| Author | Message | ||
     Jpxb9 |
I am looking for an Aluminum velocity stack for XB 12. Does anyone know a sponsor who makes this ? Thanks. Ps I have one on my 9S, it's a Brion/James, I am happy with it but production is closed for years now ! | ||
| Indy_bueller |
Hillbilly Motors makes the FAST system. | ||
| Bads1 |
Why do you want one??? | ||
| Xl1200r |
Is there a performance advantage over the stock one? | ||
| Jpxb9 |
With a shorter one you have a better air admission - that's what I read - "velocity stack length and volume will absolutely affect power delivery, shorter stacks raise the RPM where max power is made" And on my 9S, with the brion/james it avoids the dip at 3000 rpm, so it works and one of my friends needs one for his XB12R. (Message edited by jpxb9 on February 14, 2007) | ||
| Bads1 |
Brion got Banned from this sight for selling those as a non sponsor. It was also tested and it showed NO benefit at all over the stock Stack. He also got Jousted from Americanthunderbike.com. Infact Brion James also took several peoples money without sending them the stack. Sorry I say this about a part you like and I'm sure it looks nice but people of this board went to great length's to see if it worked and it didn't. Heck even Daves from Appleton was involved as was the Drummer boy's. | ||
| Indy_bueller |
Didn't somebody do a comparison? It seems to me it was "Englishman" or some name similar. From what I remember the FAST system came out on top, and they are a board sponsor. | ||
| Jpxb9 |
Bads, I know all this about Brion/James. I have no more contact with them, I was only a customer. I was lucky, I sent money and I had the stack. I bought this part in 2003, it was my first mod. With this stack, I had better torque and no more dip near 3000 rpm. So a well done stack is better than the stock one IMHO. If anyone has a dyno could be nice. Is there only the FAST system, who knows ? | ||
| Metalstorm |
If I recall it did have positive effects but that might be because it was paired with an inverted nipple cover very similar to the 12 and current 9 cover. Either way it was proven that it "wasn't" any worse than stock and was damn pretty. I never once thought about spending $$ on it. It's a beautifully made part but it's hidden under both airbox covers and the filter so it didn't make much sense to me. | ||
| Tigerbythetail |
hi..........I have run a series of tests with a new stock XB12R on a Dynojet dyno with lambda measurements to test several different air intake configurations in 01/2007 (Report will be available in March as PDF). We nulled the ECM and all test where done at the same temp and humidity. In a nutshell: 1. rubber stack with K&N Filter and lid (like than one from American Sportsbikes), vs. 2. custom made ALU velocity stack. with K&N Filter and lid vs. 3. FAST There is no significant difference between these configurations. All make the bike run leaner (indicated by the lambda measurements) at lower revs and here more fuel would be helpful. All produced around 6BPH more at the rear wheel than the stock bike configuration. I can not say if this increase in power remains after the ECM has been "retrained". One of the chaps I work with has tested around 40 different air intake configurations (different stack shapes and lenghts) non of the dyno runs showed significant differences. So the answer is. The alu stack is a show peace and not needed on the Buell manifold of a stock XB that is only modified in the periphery and did not undergo serious engine reworking. And I say it again leave the breathers in the stock bikes where they are. It caused more hassle than good. Get yourself a K&N Filter the lid and you have a better running bike despite that it runs a little to lean at lower revs. Nevertheless there is a modification that probably brings around one BHP over the standard airf ilter solutions, but we have not done the tests for this and as soon as I have we done it I will publish the results and instructions what to change and how to do it. Than everybody can test this for themselfs on the dyno. Regards tiger PS: I have removed my FAST and sold it for precisely that reason! | ||
| Jerseyguy |
Several years back, I designed & CNC'd an aluminum copy of the stock rubber stack for my '03 XB9. It seemed like a good idea at the time. I had it tested on Tilley's Dyno. It showed identical results when compared to the stock rubber one. It's only value was bling. I sold it on eBay for 1/10th of what it cost me to fabricate. | ||
| Teddagreek |
Not a lot of bang for the buck.. I do like how some of the newer liter bikes the stacks lower and lengthen at certain RPM for max HP and Torque. Maybe some one could figure out a way to make it work with the exhaust servo.. Anyways Here a bike with a with and without a stack.... Stock isn't really good and after market so far from what I've seen isn't much better..  PHOTO VIA NRHS | ||
| Starter |
Snorkel is not the same thing as stack. | ||
| Lost_in_ohio |
another point.....but didn't the snorkel disappear on all models after 04 or 05??? | ||
| Glitch |
Yep | ||
| Ejiii |
I can see why an aluminum copy of the stock stack would not do anything. A material change has no effect. What I can't understand is why Jens at Hillbilly Motors would waste all that development time and money then run the FAST system on his race bikes if it was no good. | ||
| Livnlo |
firebolt eric_ma has the fast system ask him how it works | ||
| Trojan |
Most of the advantage of the FAST system when the test was done was that it was the only system at that time using an open airbox. Since that test was done there have been a number of open airbox solutions available that will show increases of around the same or better than the FAST system did back then. It would appear that the velocity stck material/shape only becomes an issue at high revs and for peak power, and even then it is a very small difference. Johnson Engine Technology also have an aluminium velocity stack that they use on their race bike and you can see this on their web site at http://www.jetroadracing.com/racing_pages/parts/bu ell_engine_parts.html. Their web site makes interesting reading  | ||
| Typeone |
that dyno graph above is misleading without the accompanying text. they were testing stack vs. no stack... but called it a snorkel in part of the info. "XB Intake Velocity Stack Ever wonder what that factory intake stack on your XB is good for? (dyno graph here) This was done on a 2003 Buell XB9R (somewhat modified obviously). There were no other changes to the bike's tune between these two pulls other than the snorkel was in place for the red pull and removed for the blue pull." | ||
| Jerseyguy |
'twas a thing of beauty, but to no avail.  | ||
| Jetrider802 |
Here is a picture of our J.E.T. SportStack as linked above. We currently only have one for a 9, but we are in the process of designing one for the 12. Hopefully it will come out in May sometime.  | ||
| Treadmarks |
I bet the aluminum stack amplifies the intake noise, and the rubber stack helps to reduce the intake noise. I like the noise and would like to try the aluminum stack with my American Sport Bike open air setup. | ||
| Jerseyguy |
I never noticed any difference in sound levels until I completely removed the inner airbox cover. | ||
| Telewoodski |
I'd like to add the aluminum stack to my setup, add the open air system from American Sport Bike, and a clear tank cover. If the plastic cover for the open air system was clear, you could see the aluminum stack. Should be some pretty cool bling. | ||
| Xl1200r |
Jetrider, Is it just me? Or does that stack look so high that airbox cover would essentially block it off? | ||
| Nasty73z |
I always wished Al could have molded the top plate for the open airbox kit from thick Lexan so you could see the stack. Would be super cool and add more bling factor. | ||
| Metalstorm |
Lexan would be very cool. Then of course, everyone would suddenly want the aluminum stack and it would be the next best thing since sliced bread  | ||
| Jwhite601 |
I have a clear lexan on mine(homemade of course). If i could figure out how to make the picture file smaller, i'd post a pic. I think it cost me around $8 to make it. | ||
| Jwhite601 |
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| Buelltroll |
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| Nasty73z |
Jwhite, Does your plate have the inverted nipple? I thought about just cutting one out of a solid sheet but the nipple is worth some horsepower. | ||
| Wazza |
I tried a shorter stack - from another manufacture and it did not improve my throttle response nor help with the mid range power dip. The theory sounds ok, shorter runners develop more torque in manifolds etc but it does not work in this case. I got rid of my Buell race kit muffler and got rid of mid range power dip. | ||
| Jetrider802 |
Xl1200r, the stack is as high up as we could put it with out it restricting air-flow. it will facilitate over 105hp. we ran it all last year on our xb9 that was converted to a 12. when we get back from the moto-st race at daytona we will be working on one for a xb12 throttle body. Wazza, your power dip in the midrange is result of 2 things. 1 unrestrictive muffle and the large exhaust port on the stock head. velocity stacks only help tune intake signal and wave lengths. All in an effort to get more cylinder fill throughout the rpm range. they cant help with poor cylinder head and exhaust design. | ||
| Nuerburgringer |
At the time of the Brion-James debacle, the XB12 airbox did not exist. His performance claims were somewhat true because his stack was sold together with an airbox dimple that just happened to be similar to the XB12 box which was introduced in '04. We soon discovered that a stock XB9 velocity stack in conjunction with the XB12 airbox (on an XB9 motor of course) were so close in performance to the Brion-James set-up that there was no point in spending the extra money. I bought the Brion-James for my (then new)'03 XB9, to try to get rid of the awful race-kit-induced midrange hole, back when his solution was the only one available. I have since owned two more race-kitted XB9s, both with stock stack and XB12 airbox. Works the same, possibly a bit better. I am stunned that the Brion-James "Dracula" thread has once again risen from the dead. I though we'd given it the stake long ago... | ||
| Bads1 |
Umm the XB12 was out when debacle was going on because I owned one. But at the same token nobody had thought of putting a 12 airbox lid on a 9 at that time. | ||
| Nuerburgringer |
<umm the XB12 was out when debacle was going on because I owned one. But at the same token nobody had thought of putting a 12 airbox lid on a 9 at that time > That's likely true. I bought the Brion-James kit in late 2003, and the story broke shortly after. Point is, there were not a lot of options at the time, and his theory seemed plausible, briefly. <velocity stacks only help tune intake signal and wave lengths. All in an effort to get more cylinder fill throughout the rpm range. they cant help with poor cylinder head and exhaust design.> I'm no engineer, but my layperson's experience certainly confirms that. (Message edited by nuerburgringer on February 16, 2007) (Message edited by nuerburgringer on February 16, 2007) |
