| Author | Message | ||
     Billybob |
please expain rake and trail and how it effects handling my cityx has less rake and trail than the 1200long a guy that races ducs told me the cityx handling was to fast for a new rider I just got this bike and also have a 98 m2 he said I should have got a 1200long thanks | ||
| Pwnzor |
Poppycock! CityX is a great bike for a new rider, the handling is definitely fast, but so what? Rake-- The angle in degrees of the steering neck from the vertical. Trail: Distance defined by vertical line from axle to ground and intersect of centerline of steering neck and ground. Have fun with your new bike, it's a fine machine. If it feels right to you, then it is. | ||
| Anonymous |
Rake and trail on Buells break the traditional rules. Your duc racing guy should learn more about Buells before giving advice about them. The handling is light, but the bike is very stable and predictable. When the XB series was first released with the 9R (same rake and trail as your bike), the journalists all came to the press launches saying the same thing, that after looking at the numbers they were sure the bike would be too quick handling and not stable. To a man (or woman) they all came off their tests rides stunned at how stable and easy handling the bike was. We were deluged with questions as to "How were you able to do that?" We did our homework and figured out what was really needed for stable handling when we did the XB design, and it's not all about rake and trail. That's the old school way, and is related to other things about chassis design. It is true that if your duc friend modified his duc chassis to the same rake and trail numbers it would be an evil handling bike. I'd tell you the secrets, but of course, then I'd have ta kill ya.... | ||
| Djkaplan |
"That's the old school way, and is related to other things about chassis design." Oooh, you hooked me with that one. I'm going hypothesize that you're talking about the bike's center of gravity. The farther forward it is, the more stability you get with comparable rake and trail figures (up to a point I'm sure). I'm sure the height of the CG affects stability as well. Is this right? Tell us! Testify! | ||
| Glitch |
It has a lot to do with that, and the fact that the bike is so short. | ||
| Djkaplan |
Not sure why a short wheelbase would make the bike more stable with radical rake and trail figures. Seems like a longer wheelbase would give you more stability with comparable rake and trail... according to conventional wisdom. But if you put that big heavy lump of an engine farther forward, you can get away with it. I'm sure this is how Buell can produce a bike that has the same wheelbase and geometry as a 250GP racer. I must have read this somewhere... I'm not clever enough to come up with this stuff on my own. | ||
| Staindus |
Is there anything to the gyro effect the engine produces as well? Does that help stability? | ||
| Anonymous |
When you get down to the engineering end of it, motorcycle handling is comprised of a bunch of simultaneous dynamic equations. Some of them people have known about for years and are considered the full set. But there are more. The XB took a really serious effort of re-thinking the whole motorcycle and solving a number of critical equations that had not been considered before. It was a real labor of love by a small group of intensely dedicated folks who wanted to see if they could move the bar in an industry dominated by giants. No matter what the future brings, the work of the XB really already was inspirational, if to no one else but those of us involved. We know what we did. | ||
| M1combat |
And we appreciate it Anony  . I spent a day at a racetrack a couple months back on a 12R. Firebird "West" in case you're interested/ There was one straight about 4-500' long. The 1000's would steal my lunch and run away and hide on that straight. They couldn't hide for long though. 2/3 of a lap later I'd be back around. I'd dice with each one for about three or four laps and then move on to the next one  . The 600's weren't an issue. That said... I was in the intermediate group so I don't know if I could have kept up with the serious racers. I doubt it, but it would have been my fault, not the XB's. Again... Thanks. I've been a self taught student of suspension design theory (mostly with cars) for a number of years and the first time I took a look at the XB (and gave a few moments thought about what might make it stable) I was hooked and knew it would be a well handling bike before I took delivery. I knew that HD engine was good for something . It's cool to see everyone up to about 100' in front of you on a racetrack checking their six for a thundering Buell too . Good job. I'll most likely be picking up an '08 BTW . Try not to price them outta my range eh? | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
Billybob, Your friend was right. BMC doesn't know that it's doing. You are going to die. Thank you. | ||
| Aj06bolt12r |
my xb is my first bike other than the fatboy that I traded for it. never had an issue with the handling being to "fast" Ive only been riding a few months, 2000 miles, and I have no trouble keepn up with my my more experienced friends on thier rice rockets. I actually have had to start following them farter behind so I dont have to grab the brakes mid corner to keep from running up on them. Now keep in mind we are not racing or anything but the buell is just very confidace inspiring in the corners. You will be fine, dont let the rake n trail numbers scare ya and watch the speedo in the twisties, your will be goin faster than you think in no time  | ||
| Tleighbell |
Also, if you are concerned, you can make a big difference by increasing rear pre-load and/or decreasing front. But on my XBS I have actually gone the other way with no stability issues (other than on mid-corner bumps). Anon, I for one really appreciate the work and inspiration that make this bike what it is. I just love it. I have never had a bike that was such a pleasure to ride. It is a work of art. | ||
| Mesafirebolt |
I came off of a Honda GT650, the handleing was advertised as quick. It was very quick and stable at all speeds. When My wife and I climbed on our 05 12R, I IMMIDIATELY noticed it was QUICKER and LIGHTER! but not in a bad way. As I got used to it I've only gotten better with it. |
