem. Get the wheel balanced properly and the wobble should go away. Find a shop that will dynamic balance it and you're good to go. | ||
| Sgthigg |
Where is the weight on the front wheel? Is it on the rotor side? | ||
| Dano_12s |
Obie, try to relieve the brake pad pressure on rotor then lift front end to spin tire,see if all turns true. | ||
| Obiewan |
The weight is on the rotor side and it has moved and more weight was added. Still the same problem. Tire pressure is at 38psi cold, I'll try to spin it manually and see what gives. Thanks a bunch. I'll yet ya know. | ||
| Xblack_knight12r |
You might want to have the shop check your fork bearings for proper adjustment according to the service manual. The front wheel/tire combo needs to be inspected on a spin balancer. Tire and wheel should have no wobble or hopping while spinning at speed. Pay close attention to the wheel shoulders for flat spots or damage when the tire was mounted. I believe that a close visual inspection will find the problem. Also, sometimes a tire will be out of round when new. Replacement will be required. If it requires a lot of weight to balance, there is something wrong. | ||
| Obiewan |
Xblack, I'll check that also. I hesitate to take it back due to the attitude I got when I took it back in for balancing. Geezzzz. All I want is for it to be like it was before I took it in there. | ||
| Sparky |
No, I think what we are trying to say is find a different shop that has the right equipment to the job properly. You're wasting your time and their's trying to make the original shop do it right because they apparently can't. Maybe a way out would be to ask your shop if they know another shop that has a spin balancer and would pick up the tab to do the job properly or at least meet you half-way on the tab? Since this is a safety issue, the original shop has a duty to do the job right or, at least, see that it gets done right. If they don't, they could be held responsible if something happens to you (god forbid, it wobbles and you crash) as a result of their incompetence. | ||
| Xblack_knight12r |
Obiewan, sorry to hear that you are getting "attitude" from the dealer. Are you dealing with the service advisors or the service manager and tech directly? In my experiences, I like to talk directly to the tech who is working on my bike. I know the service dept. doesn't like to have the techs talk to the customer, but I ask nice and usually get to have a nice (short) talk with the tech and go back into the service bay to see my bike while its being serviced. I don't watch the tech work on my bike, but usually they like to see that you are interested and concerned. Also, I don't just drop my bike off. I arrange to have it worked on while I wait. Maybe I have just been lucky, but my Buell dealer is very accommodating for me. Have you thought of using another Buell dealer who is more friendly to you? I go 85 miles one way to get my Firebolt worked on. I pass 3 other Buell dealers while doing this. I let my dealer know that I have gone out of my way to come to them. And trust me, they take care of me! BALTIMORE BUELL/HD IS THE BEST!!! | ||
| Scottsts |
Put a new rear tire on (same brand). I bet your wobbles go away. | ||
| Fullpower |
couple questions for you obie: 1) what do you mean by " a lot of weights" There are exactly zero wheel weights on my XB12, which has had 10 rear and 4 front tires so far. ALL of the Metzeler and Pirelli tires have mounted up in balance, with NO WEIGHTS required. 2) What motorcycle part are you referring to when using the term " DAMPENER" I use a device at various gasoline filling stations for "dampening" my headlamp lens and helmet faceshield, preparatory to wiping the bugs off. You may want to closely inspect the lash or play in the steering head bearings, and also as someone said in an earlier post check the wheel for "runout". good luck, and please do post back with your findings. | ||
| S1eric |
Hey Obiewan, I agree with what anony said. I had the same situation with my S1 a while back. After installing a new SET of tires. Matching set. At around 85 the bike would start a slow wobble. I kept looking for a problem with the front tire. Checked everything. Sure felt like the problem was coming from the front end. After exhausting all options up front I looked to the rear. I had a spare rear hanging around the shop slapped it on the bike and it solved the problem. I was a little shocked. It was a new tire after all. It balanced out just fine, And looked ok to the untrained eye. Chalked it up to experience and just ate the cost of the tire. Sure I tried to get the tire rep to do some thing. But -------. After 40 yrs of riding that was the only time I have seen a new tire do that. S1Eric | ||
| Obiewan |
Been working all week and have not had time to check on the forum. Thanks for all the post/help. Sparky, I'll try a different shop like you said. They already said that I can take it to another shop that has a spin balancer. but didn't mention that they would pay to have it done. oh well .. live and learn. Xblack, Are you dealing with the service advisors or the service manager and tech directly? Yes, I have spoken to both of them. They act like I'm crazy. I've been on bikes for 40 years or so. and never have had this problem before. been through a bunch of tires. Have you thought of using another Buell dealer who is more friendly to you?} | ||
| Obiewan |
oops, Have you thought of using another Buell dealer who is more friendly to you?} Xblack, The shop I used was not the local Buell Dealer, that's what I was doing. I was trying a different place this time. But they are the largest dealer in the area. And don't have a darn spin balancer. Go figure.... |
