| Author | Message | ||
     Misato |
anyone heard when they are going to be out? dyno charts? price? | ||
| Twodogs |
misato,you got mail | ||
| Aaron |
Yes, the pipe is available, both as a standard Streetfigher and in the NRHS Signature Series version, which is what I recommend. Dyno charts will be posted shortly. | ||
| Aaron |
Okay, here's the chart:  More info here. One thing I need to mention, as of this moment, the pipe is causing a slight off-idle stumble on the bike we've been testing it on. We haven't been able to tune it out yet. It's a pretty minor thing, and it's all cleared up by 2000rpm, but potential buyers of the pipe should know about it. This is the reason we've been holding back the pipe, but we decided it's minor enough and the pipe performs so well that we ought to go ahead with it. Curiously, the XB12 is not showing the same problem. Also, this pipe's flow far exceeds the race ecm's ability to deal with it, a Power Commander with O2 sensor is mandatory. | ||
| Phillyblast |
Am I reading that right? 14 hp with a pipe and a PC? That's too cool. | ||
| Misato |
that chart brings a tear to my eye.. are you going to sell it as a kit? the O2/P.C./pipe | ||
| Jasonblue |
Any one have pictures of the force pipe? Hows it look? | ||
| Aaron |
Man, I was wondering when someone was going to notice that chart, was beginning to think y'all were asleep! I think that's amazing that you can pick up that much power across the board and nearly 14hp on top with a pipe and an electronic re-jet. Far as I know, nobody else is getting this kind of an improvement with their XB9 pipe. Kit? You bet, we'll do it as a kit, no problem! Jason, I'll try to get a picture this week. High Country has helped us out tremendously with sorting out these pipes and getting them to work, we've been putting them on their bikes, and I just haven't had the opportunity yet to get a picture. but I will. | ||
| Jasonblue |
Aaron, High Country is in Colorado correct? A picture would be great. So are the Force exhausts available now, and do they have a web site? What exactly do you mean by stumble off idle? | ||
| Aaron |
Yes, High Country is here in Colorado. Yes, Force has a web site. We work with Force and offer a variation on the standard "Streetfighter" pipe with changes specifically tailored to high horsepower bikes. That's what's in the dyno sheet above. I'll work on getting a picture. These were prototypes, though. We're ready to take orders on the pipes, but we have no stock yet. There will be a lead time, not sure how much. You MUST use the Power Commander and O2 sensor, no way around it. The bike runs like crap without it. | ||
| Captainplanet |
Aaron, Are you running the Power Commander with the race ecm or the stock one? Jeff | ||
| Aaron |
We're running the Power Commander with the stock ECM. | ||
| Torqd |
torque? | ||
| Roc |
Is it as loud as the force tube frame exhaust system? | ||
| Misato |
I'd like to see the torque chart too.. and a pic 8o) | ||
| Aaron |
I'm not at the computer that has the dynorun files and Winpep, so y'all will have to wait. But, the horsepower is higher at all rpm's, so the torque must be higher as well, right? I mean, there's a fixed relationship between torque, rpm, and horsepower. You can pick any horsepower point on that chart, multiply it by 5252 and then divide it by the rpm, presto you have the torque. It has a dip, but obviously it's higher across the board than the stock system Personally I don't give a rat's ass about the torque, because torque by itself says nothing about performance. Torque only describes performance when you multiply it by rpm, and when you do that, you call it horsepower. The only thing I find useful about a torque curve is it shows me what the cylinder fill looks like, which is useful information for tuning. Yeah, it's loud! Sounds sweet. Bottom line is that a reverse cone megaphone diffuses the wave without introducing back-pressure like a baffle does. Which makes it work better. But it also doesn't have the noise attentuation the baffle offers. | ||
| Captainplanet |
go to this link for the torque charts. http://highcountryharley.com/Buell/flashindex.htm | ||
| Aaron |
No, that page shows the XB12 versus the stock 984cc bike and also versus the race kitted 984cc bike. That XB12 *does* have the NRHS/Force pipe and Power Commander, but it also has a couple hundred extra cc, so it's not a pipe comparison. What I showed here on this page is a stock 984cc bike with and without the NRHS/Force pipe. I'll get y'all a torque sheet later, I promise. Here's a few pictures to hold you over in the meantime:   The bike pictured is actually the XB12. Like I said, the pipe is also available in black. We highly recommend getting the baffle, we tested with and without it and it runs a little better with. It doesn't really baffle much, though, don't expect it to make the bike quiet. I'll put together a "kit", with one part number for the pipe, baffle, O2 sensor, and Power Commander pre-programmed with the map we came up with for this combination. | ||
| Misato |
sweetholymotherf@*k how about a shot from the other side? add a O2 to the "kit" also? or is that part of the power commander. Does the PC take the place of the stock ECU? you dont need the race ECU correct? thanks. | ||
| Aaron |
No, a Power Commander does not replace the stock ECM, it supplements it. The Power Commander mapping will be different depending on whether the bike is equipped with a stock or race ecm. Dynojet offers an optional high performance oxygen sensor. The Power Commander needs this optional sensor in order to control the injection when in closed loop mode. The Power Commander's map is different depending on whether you're using the high performance O2 sensor. So as you can see, the 4 possible combinations of stock ecm versus race ecm and stock O2 sensor versus high performance O2 sensor each requires a different map. The mapping that we're offering for this pipe is for the stock ECM with the optional high performance O2 sensor. That's the configuration we developed and recommend. A shot from the other side? The bike is in window at HCHD and I couldn't have got a decent picture of that side without taking it down off their display platform, sorry. | ||
| Dave |
man ohhh man After riding a stock XB9S and checking out those dyno charts...I'm going over 'ifs' in my mind. If I sell the S1W or ....  DAve | ||
| Misato |
ahh, I understand now. one other question, does the re-map change for altitude? or does the stock ecu compensate for that. or is that a dumb question, not sure on the closed/open loop modes.. yeah, I wanted to see how the pipe comes out, off to the side and up? thanks | ||
| Roc |
Is it possible to have two settings programmed into the Power Commander and a corresponding baffle set up for the Force exhaust? 1st setting for loud/power and 2nd setting for ok power and mellow sound. Push a button/flip a lever and you get to go from one to the other. Just an idea. | ||
| Aaron |
Misato, yes, it installs just like any other pipe, but you do have to rotate the motor down to R&R the header on an XB9. The elevations shouldn't be an issue, it's still injected. Rocky, honestly, the baffle didn't move things enough to make it necessary to remap anyway. And it's plenty loud and plenty powerful with it in there, like I said it actually runs a touch better with it. | ||
| Aaron |
As promised ...  | ||
| Roc |
Aaron - I have a Force system on my S1 and I think it is to loud for everyday use. I have the "street" baffle, which did not fit the pipe when I bought it, and it seems to make little difference in noise level. My Dad told me about an exhaust kit he had on a Honda in college, he called it a "snuff-or-not". Sounds like it was a washer which could be rotated to create restriction near the exhaust outlet, or left with the thin section parrellel to exhaust flow. My thought was to expand on this idea. A baffle that baffled, but which could be easily turned on or off. Home from the bars late, baffle on. Out of your own neighborhood, baffle off. Seems like it would play havoc with the engines fuel requirements, so I wondered if maybe 2 settings could be entered into the power commander. | ||
| Blake |
From 3,500 to 7,500 the stock bike's torque output varies by more than 12 FT-LBs where the NRHS Force Pipe w/PCIII bike varies less than 5 FT*LBs and for a much higher peak and average output! That is outstanding. I do know what Aaron is thinking though... I know I can get that midrange up some more ![:]](http://www.badweatherbikers.com/buell/clipart/proud.gif) | ||
| Daves |
How's the cornering clearance? I ground the one on the X1. If you need someone to test that I'll volunteer! Ride to the edge! Dave HD/Buell Cycle Center Waterloo Ia dave@iowaharley.com | ||
| Aaron |
Rocky, no, far as I know it has no such capability. Damn, Blake, you read my mind. Don't think we didn't try. But there comes a point in every product development when you just have to start shipping. I mean, the damn pipe works. Maybe our 2004 model will work better. Dave, LOL! You'll have to talk to High Country about that though, it's their bike  | ||
| Hoser |
So far no one has asked / mentioned how much fun it is to install the exhaust on XB series bikes or what a lovely time could be had by having to extract a sheared off exhaust stud. Why am I bothering to bring this up ? , Force pipes don't have the best of reputations when it comes to staying in one piece. The numbers are great Aaron , but numbers aren't everything . |
