| Author | Message | ||
     Obiewan |
If one was to replace all the plastic on a XB12R with carbon fiber, how much weight would it save and would it be worth the expense? Seems like there would not be that much of a difference. | ||
| Interex2050 |
Well the plastic on the XBs is pretty heavy... I was surprised when I held both the firebolt fairing and the magnesium support piece and they felt to be about the same weight (I could be wrong, it just felt that way). Although replacing all the plastic will same quite a bit of weight (well not really, maybe a couple pounds), would it be really worth giving up the convenience of the plastic; if you scratch it- buffs out if you bend it- it pops back Plus carbon fiber is so pricey and if left untreated leaving it in the sun will lead to discoloration and eventual weakening. In my opinion it is not worth it, unless you are racing. (Message edited by interex2050 on June 09, 2007) | ||
| Obiewan |
I hear ya. Heck - for that matter, I need to watch for change in my pockets if I was that worried about weight then. LOL. I'm thinking that it's probably not worth it. I have held carbon fiber parts and they sure are lighter, but there isn't really that much of it to change to really make a difference.  | ||
| Disturbed |
Well what is it, roughly 100 Lbs. is worth a tenth in the quarter, or something like that. Strip 100 pounds off your XB..... ^_^ (Message edited by Disturbed on June 09, 2007) | ||
| Obiewan |
Disturbed, I don't think there is a 100lb's worth of plastic to get rid of. If that was the case it would be worth it. Hell I'm barely 150 myself.  I really don't know for sure, that was the reason for the question. Thanks for the reply. | ||
| Tigerbythetail |
hi..................in case you are interested in weights and what can be done about it........here are some ideas...........e.g. the XB9 airbox cover (black plastic) weights 800 gram. The base around 1 kg..............all in all there is about 5 kg of weight to be saved when you replace the stock plastic parts with carbon (please don't muck up the positioning of the header breather hoses in the process). A smaller battery saves around 1500 gram. Titanium bolts another 1000 gram. The engine can be stripped of 8 kg. Using a lighter side stand gets rid of around 500 gram. Changing the exhaust to something lightweight (headers/muffler) brings around 7 kg. A lighter rear brake setup saves around 400 gram. Changing the axles (front/rear/swingarm) to titanium gives you another reduction of around 1 kg (its now getting rally expensive) In total around 25 kg can be saved on a road worthy XB..........now look for comparison at what Honda has done with their little 600 RR bike.....when they released the 2007 model..............they stripped over 6 Kg in comparison to the predecessor.........that is something that is really impressive in particular when you look the price of that bike. tiger | ||
| Disturbed |
Disturbed, I don't think there is a 100lb's worth of plastic to get rid of. If that was the case it would be worth it HOLY COW! PLEASE, PLEASE, tell me you didn't think that I was saying it was possible to shave 100 Lbs. off a 390 Lb. bike. We aren't exactly seeing eye to eye this morning but to you really think I'm a complete retard? Cord | ||
| Sub65chris |
what about a carbon fiber frame and swingarm? | ||
| Dbird29 |
From Autoblog.com http://www.autoblog.com/2007/06/07/ruh-roh-carbon- fiber-in-short-supply/ Looks like it might take a few extra shifts of flipping burgers to save up for that carbon fiber hood you've had your eye on, bucko. USA Today is reporting that carbon fiber demand has gone way up recently, causing prices to quadruple in some cases. They blame the price surge on demand for new jetliners, like Boeing's 787 and its primary rival, the Airbus A350, which use significant amounts of CF, particularly for their wings. The cost of carbon fiber has jumped from $5 a pound just a few years ago, to a whopping $20 a pound today. We kind of figured it was sold by the yard rather than by the pound, but that's neither here nor there. To cope with the increased demand, carbon fiber manufacturers are adding production capacity, but that will take time. And in the meantime we'll have to keep paying more. To put this price increase in perspective, they point out how specialty manufacturer Saleen had to raise the price of its S7 supercar by $25,000 for 2007. That might not seem like a big jump on a car that already retails for $580,000, but that increase alone could get you a Mazdaspeed3. And the tuner crowd could be especially hard hit, with costs more than doubling for products like hoods, mirrors, spoilers, and trim. Of course, faux fiber will probably be even more popular than ever as a result, which is the dark side to this story. It's probably the extra time to get their carbon fix more than the extra money it costs to buy that will effect most shoppers, however. Retailers are saying some product delivery times are up 4-6 weeks as a result of the extra demand. | ||
| Slaughter |
Carbon frames and swingarms have been done (on other bikes) - definite weight savings but you CAN'T afford either the purchase price or the inspection and replacement costs if you tip over. Carbon doesn't crash well and often has to be replaced. You also have to remove the parts/pieces from the chassis in order to do ultrasound and X-Ray inspection. You'd pay MORE to inspect a damaged chassis than you'd pay for a (fill in the blank) sportbike chassis - including an XB. Notice that most graphite stuff you see on racebikes and being sold for streetbikes is Non-Structural - if it breaks, you are NOT going to go down. | ||
| Slaughter |
Dbird's prices above are for RAW carbon roving - weave it and now you're talking more like $40 to $70 per pound. Impregnate it with resin (pre-preg) and you're up to $125-$150 depending on fiber and resin types. There are folks desperately trying to get alternate sources for carbon... we're committed to domestic sources at work - the historic source (Japan) is maxed out and the Chinese are spooling up. | ||
| Slaughter |
Obiewan, In answer to your original question - the PERCENTAGE weight savings is pretty dramatic but the total weight saved in pounds isn't huge. The carbon parts are about (from memory) less than half the weight of the plastic bits they replace. I'd look at them the same way that a Harley guy looks at chrome - good looks for extra bucks - EXCEPT that graphite does actually save weight... (AND it does look pretty cool). | ||
| Sub65chris |
loctite company has a sub company called hysol that specifically deals with carbon fiber and arospace grade resins for most application that include high heat and high vibration applications. It will lend itsself to a frame or swing arm . As for the world wide shortage and higher costs there are pre preg sheets you can buy that are "out of date" that are still just as strong as the new ones and are sold for a fraction of the price due to federal regulations. The only problem is finding them because they disapear so quickly and they are not advertised . | ||
| Johnnylunchbox |
I plan on lightening my ride by about 20-25lbs. It will involve eating less and getting my fat ass on the treadmill a few times a week.  | ||
| Obiewan |
Disturbed, I didn't mean it that way. Easy does it. Just making conversation here. Thanks for all the input everyone. | ||
| Sub65chris |
Johnnylunchbox- yep thats what my wife is doing to me ! | ||
| Lost_in_ohio |
Someone beat me to the punch. THe easiest way to lighten a buell is to put the rider on a diet. Me included. Sucks when you get old and your metabolism slows. I am doing 45 minutes a day on the tread mill. 30 lbs since February. Slow going, it will be worth it in the end. | ||
| Tigerbythetail |
The idea that Carbon fibre parts for the type of stress that occurs in a bike are lighter is not correct. To achieve similar characteristics of the final part (in comparison to e.g ALU 7075 there is no real weight saving. The reasoning to go for a composite is a bit more complex. As slaugher pointed out.............you go down when it breaks. Getting flex into your frame as intended in modern bike concepts is a lot easier to do with metal. When the part is static your life does not depend on it than its a different matter. Carbon fibre wheels are actually a very dangerous on the road depending on the terain. John McGuinness was asked 2007 how his bike was prepared for the TT...........one brand new set of AlU-wheels (no carbon) and a steel sub frame (definetly no carbon seat) for his Fireblade................he did what everybody expected this year........he set the Isle of Man alight in Friday’s Senior TT when he not only led the race from start to finish, but also became the first man to break the magical 130mph barrier. Rather sadly one rider died at the 26th milestone and two spectators with him and two more injured. Regarding pre-preg..............have you ever worked with this stuff?...........ever made a mold?........taking a prepreg and making something from it is a lot more difficult to ackomplish than with conventional laminating techniques. Mass production once the mold is sorted is obviously simplified, but to get there the preparation is not trivial. 30 lbs..........well done at lot of people in your age group never manage to do that........... tiger | ||
| Sub65chris |
Tigerbythetail-pm sent |
