| Author | Message | ||
     Dynarider |
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| Daves |
Roc, I sell both the D+D and the Wileyco. I have Wileyco in stock and am waiting on a couple D+Ds. Give me a call! Ride to the edge! Dave HD/Buell Cycle Center Waterloo Ia 1-800-342-7539 ext 14 dave@iowaharley.com | ||
| Daves |
Gee, I guess our dyno must be broken then  | ||
| Fasteddieb |
I'll speak up as someone who is perfectly happy with the Buell race muffler. I did not dyno the bike before or after, but subjectively it feels a bit softer below 4,000 rpm and a bit stronger from 4,000 rpm to redline. FWIW, I'm 53 and already have some measurable hearing loss and a mildly annoying ringing in my ears all the time. As someone once said, too many years of things that go bang and swoosh, including guns, airplanes, bikes and rock concerts cranked up to 11 (in the case of Spinal Tap). I can't imagine wanting a system LOUDER than the Buell race muffler. The couple of times I rode it without earplugs I found it nearly painful - or maybe it's just the pain of knowing my remaining hearing is being attacked. And try to remember the bike's "mission profile". In the N GA/TN/NC/VA/W VA mountains the bike has plenty of useful power. I find that if I keep the bike in the right gear to keep the revs around 5,000 coming out of a turn, I get a HARD pull to the next turn. Of course, it's not a HARD pull compared to a Hayabusa, or even an R6 Yamaha, but I find it relaxing to have just enough power and not worrying about wheelspin and/or wheelying when I roll on the throttle. Did I mention that I love the bike, warts and all? I'm REALLY looking forward to spring/summer in the mountains!  (Message edited by fasteddieb on May 10, 2003) | ||
| Fasteddieb |
Arrgh! Try that again (again)  | ||
| Dynarider |
Gee, I guess our dyno must be broken then When I get the chance later on I will look up some of your comments on the numbers you posted a while back. You yourself commented that you were dissapointed in the results. 5-6 hp was all you were picking up, I think you might have had 1 bike that got 7. | ||
| Blake |
Dyna, Show me another muffler that does better than 5 or six HP. I'm no huge fan of the race muffler, but your statements are very misleading. The entire race kit including ECM and filter for the XB9's is only $600. The Force pipe alone is what, $800? The D&D doesn't yield much if any boost to top end. Is it a shit muffler to? How many people spend any significant amount of time at 7,000 rpm and above on their Buell STREET bike? | ||
| Dynarider |
Heres that pic for the FREE mod done to a stock muffler. My statements on the "fetal pig is that its for the entire race kit 5-6 hp. Take the race ecm, filter & add a good D&D or a Force pipe..with the pc if thats what that pipe requires to work properly & they will outperform the Buell race can with no problem. I didnt realize there was a cost constraint here. If someone is gonna cough up over $600 for the buell stuff, why not just bite the bullet & go for the good stuff. You get what you pay for. | ||
| Dynarider |
Is this a 2nd generation Latus? I dont remember it looking like this at all. $399 & if you can get the 10% discount that puts it right in the "fetal pig" range.  Features: Gain up to 7 HP at 3000 rpm, 5 HP at peak rpm Slim, low profile design, looks less bulky than stock Lightweight – saves 4.8 lbs Stainless Steel muffler construction Easy installation using stock mounting brackets Includes mounts for chin fairing Needs no modification to fuel injection system Sounds great, and most importantly, has dual chrome tips | ||
| Daves |
Looks just like the one on the bolt I ride. Well less the burnt off paint on mine. Let's do the math, Latus 399.00 less 10% discount 359.10 Buell race muffler 359.00 Less 10% discount 323.10 36.00 difference, so yes, pretty close in price. So far the Latus has held up fine, other than the paint burning off it in the first 100 miles on the inlet(can't see it much with chin spoiler on) and melting around the rear mount. I hope they get their act together so I can feel good about selling more of them. 2 1/2 months to get 3 mufflers was a little more than I and my customers could stand. Ride to the edge! Dave HD/Buell Cycle center dave@iowaharley.com | ||
| Chainsaw |
What I'm looking for in a muffler: Being that I'm a cheap bastard, I want a $200-$300 slip -on that sounds mildly louder, delivers at least 5 more HP, and strong enough to put a jack under it, like the stock muffler. Till some fairy princess comes around to grant my wish, I think I'll stick with stock, or maybe do some cutting per Dyna's advice. | ||
| Dynarider |
Hmmm, a Gonzo Buell salesman who can get any exhaust he wants for his bike & chooses the Force for the X1 & the Latus for his lil bolt. What does that say about the "fetal pig"? | ||
| Blake |
According to Dave himself, it says that it is not loud enough, that the Force was not yet available for the XB9's and that he is more interested in top end racing performance. So 5 hp out the fetal pig is shit, but 5 hp out of the latus is wonderful? Okay, I see your point.  Your diagram is nicely illustrated. Not sure about the performance of basically a straight pipe though. Very doubtful it will equal that of the race muffler. Not sure how easily one could reliably accomplish such surgery. Not many posess their own welding shop. I don't. Maybe you have $1,200 for a Force pipe and PCIII, maybe others don't. Maybe you like ear shattering loud, maybe others don't. Chainsaw, I'd be real interested in the dyno rsults of a stock muffler modified per Dyna's diagram. (Message edited by blake on May 10, 2003) | ||
| Daves |
Well I do have an answer for that. I did run the Buell race can on the X1 for 1 1/2 years, then it broke, while I was on my way to meet with Erik at the factory. I had to wire it together, we had a track day in 2 days. Hoban's had a Force pipe for me. I put it on and never did fix the race muffler, I still have it. When I got the Firebolt Force didn't have a pipe yet and Doug's already had the Buell race muffler so I thought I'd try something different, so when people ask me about the different pipes available I would have SOME REAL WORLD advise for them as in I've ridden one with this pipe and that pipe and that pipe not just the usual "I heard/read on the internet" or, the ever popular "a guy I know says" I will probably end up with a Force pipe on mine since I like loud. I have a guy making me a header right now that might work out as well. Still lot's of trying stuff out to see what works and what doesn't. | ||
| Dynarider |
So 5 hp out the fetal pig is shit, but 5 hp out of the latus is wonderful? Not sure about the performance of basically a straight pipe though. Very doubtful it will equal that of the race muffler. Not sure how easily one could reliably accomplish such surgery. Not many posess their own welding shop. I don't. Maybe you have $1,200 for a Force pipe and PCIII, maybe others don't. Maybe you like ear shattering loud, maybe others don't The latus is supposedly good for 7hp not 5. But the it has the Buell hands down as a better pipe simply based on looks & sound. Yea I like to have my bike look good as most folks here do too. Loud?? I love a loud pipe, hell I run drag pipes with ar cones on my Dyna & I actually would like something louder.....I am definately not concerned with noise pollution or pissing off any neighbors. You arent sure about the performance of basically a straight pipe? What the hell do you think a Force is? Or a KT or Kooks for that matter. I think there is a lot more to be gained by increasing the header size..ala Force pipe..but for a no cost mod that can be utilized with the stock header pipe you can beat it. And you dont need a welding shop to do this, open it up with a dremel tool or even a jigsaw or sawzall with a metal cutting blade..just be neat about it & then take it to any local muffler shop when you are done...2 minutes & they can weld the end right back on..little shot of black bar-b-que paint & you wont be able to tell it was ever opened. $1200 for a Force pipe...yea thats a bit high right now but its gonna come down some. But the way I look at it. You already spent $2000 more than a 600 cc repli-racer..whats another thousand? A lot of the folks here have been thru numerous exhaust systems & a whole lot of custom or just plain oddball parts that they paid a lot of $$$ for. I think there would be more people willing to part with $1000-1200 for a guaranteed 12-14 hp increase rather than $600 for the Buell crap & get a meager 5-6hp. 6hp you wont even feel. 14 hp is a huge jump however. | ||
| Rick_a |
Dyna...there's a huge difference between a straight pipe and tuned system like a KT or Force... ...but I'm happy with my $200 car muffler. | ||
| Dynarider |
The Force is a tuned system..not so sure about the KT. | ||
| Blake |
Dyna, First you say the Latus yields 5hp on top, now it's 7hp. Okay, whatever. I haven't seen a comparative dyno of one yet so I cannot comment. I have seen one of the race kit versus stock. It makes better than 5hp on top from 5,500 to redline and at 3,000 rpm is more than 8 HP better than stock, but according to you it is shit and the Latus, a more expensive muffler for which we've not seen comparative dyno results is wonderful. Whatever. I'm arguing with a guy who claims the XB9's typically produce less than 70 RWHP in stock form. There really is no point is there. | ||
| Dynarider |
Come on Blake, you yourself have seen several Dyno charts that put a number of the XB's right in the hight 60's & at best stock they are doing what 73-75 hp? Not exactly earth shattering. | ||
| Dynarider |
Blake, I went thru & read my posts & nowhere did I state any hp numbers for the latus..have not seen a dyno chart so i cant comment on that pipe. All I have been discussing regarding that muffler is looks..cost..& sound level. | ||
| Dynarider |
Gee, I guess our dyno must be broken then Dave, you guys ever get any dyno numbers & graphs yet for the 1050 bikes? | ||
| Blake |
"Come on Blake, you yourself have seen several Dyno charts that put a number of the XB's right in the hight 60's & at best stock they are doing what 73-75 hp? Not exactly earth shattering. No Dynamoat, I have not. Every XB9 dyno run I've seen that was run to the rev limit exceeded 70 RWHP. Typically the results are around 75 RWHP. Yet just a day prior (Posted by Dynarider on Saturday, May 10, 2003 - 01:09 pm)... The fetal pig equals or exceeds that performance at a lower price, but to you, it is shit and the Latus is wonderful. Whatever. | ||
| Daves |
Blake, I went thru & read my posts & nowhere did I state any hp numbers for the latus..have not seen a dyno chart so i cant comment on that pipe. All I have been discussing regarding that muffler is looks..cost..& sound level. Features: Gain up to 7 HP at 3000 rpm, 5 HP at peak rpm This was a different Dyna that posted this? I have seen dyno charts on the Latus, 76.3 HP that is with a Race ECM and filter on a brand new XB9S, course our dyno is broken, it must be cause we never get the "big" numbers that some do. I have also ridden the bike with the Latus, both stock cc and 1050 cc. I have also ridden several with the race kit muffler and the Wileyco. Dyna, Have you even heard a Latus,or Wileyco or Force pipe on an XB? You have stated before on other boards that they must not be selling because you don't see many around, if this is true then how have you become such an expert on them? I consider you a friend but you are starting to get on my nerves with all your negative posts. It should be no surprise that for 600.00 you get X amount of HP and for 1200.00 or so you would get more? And for 4000.00 you would get more. It doesn't mean that one system is "shit". I think your biggest problem with the race kit is that it is sold by Buell. The brand you love to hate. Go out for a ride Dyna, it will do you good! Ride to the edge! Dave | ||
| Dynarider |
Dave I have heard both the latus & the Force...the Latus was in person, the force was a sound clip. Also I NEVER stated the latus only made 5hp. I dont know where the hell you guys come up with that. The 5hp on the top end & 7hp at 3000rpm is directly off the Latus website. Isnt 7 higher than 5??? Who the hell ever claimed the HP gains had to be right at the top end of the rev limit? Wasnt me. And Dave, as far as negative, the only thing I have said is I dont care for the Buell race can..aka "the fetal pig" & I dont feel its a good value for the money. Havent bitched about the Force or the Latus or the Wileyco. Havent even seen a wileyco...do they actually still sell em? Blake claims 75 hp on a completely stock bike yet you guys take one add the race ecm, fliter & latus pipe & get 76hp. If the race kit adds 5-6 hp that meeans the bike was putting out what stock 69-70hp? Not knocking it, just pointing out that I have seen the charts..even Aaron had a few showing the bikes putting down pretty dismal numbers compared to any of the tube framers. | ||
| Aaron |
I've dyno'ed several Stock XB9's ... the range has been roughly 73 to 77 peak horsepower. | ||
| Dynarider |
And the range for the tube framers was? | ||
| Daves |
I've sold 5 Wileyco pipes so far. But you wouldn't like them because they put out 4 less HP on the same bike, the same day and are 420.00 list price which after discount is 378.00. They are a bunch lighter and sound and look good. Our dyno put the power gains between the Buell can and the Latus almost exactly the same, yet the Buell can is 36.00 less money. Now if it's just the looks you don't care for then I understand but still doesn't make it "shit" or a poor value for the dollar. As far as power compared to the Tube frame bikes, the XBs Doug and I are riding are still less HP and TQ than the X1 I rode the last 2 years but, I'm 3.25 seconds faster per lap on it. Could it have something to do with better handling and being lighter? I haven't even learned to ride the thing yet, only 320 miles on it(I took it to the track with 4 miles on it) and yet I'm already considerably faster? Just wait til I get it dialed in and get used to it. Going to put my X1 lap times to shame! Last year, Craig on his X1 and I were pretty close, last track day with me on the XB, he couldn't catch me anywhere on the track. I don't think I somehow got any faster over the winter by not riding, must be the bike. I LOVE the Firebolt!  Ride to the edge! Dave | ||
| Ar15ls1 |
Kudos, I love my Firebolt too!!! | ||
| Usapitbullz |
You guys are lucky!!! I have been waiting for my force pipe to arrive for over a month. Has anyone actually taken delivery of the whole Nallin Signature Series Exahust System for the XB9R/S? I have parts, but no pipes! I feel so deprived.   | ||
| Blake |
Dave, Did you ask if they shortened the track. ![:]](http://www.badweatherbikers.com/buell/clipart/proud.gif) Dyna, Get real troll boy. You started this whole trollfest by saying that "The Buell race muffler is a joke, its barely louder than the stock unit..most likely exactly the same thing only with 2 outlets. Have seen a few dynos where folks were only getting 5-6 hp for the full Buell race kit. Thats pitiful for that amount of $$$." What did the tube framers make on the dyno? Prior to Nallinization my very well tuned stock '97 M2 with carb jetting race intake, Borla slip-on and S1W header made a whopping 74 RWHP and weighed a good 40 LBs more than an XB9. My stock '00 M2 made a tad over 80 RWHP. A stock DDFI Buell might make 85 RWHP in finely tuned stock form, if you were lucky. Add the full blown race kit for $1,200 and guess what, you got the same 85 RWHP, maybe 87 RWHP if you were really lucky. Was that a shit deal too? And again, the XB9's are damn near 50 pounds lighter than their predecessors. I recall once we were debating the quater mile dragstrip times of the XB9's versus the tube framers. I found the times for a DDFI S3 and an XB9R, both tested by Motorcyclist and both corrected to standard conditions with the XB9R being two tenths quicker than the S3. You guffawed the fact that I compared the XB9R to an S3 instead of an X1. Maybe you don't understand that the DDFI S3's and X1's share the exact same engine and are virtually the same weight, and that the S3 has superior aerodynamics? The XB9's are a big step up performance wise for Buell. They are the ONLY Buell so far to gain significantly in peak HP with application of just a race kit. Most importantly they are a big step up in quality and reliability. Troll on. Blake PS: I grilled up some delectable sirloin last night. Do trolls like 1-1/2" thick slabs of sirloin marinated and cooked over mesquite? |
