| Author | Message | ||
     Bross |
Just wanted your opinion on a bike for our son. Luke is 16, has been driving for 2 years and riding dirt bikes for the past 5 years. He currently rides a KTM 200SX 2 stroke. He saw the Lightning long at the bike show and now wants one. There aren't a lot of sport bikes he fits on as he's 6'1". Luke is a conservative rider who doesn't take stupid chances. He does ride aggressively in the dirt when he's on familiar ground. Jodie (my wife) rides a Ninja 650R a parallel twin that is a great bike but definitely doesn't have the power or hit of the 4 cyl sport bikes. He's been bugging Mom to sell me your bike and then you can go buy a new bike. Until he saw the XB12SS. I think he would be OK on it, knowing his riding style and ability. Do you think it's too much bike for a first time street rider? He's signed up for the MSF course in the spring. Thanks for any input. | ||
| Wolfridgerider |
I don't think it will be to much bike, as long as he keeps his head on straight. That would be my biggest concern. | ||
| Altima02 |
No one over the internet can tell you what is right for your son. You know him, you make the decision. I personally think that if you feel your 16-year old is mature enough for a motorcycle, than it really wont matter the type. haha. Obviously, you should check out the bike for yourself. And I am so tired of hear "Oh, I'm 6'1 or 6'2, I HAD to get a 1000cc bike. I wouldn't fit on the smaller ones" That has to be the lamest excuse ever. The engine is bigger, not the bike! except for a few minor differences, a 1000cc superbike isn't hardly any bigger than a 600cc. You 6'1 son would fit just fine on a 500 ninja. Don't use size as an excuse to get a bigger bike. BTW, your a cool dad. WOW. | ||
| Jiffy |
Like posted above no one can really tell you what is best on the internet. It comes down to the choices the rider makes on their own. I would suggest your son put some serious miles on the 650R before getting on the XB. Street riding is inherently different than riding on the dirt. Many of the principles carry over but traffic alone adds much to the mix. The 650R would be a good bike for him to get experience on and build good habits before moving up to the XB. The 650R should have more than enough power for a beginner to the street. I have ridden my Ninja 250 for 4 years and still find joy every time I ride it. | ||
| Bross |
Oh I know about the size thing. That's really got nothing to do with the choice. There's no way he's getting a liter bike, or a 600 superbike for that matter. He likes Mom's Ninja 650R, but she really doesn't want to get rid of it. It's the perfect starter bike, and still has enough go to be fun when you wind it up. I like twins and their power delivery. I have only demo'd a Uly but I'm sure it would be similar to the Long as far as power delivery etc. Am I totally out to lunch by thinking that the XBs are "safer" than a 600/1000 supersport. I just think the XBs have smoother power delivery and not the "hit" of a supersport. It's kinda hard to say no to them riding, when both my wife and I live on our bikes once the snows gone. Good points jiffy. We're not as concerned about HIS riding ability, he's a good rider, but just his awareness etc.  (Message edited by bross on February 09, 2007) (Message edited by bross on February 09, 2007) | ||
| Lost_in_ohio |
Even if the 12SS does not fit the defacto definition of liter bike it is still 1200cc. I believe an XB12 is too much bike for a 16 year old. Far as that goes I believe all the buells except the blast are more bike than most 16 year old have any business driving. Plus check insurance rates for the bike before you buy......Buells tend to be significantly more than most bikes to insure. On a bike it doesn't have to be his mistake to get in an accident. | ||
| Bross |
Insurance won't be an issue. Our regular insurance company won't insure Jodie's Ninja 650R just because they see the name Ninja. So we have to insure it with our high risk carrier along with the dirt bikes, quads etc. And we don't put collision on any of the bikes so we pretty much pay the same for all the bikes. I'm hearing all of you though, so looks like Jodie may be bike shopping... | ||
| Blackxb9 |
Not to be cheesy and take a line from Spiderman but it's true in this case.."with great power, comes great responsibility." Personally I don't know any 16 yr. old responsible enough to handle that much responsibility, but I don't know your son. Peer pressure can make a kid do some crazy things that he or she wouldn't do in the presence of their parents. I look at any bike regardless of engine size as a loaded gun. If you know where to use it and how to respect it then it is safe. My son is only 6, but in 10 years I can't see him ready for that responsibility. But each kid is different and if you are even considering it he must be a good kid. Good luck with figuring this one out. I will probably have the same issue in 10 years. -Black | ||
| Gowindward |
A Ninja 250 would be a great starter street bike for a 16 year old or anyone of any age. There would be far more focus on riding than twisting the throttle. Plus it's $3k and not $11K | ||
| Freezerburn |
Bross- for a basic analogy, the XB is more akin to a XR 400 (imagine that it had wicked suspension though), a new Jap bike more like your son's Katoom. My experience is that I have owned and ridden many Japanese repli-racers, and have found my Buell to be the easiest and most fun of all. It for me embodies the true essence of a play bike (just for on the street). You can bee wickedly fast on these Buells though. And yes, the power delivery is much more predictable. There is certainly enough power to get your son into trouble, but I doubt he would feel that he is completely over his head. I am not the biggest fan of the new TT, but with an off-road background, it might be something your son might really dig. Check it out. | ||
| Saberworks |
A couple of years ago I bought my first street motorcycle, a ninja250. I am really, really glad I started there. The bike is very light and simple mistakes at stop signs and whatnot... not even a concern, because if the bike starts to fall over, it's really easy to just catch. I've seen so many beginner riders drop their bikes due to silly mistakes. Plus, the 250 goes a hundred miles an hour. It was fast enough that I wasn't even pushing it until I'd had it for a few months. It also gets extremely good gas mileage, which wasn't as much of a concern for me, but it might be for a high schooler! Once I was yearning for more power, I sold it and borrowed my dad's KLX 650 dual sport. The power and torque was significantly better, but not so much better that it was scary. I rode that for a few months until I bought my lighting long. I will just tell you, the difference was nothing short of staggering. Power off the line and basically at any time was just so much faster than I was used to. The first few weeks, I was nervous that I was going to dump it just because it accelerated very quickly (I live in western WA and the roads are wet, covered in gravel and fir needles, etc. - I kept spinning the back tire). Now, after a few months of ownership, I am very comfortable with the power and I enjoy it (barring all the mechanical problems I've mentioned in other threads). But I would definitely recommend starting with something smaller. Get a 500R or a 650R used for a few grand, let him ride that for a year and then move up. | ||
| Xl1200r |
Not to be cheesy and take a line from Spiderman but it's true in this case.."with great power, comes great responsibility." Personally I don't know any 16 yr. old responsible enough to handle that much responsibility, but I don't know your son. Peer pressure can make a kid do some crazy things that he or she wouldn't do in the presence of their parents. I look at any bike regardless of engine size as a loaded gun. If you know where to use it and how to respect it then it is safe. My son is only 6, but in 10 years I can't see him ready for that responsibility. But each kid is different and if you are even considering it he must be a good kid. Good luck with figuring this one out. I will probably have the same issue in 10 years. These are my thought exactly. I don't care how responsible your son is - I was the same way when I was teenager - he's still going to make stupid mistakes as we ALL did/still do. This is nothing against your son - it's just part of being a teenage male. I had a pretty hot Monte Carlo in high school - Corvette engine and the whole nine. I drove it like a grandma all the time. But it still scared the hell out of me when I decided to show off for my girlfriend and go 135mph and the master cylinder failed on the brakes. Part of being young is pushing things to their limits (whether it be machines or your parents - am I wrong?) Better off giving him something that has much lower limits. | ||
| Imonabuss |
Well, I am always concerned about a new rider, but without a doubt an XB is more forgiving and more relaxed than a 600/1000 superbike. Does that make it safer? I'm not sure, but the frantic engine response and power of the Japanese Supersports/ Superbikes always gets me riding too fast. They just don't feel right if you are out for a relaxing ride or commute, while my Citycross does feel fine then. The 12 is bigger than the 9, but doesn't feel much faster. But, it surely is hard making choices for kids growing up though, especially when they are in their teens. It's great that at least he has a lot of time on dirt bikes. Is he going to take any street training courses? Any advice he might pick up there could be valuable. | ||
| Bross |
Yes he's taking our Motorcycle Safety Course, through the local Safety council. Same as your MSF course. It's a full 3 day course, 8 hours a day. I really struggling with this decision. I believe that he would be fine on the XB12, just knowing him and his personality, experience, etc. I still worry about him being on the street, only because I ride on the street every day and it's not me that I need to worry about, nothing any of you don't already know. I know the 650R is a very easy, forgiving bike to ride and a perfect beginner bike. But it also goes very well. I just checked the hard numbers on Motorcyclist and there isn't a heck of a lot of difference between the 650R and the XB12. The Ninja actually beats the XB in top gear roll ons and is only a half second slower in the quarter mile. I guess I just asked the question here because I don't have any experience riding an XB. You have confirmed for me that it does have a nice smooth power delivery, which I figured. I have also heard that when you're going fast on a Buell, it feels fast. That's good. I find myself going way too fast on my BMW because it doesn't feel fast, whereas when I get my meanstreak up to 90MPH, it feels like it. Thanks for everyone's input so far. | ||
| Drfudd |
Knowing what I was like when I was 16 I would defiantly want to find out how fast it'll go the first day I take it out! But now that I'm a little older and a lot wiser I haven't even tried to see how fast my bike goes. I own a 2007 XB12Ss and I'm a new rider, the last time I rode a bike before this one I was 12 years old riding small dirt bikes. I personally wouldn't let anyone ride a bike on the street without taking a MSF course, I took it and it was worth every penny, I'm signing up for the expert course in march. All this talk about how a beginner should stay away from a big engine is non-sense to me, power is all about how much you roll on the throttle, looking back on it I would defiantly recommend a bike that will scare the crap out of him with so much power so that he quickly learns to respect the motorcycle. The rational behind that is that if the bike scares you because of its power you won't be tempted to find out how fast it'll go because you know it'll go faster than you can. Thats my logic if it makes sense. Would I recommend the bike to a beginner? yes I would. There isn't too many surprises when riding it, there is noticeable engine brake and thats about the only thing that I had to get used to with such a large displacement engine. The power delivery is predictable, the handling is superb and the braking is perfect. | ||
| Olinxb12r |
I would say that the any XB is not a good bike for a person to start on, and especially not a 16 year old. I started riding dirtbikes at 4 years old, and I was not ready to handle an XB regardless of whether it was a 9 or a 12 at 16. Just think about what these bikes are capable of, and realize that a 16 year old will try to push it to that limit. I'm 26, and I push my bike to the limit, but I'm not under my parents roof anymore. An XB12 is capable of speeds around 145 mph, and wheelies in the first 4 gears!!!!!!! I ride third gear standup wheelies all the time, and I would have done it at 16 without having the skills that I do now and wrecked terribly. At some point I'll probably wreck now, but it is on my own time and under my own responsibility because I am old enough to make my own decisions. Your son is not. Good luck! | ||
| Bross |
Thanks Drfudd and Olinxb12r for the totally different opinions! :-) He's definitely used to power riding his KTM. That bloody thing will wheelie my fat arse in 1st, 2nd, 3rd, and 4th gear and when it hits it's power band it hits! You really have to hang on! I get scared on the KTM but he rides it very well. Like I said in my first post, he rides aggressively but not stupid. Olin, you sound a lot like me. Heck I'm 45 and I still push my bike to limits I shouldn't. I demo'd a Multistrada last year and the salesman asked if I wanted to buy it? "Nope I replied, cause if I did I would kill myself on it, I just don't have the self control." And that's what's kinda funny (or sad) here is cause Luke has more self control than I do when it comes to riding. | ||
| Glitch |
If you're going to be riding with him until you're confident in his street ability, I can't see why not. Not sure if it were my son I'd let him off on his own for a while. But that's just me. My son is scaring MrsG with "when I ride" talk, but she rests easier knowing when he rides, he's riding with me. | ||
| Bross |
Yep he would be spending lots of time riding with us, for sure. He's going to be riding and if we said no, he would be out doing it on his own in another year anyway. We might as well get him started and at least we get to have a little influence over him and hopefully plant some good habits. | ||
| Xl1200r |
All this talk about how a beginner should stay away from a big engine is non-sense to me, power is all about how much you roll on the throttle, looking back on it I would defiantly recommend a bike that will scare the crap out of him with so much power so that he quickly learns to respect the motorcycle. The rational behind that is that if the bike scares you because of its power you won't be tempted to find out how fast it'll go because you know it'll go faster than you can. Thats my logic if it makes sense. Not to discount what you're saying (because I argee at the core of it), but to a 16 year old that races dirt bikes, going wide open on the throttle doesn't take too much balls. I mean, really - anyone can go fast in a straight line. The dirt track doesn't have drunk driver blasting through red lights - that's where the speeds kill. You're rational doesn't make sense to me. I mean, I do see where you're coming from, but if you're scared of how fast your bike is, it shoudln't be your bike. At some point (ESPECIALLY with a teenager/20-something) you're going to open it up regardless and that's when you stop controlling the bike and the bike controls you. I have no doubt in your son's abilities, but the street is a whole different world than the dirt. Not really any more or less difficult, but certainly more deadly - mistakes cost a lot more. I would think something like a dual-sport or a super-motard would the PERFECT first bike for him - a dirt bike for the street. There will be virtually no learning curve for the bike itself, and he can concentrate on getting "street smart". Super-motards are way cool bikes anyways. | ||
| Gentleman_jon |
My sentiments, exactly.  | ||
| Altima02 |
I think if you can trust him with a powerful bike, than the Buell would be a great bike for him. If he likes the buell, and so do you, then I think thats decision has been made. Now, like I said, The real decision should be should he have a bike like that, or maybe a GS500 or a blast? If you think he is ready for a bigger bike, then the buell actually would be a great choice, as opposed to any Japanese sport bikes. IMO | ||
| Stealthxb |
Bross... The following statement: I just think the XBs have smoother power delivery and not the "hit" of a supersport. Is right on. The predictable power of the V-twin engine make it a better decision than the Ninja. From what I can tell, I believe your son will be fine on the 12. As long as he is well prepared with full gear and the MSF class, his riding history and your tutelage should be plenty to prepare him for the streets. Xl1200r was a little off with his statement: Part of | ||
| Brumbear |
Please just take into consideration that an rm 250 or ktm 200 dirt racer or any of them, 2 or 4 stroke are geared for about 75 mph tops and on an xb12ss thats cruising speed with plenty in the tail.This machine will jump to 100mph in the blink of an eye so will just about any street bike or even motard today, as before posted only you know your son I have a 19 year old as well he is smart kid smarter than I ever was but I say this about him and all of his friends mens bodies and little boy heads can make a dangerous mix smart or not. So as a parent I would side with caution. | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
I have a slightly more moderate viewpoint. Your son is 16. You have plenty of time and life to live. There is absolutely no rush. Because he is used to dirt bikes and the way that they feel, why not look at a SM or large DS. What about a used KLR or XR650L? You could even do the DR400SM. All are fairly inexpensive, powerful, and similar in ride to his KTM. You could buy one and let him get used to street riding, which is inherently different than off road as you know. In 6-12 months, flip it for virtually no loss in value and buy something with more displacement. Going straight from off road to street can create problems. It did for me. I had to get used to the street. Part of it was getting used to being with other vehicles. It adds a completely different dimension to the level of awareness required. I'm sure he is a great and mature kid, but there is simply very little margin of error for what we do. The additional power, inexperience, immaturity, and invincibility can conspire to create a no win scenario. There is time. Go slowly. Allow him to move up as his experience (not just abilities) increase. I'm sure I'm a fuddy-duddy! | ||
| Molly_hatchet |
thats a big ass bike for a 16 y/o if i had something like that at 16 id be pushin up daisies...my RD 250 was more than enough for me....then the 400 ....then moved onward and upward....having ridden and raced dirt bikes for years before i rode on the street....there is no comparision...2 different animals....maybe something along the lines of a ktm supermoto type would be good for the kid.....anywhoo my 2 cents...way to much of a bike for any begginer the street is a war and riding dirt gives u some bad habits when crossed over to the street. | ||
| Tdiddy |
Buy him a smaller bike and see how he does. When I was 16 and got my moms mustang around the corner...She always complaned about how the car went through rear tires and I was a good kid. | ||
| Xb9er |
As well as a buell handles he'll be fine. | ||
| Murdoch |
Sure wish my dad put me on a Buell when I was 16.................. | ||
| Bross |
Hey thanks for all the replies. I was pretty much set to go buy him one but talking to Jodie about it last night, she really doesn't want the stress of worrying about him riding on the street. She worries enough about him driving his F150 around here in the winter! He's signed up for the Motorcycle Safety course this summer so we'll get him through that and then he can get his Class 6. But Jodie said he can just take out her 650R on rides with me, she doesn't want to be along. He's working for a construction company part time now and will be full time over the summer, so we're hoping he'll be busy enough that when he does get the odd day off, he'll just go dirt biking. Then next year we're off to BC (yeah) and he'll probably be staying here because of the economy etc. so he can decide then if he wants a bike or not. How's that for sidestepping the issue eh! :-) |
