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Jlnance
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 30, 2007 - 10:49 pm: | 
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FX & Eboos, take a look at this:
http://www.hpcoatings.com/products/lubritic.aspx#p ec
Click on the performance engine coatings link
(Message edited by jlnance on January 30, 2007) |
Cycleaddict
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 31, 2007 - 12:14 am: |
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airplanes have constant airflow over the cooling fins ,& no stoplights or traffic jams to deal with ! as for water cooling or not on a future buell ---I don't care ! shorter stroke & and a "modern" crankshaft would be a good thing tho. (keep the flywheel weight for tractability) |
Pushrodpete
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 31, 2007 - 12:20 am: |
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Why does no one ever debate COUNTERBALANCING???
I don't care how it's cooled, but think of the overall weight savings if every part didn't have to be overbuilt up to keep from cracking due to vibes... |
Photon7p
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 31, 2007 - 12:46 am: |
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...as far as airplanes using air cooled engines you've got to take in the account that the temperature at the altitudes that they cruise at are extremely low if not near freezing...so they don't really have to worry about heat |
Sloppy
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 31, 2007 - 02:02 am: |
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I enjoy these topics so forgive my mental masturbation...
For STREET vehicles, air cooled engines are the way to go. More reliable, easier to maintain, lighter (per unit displacement), less prone to catastrophic failure (hence their use in airplanes).
But for RACE vehicles, water cooled is the way to go. BUT, if I was to build a race vehicle, I would NEVER choose a 4-stroke. Instead it would be a 2-stroke.
So, the message is that if you feel that bikes should be water cooled, it's still a sacrifice as your hampered by the slow and inefficent 4-stroke engine. Bottom line, is that it is a compromise -- some people like the reliability of an air cooled engine with a corresponding sacrifice in power. Others like to have greater complexity with a corresponding increase in power. Of course, the true die hard slaves to power live life on the razor edge and ride a TZ250 on NITROUS (old Formula rules?) Yea, that's what I'm talk'n about - forget the water cooled OTTO!
For what it's worth, Porsche did build air cooled engines with greater power than water cooled engines of the same displacement (early 80's?). Of course, they only lasted a race weekend, but they made their point -- air cooled (if properly designed) could compete with water cooled.
From my experience I have NEVER had a failure of an air cooled engine -- and I've raced them on Motard Tracks, Dirt Tracks, MotoCross and Road Circuits. With a water cooled engine I've had tossed rods through the block, blown head gaskets, leaking water pumps, split coolant hoses, leaky radiators and the dreaded oily water. I've had enough shares of delayed and stranded trips that I'm convinced in the simplicity of design of the air cooled engine. Who ever thought that water and oil would mix???
Water cooled will make more power, but air cooled will be more reliable. Hey, pick your poison. If you ride with the trottle at WOT all day, then yea, you'd want a water cooled bike. If you ride on the streets then yea, an air cooled bike makes sense.
Look at this way, if a rock took out the cooling fins on your XB, you'd still be able to ride it home. If a rock takes out a radiator on a water cooled vehicle, you're screwed!
Hey, to each their own, but if power is what you are truely after, then toss away that incredibly slow 4stroke snail and get an engine that can truely develop power. Imagine a 1200cc two stroke on your light weight XBR -- YEA BABY! You've already got the oil tank!!!
Wheh, thanks for letting me get off -- you were great! |
Buellshyter
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 31, 2007 - 05:02 pm: |
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Barbero was a beautiful animal exploited by its owners and only kept alive because of the possible future stud fees .
That's sort of a cheap shot. True, if the horse was a common nag they would not have spent thousands of dollars trying to save it but to say the horse was exploited. I dunno...isn't racing a horse exploitive to begin with? |
Ft_bstrd
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 31, 2007 - 05:55 pm: |
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If you got paid to "stud", would you feel exploited?  |
Thespive
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 31, 2007 - 06:26 pm: |
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I am sure they took him to the clinic to fill up a few cups for the future. Its all artificial insemination anyway.
--Sean |
Ducxl
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 31, 2007 - 07:12 pm: |
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Its all artificial insemination anyway.
sorry,but that's an inaccurate statement.My wife is a lifelong dressage equestrian who just corrected."Thoroughbred" horses must be live fertilization,and all these stud books are carefully recorded.And if you want to talk "Arabians" it's even more intensely documented.
She also scolded me for my comments about beating a dead horse,then saying it was Barbero.
But in this thread i see more,uhh
 Mr.Ed |
Xl1200r
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 31, 2007 - 08:50 pm: |
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If you got paid to "stud", would you feel exploited?
I think I'd feel exploded. |
Thespive
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 31, 2007 - 08:57 pm: |
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Well my apologies to your wife, I was referring to the episode of Dirty Jobs where Mike had to collect horsie goo. Something about mating being to dangerous because they don't want a prize horse to be kicked and injured in the act.
--Sean |
Ft_bstrd
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 31, 2007 - 09:24 pm: |
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No. I think they wanted to see what it would take to get a goofy TV guy to ram a turkey baster into a horse's cooch.
Not much, as it turns out.
I love that show. |
Buellshyter
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 31, 2007 - 09:27 pm: |
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The Jockey Club is the breed registry for all Thoroughbred horses in North America. As such, it is responsible for maintaining The American Stud Book, which includes all Thoroughbreds foaled in the United States, Canada and Puerto Rico as well as Thoroughbreds imported into those countries from nations around the world that maintain similar Thoroughbred registries.
To be eligible for registration, a foal must be the result of a stallion’s Breeding with a broodmare (which is the physical mounting of a broodmare by a stallion with intromission of the penis and ejaculation of semen into the reproductive tract). As an aid to the Breeding, a portion of the ejaculate produced by the stallion during such mating may immediately be placed in the uterus of the broodmare being bred. A natural gestation must take place in, and delivery must be from, the body of the same broodmare in which the foal was conceived. Without limiting the above, any foal resulting from or produced by the processes of Artificial Insemination, Embryo Transfer or Transplant, Cloning or any other form of genetic manipulation not herein specified, shall not be eligible for registration. |
Ft_bstrd
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 31, 2007 - 09:41 pm: |
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Huh, huh. Huh, huh.
He said intromission! |
Crusty
| | Posted on Thursday, February 01, 2007 - 05:21 am: |
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How'd this topic drift from water cooling to methods of horse impregnation? 
I've seen some weird drifts, but this one sets a new standard.
(Message edited by Crusty on February 01, 2007) |
Ducxl
| | Posted on Thursday, February 01, 2007 - 09:11 am: |
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Crusty...aren't you glad it did change to horse impregnation? The original topic only serves to divide us and cause argument.I'm an ardent supporter of BOTH air and watercooling.But advocates for watercooling Buells only attract derision.
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Bumblebee
| | Posted on Thursday, February 01, 2007 - 12:39 pm: |
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Horse insemination? We need more horses. More pretty ones that run fast.
The thread? That…
Water cooling has a couple of distinct advantages: The engine runs cooler and at a controlled temperature. Tighter tolerances and longer life are primary benefits, also the engine can be tuned to get more of that (all important) power while retaining longevity.
Water cooling is more efficient; coolant is a better conductor of heat.
But it’s bigger, weighs more, requires a radiator, water pump, cooling fan, hoses and all sorts of other stuff, things that would take away from the character of our Buell. It also would require an entire redesign of the engine and frame. The result would be a larger motorcycle that would loose the charm of what we have now. It would cause major $$$ to do this and since our engines are based on the Sportster, unless there is an entire Sportster redesign I can’t see that happening any time soon. Eventually they will have to do it to meet emissions requirements, and for all I know they may be working on it now, but only time will tell. |
45_degrees
| | Posted on Friday, February 02, 2007 - 12:17 am: |
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"Eventually they will have to do it to meet emissions requirements"
Liquid-cooled engines are far dirtier (relatively) during warm up because it takes them much longer to get to full operating temperature.
The Thunderstorm engine passes current and future emissions requirements that other so-called "high-tech" engines would fail without their catalytic converters.
The Thunderstorm does not use a catalytic converter. |
45_degrees
| | Posted on Friday, February 02, 2007 - 01:34 am: |
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Duc... seeing so much in your posts in more than one thread is quite comical (not being sarcastic)and makes me chuckle. It's almost to use . So I'll say it too... to say liquid-cooling is a magical answer and also say anyone that disagrees is showing derision is . I could turn it around and say the pro-liquid guys are showing derision and treat air-cooled engines as such. To continue with air-cooled is not , but arguing about it is . So in that case, would be appropriate. |
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