| Author | Message | ||
     Tigerbuell |
Hey guys, As stated in an earlier post I am removing the headers to wrap and paint them. Here is my situation: I ordered a service manual and it has not arrived yet (expect it in a couple of days mainly want for torque specs on reassemble). I have done extensive research on BadWeb for engine rotation tips and feel pretty comfortable. I tore the bike down and started to rotate the engine. In checking for obstructions I noticed the idler pulley rotates up and back which appears to be tensioning the drive belt. I jacked the engine back up for now. My question. Do you have to release tension on the drive belt before rotating the engine? I did not notice this mentioned in any of the procedures people described. I tried to loosen the belt but I was unable to turn the hub nut. I used the special tool, 7/8 socket and 1/2 drive ratchet and could not budge it. Everyone mentions turning the nut 20 turns CCW but it won't move. I got scared that I was doing something wrong and came to consult BadWeb. Do I have to loosen the drive belt? For future reference, what am I doing wrong to loosen the axle/belt? Any advice would be greatly appreciated! | ||
| 984gasm |
You took out the pinch bolt, right? | ||
| Tigerbuell |
Yes I completely removed the pinch bolt from the right side. It looks like there is on on the left also. Is that correct? Does it need to be removed? Also, does the rear brake caliper need to be unbolted to only loosen the drive belt not remove the wheel? Somewhere it was mentioned that the rear rotor could be warped if the caliper was not removed but I didn't understand if that applies to just loosening the belt. Thanks, TigerBuell | ||
| Hogs |
Tigerbuell, I have only done this a couple of times and not for awhile... I am going off memory here BUT I do believe you want to take the idle pulley right off... Lo0sen the rear swing arm Axel the 15 turns or so when its loose then take the idle pulley two bolts off and remove it .. I think thats your plm.. But like I said I`m old and my Memory is not like it use to be... Also I think you should remove the rear brake Caliper as well I do Believe... (Message edited by hogs on February 22, 2007) | ||
| Firebolteric_ma |
You do not need to remove the rear brake, You do need to remove the idler. I have done this a bunch of times and took pictures of the rotation and how to get it done. takes about 15 minutes to rotate the motor. One day when my computer at home is up and running I will post the whole thing w/ pictures. | ||
| Hogs |
Perhaps its the rear Brake pedal and rider brake bracket I was thinking of... Firebolteric, I have seen you post this before about 15 mins. Man I don`t know .. You must have the Best of Speed gear etc. etc. You are some wrench I`m sure the Stealer Ships wd. have a job for YoU... Anyways I think its wrong to tell someone it only takes 15 mins. It will take him Awhole lot longer than that I`m sure... Take your time... | ||
| Hogs |
Oh yes... I wd. love to see some buddy of yours take a Video of this, And post a link, So we all can see... You may be on to something.. Or should I just leave out the word "to" :-) | ||
| Tigerbuell |
I had the engine rotated in less than 1 hour last night before I ran into this problem with loosening the belt tension. I dinked with that for about 45 minutes before I gave up. Just to verify, 1. Loosen the pinch bolt (right side) 2. Insert 'axle tool' into right side hub 3. Use 7/8" socket to turn 'axle tool' CCW 20 turns. I can't get step 3. It will not turn and I was putting alot of force on it (partially lifted the rear of the bike). It appears there is a pinch bolt on the left side. Does this need to be loosened? Thanks! | ||
| Hogs |
There is no pinch bolt on the left side!!!! What you have is the Frozen Axel plm. Axel seized in the bearings this is hard to explain here how to get it free up.. HAd same plm. before.. But Perhaps others can give ya a better explanation how to get it free up Sorry.. | ||
| Hogs |
Lots of penetrating fluid sprayed in and around bearings/Axel ends etc. try working it back and forth ,Others have used HEAT one has to be really careful there ( heat gun etc. ), also IF You put something in between the right side swing arm and wheel as A wedge( piece of wood perhaps ) and work it out to try to hold bearing from pulling out with the Axel.. Like I said its hard to explain... | ||
| Hogs |
"partially lifted the rear of the bike" How is that possible? | ||
| Tigerbuell |
The bike is on a swingarm stand and I pulled up on the axle nut (CCW) with a 1/2 drive breaker bar and the rear of the bike started to lift so I got scared I would lift it right off the swingarm stand. P.S. I eats me spinach! | ||
| 984gasm |
Tiger, I had the same problem the first time I personally tried to take off the tire/ loosen tension. My swingarm started to split apart because the axle was seized so well. I used a ratchet tie down to keep the axle from getting apart, and just sprayed some penetrol in there and just worked with it.. It was very frustrating, and I feel your pain.. but after I got it, I put ANTI-SEIZE on the threads to make sure I didn't happen again. Just be patient and try either heat or a penatrating oil. Hopes this helps a little.. | ||
| Hogs |
Well .. Spinach won`t help here :-) The Axel is seized onto the bearings or the other way around bearings on to the Axel...However ya want to look at it... So as I said try to wedge something in there between the right side and the wheel Axel area and then try to loosen it out ( after you have soaked it with Pblaster, or a Good Penetrating fluid even Mopar Chrysler penetrating fluid is good ) Leave it set for awhile then spry again and again... If that don`t work blow off with compressed air etc. and try to heat it up some be careful of wheel seals etc etc.. don`t know what else to tell ya... | ||
| Hogs |
Good Point on the ANTI-SEIZE also, coat the Axel with it where the bearings ride on it after you clean up the Axel there with some fine fine paper... I myself never had the Axel seize in the swing arm threads just the bearings , But that is possible as well.. (Message edited by hogs on February 22, 2007) | ||
| Warbaby |
It took me about 2 hours to rotate the engine down but...I take lots of beer breaks to keep it fun.  A 15 minute rotation? Yehaaaw!  | ||
| Firebolteric_ma |
I have seen you post this before about 15 mins. Man I don`t know .. You must have the Best of Speed gear etc. etc. I do wrench often but I am no pro..just a parts changer bike geek ...My first time took me about 3 hours with the frozen axle/bearing problem.(streessssssfulll). After that..It is GRavy! I have had friends over that did not believe me....now they are believers as you DO NOT need to do all the manual says. a few bolts/brkts and it will be ready to rotate. On the axle problem, Best way I have found in breaking it loose was to use plenty-o-penetrating oil and heat it with a heat gun. I put a heat gun in the end of the axle(side where you loosen/tighten) heat it carefully through the axle, watch the other side bearing, when you see it getting to hot take the heat away and immediately start working the axle back and forth. once cooled repeat the process and watch the swingarm also once it starts turning. you DO NOT want to put to much pressure on it (but you will need some)when axle is frozen to bearing as it will pull the swingarm open(?) meaning make it wider(?) keep heating it, more penetrating oil (oil is your friend) keep working axle it will come loose with time...be patient..walk away when stressed and let the oil/heat do its job. when I did mine it was on TIGHT. I would expand/stretch the swingarm about an inch maybe more..it was "pressured" for sure, then let off the pressure, this pressure will help in getting it loosened. I will work on getting this process on video. I have it with pictures from my last time just need to put them in order with some text to explain it. My home computer is having issues right now (that is real stress!!!!) so I can only use the work one. | ||
| Firebolteric_ma |
The bike is on a swingarm stand and I pulled up on the axle nut Put the breaker bar on the other side of the axle....PUSH DOWN | ||
| Firebolteric_ma |
an air ratchet may help also as the impact will help loosen/break it free | ||
| Hogs |
You said "I can't get step 3. It will not turn and I was putting a lot of force on it (partially lifted the rear of the bike). " Perhaps it is the swing arm Threads it is seized in your case... Then soak it with P.Fluid and maybe even the HEAT there GooD LucK... | ||
| Firebolteric_ma |
If that was the case I would heat the "swingarm" area around the axle/axle treads. You want the swingarm to expand BEFORE the axle expands so it will break free. | ||
| Hogs |
Someone should make a Sticky Thread ( Post ) on the Frozen Axel Syndrome...! With all the possibilities to get the Axel OUT! | ||
| Tigerbuell |
Thanks for all the advice. Not quite sure I understand the whole 'swingarm spreading' deal but without an exploded view of the hub I don't understand how turning the bolt CW and CCW tightens and loosens the drive belts respectively. I've got some penetrating oil and a bigger breaker bar so we'll have a go again tonight. I could always compress the rear shock and get the pulley off but this problem will come up later when I have to change the rear tire. | ||
| Captnemo |
I'm planning on doing the install on the Micron exhaust this weekend. To rotate the engine down enough to get to the rear cylinder head do I need to take the drive belt tensioner loose ? | ||
| Tigerbuell |
Yes Captnemo. That is what originated this thread. I am pulling my headers off and if you don't remove the idler pulley off it will move up and back when you lower the engine which will put more tension on the belt. I lowered the engine down without removing the pulley and the drive belt got too tight before I got the engine down enough to get the header bolts so I think it is REQUIRED to remove the pulley. | ||
| Firebolteric_ma |
YES INDEED IT DOES | ||
| Hogs |
Now...Someone said before on the xb9`s with the smaller header pipe one can get them off without rotation, Through the fan area after removing the fan/shock ... | ||
| Firebolteric_ma |
HOLLY COW! Have you ever tried getting that stuff out? Real PITA..I would rotate the motor before doing that any day. NO ROOM at all for one to unscrew the little bolts to the fan and it is a chore to get that fan out/back in, and then you get to wrench an 1/8 turn at a time with the little space you got. Ask me how I know this... maybe a 9 you get some extra room but I wouldn't think enough to justify it...But then again my axle is not stuck, But it will not get unstuck unless one attempts this also. Guess it is up to the guy doing the work. GOOD LUCK! | ||
| Firebolteric_ma |
I also believe the o2 sensor is in the way....I can't remember for sure though. That is a challenge to remove through the fan area also. something else to consider | ||
| Metalstorm |
Couldn't ya just remove the belt instead of the pulley? I don't mean completely remove the belt since that requires removing the swing arm brace removal but I mean just pull it off the sprockets. I can pull my belt off/on the sprockets without removing the pulley (though the rear tire does have to be off so not to injure the belt) But.. I have never rotated my engine so I plead ignorance  | ||
| Hogs |
SOooo... TigerBuell How did ya make out??? | ||
| Tigerbuell |
Good news! To paraphrase Pulp Fiction: 'I got a couple hard pipe hit'in brothers to go to work on the homes' Seriously, I soaked the bolt down with penetrating fluid and tried it again with no luck. So I soaked it some more, heated the rear with a heat gun and used a 1/2" drive breaker bar with a 3' cheater bar and I showed it who was boss! Once it broke free I turned it 15 turns and removed the pulley. Then lowered the engine and had the headers off in about 15 minutes. If not for the stuck axle I would say I could have the headers of by lowering the engine in 45 minutes tops. This really isn't a bad procedure if you only do what is necessary. As usual, service manuals and instruction guides make most things seem like you are performing atomic fusion. Just use some good old common sense and plenty of BadWeb research and you'll be alright. Now that the header is off I am going to wrap it then paint it with the DEI HT silicon paint. I will also use this opportunity to paint my D&D since is has some surface rust. Thank you guys for all your help. This site rocks for DIY's like me! | ||
| Hogs |
GooD For You!!!!!!!!!! | ||
| Madsx |
So, which of these steps can we skip? Inquiring minds need to know.  | ||
| 984gasm |
Definetely would love to know which steps to skip. That service manual makes it seem like a daunting process, but I am sure it's not.. | ||
| Tigerbuell |
Check under my post (a couple ones down) about the steps. I put a general list of steps there but if you have any specific questions I'll be glad to answer them. |
