| Author | Message | ||
     Houriganj |
I know this probably does not belong here and i'm sorry but how much different is the buell engine and the sportster engine? rpm's? speed? I used to have an old shovelhead big twin and now bought a 2007 xb12r and love it but dont know anything about the motor as to its power and limitations. any help here please, and again i'm sorry about the topic. | ||
| Pwnzor |
Night and day. Your XB12R redlines at around 7000 and makes about 103hp at the crank. Throw in a race kit and it will make about 103hp at the wheel. Your top speed is approximately 140mph. (Message edited by pwnzor on December 15, 2006) | ||
| Steve_mackay |
Race kit, 103HP at the wheel? That would be one optimistic dyno. Now, a micron pipe, or drummer SS and a directlinked ECM, you'll have 100+ HP at the wheel. | ||
| Metalstorm |
Didn't the race pipe on a 12 make the highest hp output in the "Exhaust Shoot out"? 102 hp if i recall correctly. The curves wern't as nice as the Micron or Drummer though. | ||
| Tunes |
The Sportster engine is mildly tuned amd produces about 58hp. You can lug the motor and putt around all day... the bike loves it. The Buell is tuned for performance and produces 103hp with the Race Kit. Ya gotta keep the revs up a bit more but the bike flys and handles corners like they're straights... all of this in the simplest of terms. | ||
| Pwnzor |
Race kit, 103HP at the wheel? That would be one optimistic dyno. Try reading the Exhaust Shootout at American Sport Bike . It's right there on the front page of the site, and the data is assembled by Al Lighton, therefore it is 100% reliable. Here's the important part, in case you don't want to spend the time: No optimism required, just hard facts.  (Message edited by pwnzor on December 16, 2006) | ||
| Metalstorm |
The only thing I can think of that's the same between the shovelhead & XB engine is that they're both 45 degrees and both have push rods. After that, lets just say it's been refined a bit since the shovel days. Smoother, lighter, quicker, much, much, much more reliable. | ||
| Pwnzor |
Smoother, lighter, quicker, much, much, much more reliable. Yeah 30,000 miles without leaking a single drop of oil... I'd say so.  | ||
| Houriganj |
thanks alot guys with the info. i love the xb12r its alot of fun but found out it wont keep up with a rice rocket like the ninja but has one hell of a take off, blew the jap crap away on take off. a friend of mine has a 883 sporty and says hell smoke my bike that is why i asked. | ||
| Metalstorm |
An 883 won't stand a chance. Not in the straights & not in the twisties unless the Sporty guy is really good & the XB guy is really bad I had an 883 once. I converted it to a 1200 & installed bigger cams & higher rev limiter etc.. After all the mods my converted 12 became an arm wrenching torque monster but it didn't hold a candle to my 12S. The XB doesn't try to rip my arms off anywhere near as much as my Sporty did but the XB is wayyy quicker. The torque between a Sporty & XB are comparable but the XB has more horse power & weighs over 100 pounds less. This equals quicker acceleration & more top speed. On edit: On second thought, I think the higher rev limit of the XB equals more top speed. The lighter weight definitely makes it accelerate quicker. (Message edited by Metalstorm on December 16, 2006) | ||
| Pwnzor |
a friend of mine has a 883 sporty and says hell smoke my bike Your friend is suffering from delusions and/or hallucinations. | ||
| Steve_mackay |
I've never read the report before now, but it was a good idea, and confirmed my statement. It's really apparent when reading the XB12 stock HP #s. 103 HP at the crank, and 101HP at the wheel? I think the driveline looses more than 2HP Please read page 18 of the PDF. "The Absolute power output and torque values obtained were therefore on the high side(about 5%)of the actual bike outputs" Also on page 96, Revision B quantified the "happy dyno factor" . | ||
| Diablobrian |
one of the things to remember on the shootout is that the race pipe map and the micron map had more development time invested in them. Those happened to be the pipes that Terry and Al had on the bikes when they were helping the manufacturer work the bugs out of direct link, not any sort of attempt to skew the results. The maps for all of the pipes is continually evolving. Also remember that while the runs were done on the same dyno the atmospheric conditions (temp, barometric pressure, humidity etc) varied over the days of the test. Another important factor is the fact the software on the dyno was not calibrated for the weight and wear/grip of the drum on that dyno so the readings are a little optimistic. Bottom line, the greatest value of a dyno sheet is not the peak numbers, but in the shape of the curves. Pick a pipe that maximizes power in the range that you use most often. If you cruise the boulevards, or commute in bumper to bumper traffic most of the time a "top-end" pipe doesn't make much sense. And if you are racing a pipe that is biased toward 3-4k rpms would be a bad choice. Just be honest with yourself about what your goal is with the bike and build with that standard firmly in mind. a top-end pipe and porting job will not work well with a bottom end pipe and stock air box. To get the most out of it the components need to work towards a common goal. Whatever that goal may be. | ||
| Metalstorm |
A 1200 Sporty might keep up with a stock XB9 on the straights & possibly in the twisties as long as it doesn't get too twisty. Sportys have only so much lean angle. I can tell you from experience, hitting a sharp right turn & leaning a Sporty so far that you slide around the corner on your pipes with the rear wheel off the ground is only fun until the rear tire touches down again. Then OUCH! (Message edited by Metalstorm on December 16, 2006) | ||
| Metalstorm |
For you number crunchers out there: I'll be the first to admit that I don't know squat about engines but wouldn't these pipes increase hp at the crank as well? I just don't see how the rear wheel hp can go up with out the crank hp going up as well. I don't know.. I'm just guessing & learning as I go. I agree completely with Brian. The curves are more important than the numbers them selves. After seeing the shootout results I was happy to see the race pipe (which I have) get such a high number. But then I looked at the rest of the pipes & after observing all the curves I ended up wishing that I had gotten the Drummer. It doesn't have the highest anything but the torque curve was beautiful & right where I want it. | ||
| Diablobrian |
expect a 10-15% loss between the crank and the rear wheel and you won't be far off. | ||
| Metalstorm |
Alrighty, then lets say you put a stock Buell on a Dyno & it reads 92 hp. Then you put a pipe on it & it reads 97 hp. That's a 5 hp increase at the wheel so does that mean it increased between 5.5 (10%) & 5.75 (15%) at the crank? | ||
| Metalstorm |
This board makes me think too much. I'm afraid I'm gonna end up injuring my last remaining brain cell  | ||
| Reepicheep |
I have jokingly referred to my XB as the "sportser screaming eagle stage 4 kit with the handling package option" | ||
| Daves |
We did a before and after dyno on my XB12 demo Race kit alone 85 hp Race kit and DL tuning we got it to 96 | ||
| Buell920 |
Daves what you got is good info. there is a 15% loss from the motor to the wheel. thats a general rule of thumb. trans and suspension eat up so much power.  }I....JUST.....NEED...TO....FIGURE....OUT...HOW... TO....GET...RIDE...OF...THEM!!!! | ||
| Imonabuss |
Metalstorm, It's OK, your brain isn't exploding, when the power increases at the rear wheel, you do have more at the crank. UNLESS: you reduced drag in the transmission, primary drive or final drive to get the new reading. That's the main reason why you see different power numbers in different gears on the same bike for example. New brain stretch: The loss is not really a fixed percentage of crank power. Note that if you increase power at the crank without increasing RPM or anything else that would change the effects of the parasitic driveline drag, you will get all of the power gain at the rear wheel. However if you increase rpm to get that power, the parasitic losses go up a little. Basically what that means is a small output engine (think Blast) with a similar driveline to a more powerful engine (think '03 XB9) will lose a much larger percentage of it's power between crank and rear wheel than will the more powerful one. | ||
| Ducxl |
'ya know,i love reading the threads recently about the new Ducati 1098,amongst others regarding someone buying a real Superbike.It seems everyone here dismisses them as overpowered bikes with no soul. And here we are debating about how to extract every last pony possible,and how these Buell motors compare to those silly little Sportsters.Really makes me wonder if we have inferiority complexes related to motorcycles ENGINEERED for greater power than our lawnmower engines...HHmmmmm. | ||
| Diablobrian |
Thanks Imonabuss nicely stated. Metalstorm: Yes, if you put on a pipe and see a 5hp increase at the rear wheel the motor is making more ho at the crank, that is where the power originates. Buell920: to reduce loss through the primary and transmission you just need to reduce inertia, mass, and friction losses. So... with frictionless bearings, and zero mass components in an anti-gravity field you can get rid of the losses.  (Message edited by diablobrian on December 16, 2006) | ||
| Buell920 |
Ducxl I cant speak for all but, my goal is to get more with less. Buell tries this also. MORE power LESS parts. the new Duc is nice in style,power,ego and so forth but still not as simple as a Buell  | ||
| Metalstorm |
Thanks guys My last brain cell is safe now. Until the next topic anyway  | ||
| Lovematt |
If an 883 is said to blow away your bike...have them prove it on their terms. I did with a guy weighing 100 pounds less than me on an 883 Sportster and me on a 9R. We did take offs, turning, straights, etc...all I can say is an 883 is not faster than a 984. | ||
| Pwnzor |
My buddy in Long Beach has a 1200 Sporty with a lot of mods and a nitrous system. He can't even stay next to me in the intersection, never mind the finish line. |
