| Author | Message | ||
     Buelltroll |
What happens when your stator dies? Bikes dead.... Think Mobil1 chewed up mine. | ||
| Kdan |
You get that smelly smell that smells. Check your regulator & battery when you replace the stator too. | ||
| Buelltroll |
I had that for a week or two(thats what made me think dead stator) and then I replaced the mobil1 gear oil with royal purple synthetic oil and the smell went away,Bike ran strong for a week or so then yesterday I smelled it again after a pretty hard riding session,Today when I went to start it up there was just one CLICK like dead starter but the gauges reset and it wouldn't fire after that. It did the CLIKCLIKCLIK of death a few times then just died now it clicks once and nothing. Fuel pump whine is weak too. Shouldn't be battery or starter or voltage regulator they've ALL been replaced within the last year. | ||
| Kdan |
When my stator went, it took the regulator & battery with it. Next time replace the stator when you first start to smell that smelly smell that smells. | ||
| Brineusaf |
indeed the stator usually take the regulator and battery with it. they kicked the bucked on my bike with around 2-3k miles on it a 2006 | ||
| Reepicheep |
I doubt the Mobil 1 caused it. People have been running it far longer then you did with no problems. There may or may not be a long term problem, but no way did it "dissolve" something over a week. Disconnect the wire between the Stator and the voltage regulator and check the resistance between each two pins (should be three on an XB) and each pin and ground. The manual shows this process. Pin to pin should be low (6 ohms maybe?) and each pin to ground should be infinity. I don't know why these failures cascade. Mine seemed to do the same thing. I thought it was a fluke. I'll have to chew on it for a while. Hmmm... shunt regulator fails, driving voltages very high within the stator, causing arcing or more rapid insulation failure? So long as the regulator is regulating, the stator will be dissipating a lot of power, but won't see more then 13.8 volts. If the regulator fails, then suddenly there are 60 volt peaks. That does not seem like enough to be an issue... Maybe inductive leap is causing failures of some sort. That could introduce some very high transients into the stator. But I digress. Disconnect the stator from the voltage regulator and measure the stator side for resistance with a $8 harbor freight digital multi meter set to "ohms". | ||
| Firewhirl |
A week or two before my stator blew my bike had symtoms of a bad battery. I did not do any testing the first time my batt went dead and I charged it and rode the bike. Went dead again. I replaced the battery first because it was over three years old and it was the cheapest and easiest to do.. About two days later it went dead again and left me stranded. I tested the stator and one of the phases was bad. I purchased a new stator and volt regulator from Dave. Before ordering from Dave I did some checking with local dealers on parts and labor. Long story short started to get jerked around as usual. So I did the job myself. It's actually easier to do than you would think. My stator phase one wire was broken. Looks like the small metal clip that holds the wires against the block rub itself thru the wire. I also run Mobil 1 Synth. I'm starting to think that the Mobil 1 tends to pick up the smell of an bad stator alot more than dino oil. (Message edited by firewhirl on December 03, 2006) | ||
| Buelltroll |
I just got off the phone with Auburn HD they are sending a truck today to pick it up. They said it should all be covered under warranty except for mabey the battery and the dude is gonna TRY to get that too. I haven't actually DONE the stator test but I'm pretty sure thats what it is what with the smell and everything else in the charging system being replaced fairly recently. | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
Are you sure the smell wasn't from the Burrito Platter?  How long were you using the Mobil 1 gear oil? | ||
| Buelltroll |
I used gear oil since the first oil change 13,000 miles ago.(usually GOOD gear oil like Amsoil or Royal purple) but I had been using the Mobil1 for about 6 weeks. | ||
| Djkaplan |
I used Mobil 1, but I never got the bad smell when my stator went bad. The oil didn't smell bad when I drained it, either. | ||
| Buelltroll |
I think it's the Mobil1 GEAR oil not the regular oil. | ||
| Old_man |
It's the GEAR LUBE not the oil that causes problems. It is said that it contains sulphur that creates acid. | ||
| Djkaplan |
I'm talking about the Mobil 1 gear lube, the 70w90 stuff. | ||
| Buelltroll |
 Gues it IS called gear LUBE,But this is what I meant and was using(Mine was 75/90). (Message edited by buelltroll on December 03, 2006) | ||
| Reepicheep |
I ran that stuff for 25k miles or something in my M2 before the Stator went. Plenty of stators running nothing but "factory approved fluids" died sooner then that. Lots of other tuber owners ran nothing but mobil 1 gear oil. The reason was that it made a HUGE difference in shifting. Now, on my XB, the difference between that and Formula + (now that Harley finally has a synthetic gear oil available) is not noticeable. So I now run the formula plus. The stator is not a copper coil in an oil bath, it is a long insulated wire (enamel or epoxy or something) running in an oil bath. There is NO exposed copper anywhere on the thing. Could Mobil 1 have been contributing to early failure of stators due to breakdown of the copper stator windings? No. Could Mobil 1 have been contributing to early failure of stators due to breakdown of insulation or adhesives or insulation on the wires? Maybe, but probably not. There has not been any kind of obvious difference between that and the factory oils. Could Mobil 1 have somehow destroyed your stator in less then 5000 miles? No. Stators fail, its pretty common on Buell and Harley sportster engines. Heck, its fairly common on ALL motorcycle engines. | ||
| Buelltroll |
Ya EVERYONE else is wrong and you are right... Seems to be pretty common in most of your posts... | ||
| Reepicheep |
Fine Donnie, the Mobil 1 killed your stator in 4000 miles. I guess it killed your battery and voltage regulator also. Nasty stuff, that. | ||
| Bigdaddy |
Stators die, all the time, regardless of what lubricant you're using. There's a growing body of evidence that M1 gear lube may shorten the life of some stators. That being said I've got at least one stator with 40K miles of nothing but M1 gear lube. If you're going to put miles on a Buell you'll end up replacing the stator. YMMV, but if you ride you'll eventually toast the fricking thing. | ||
| Buelltroll |
I'll find out today what happened and why. | ||
| Reepicheep |
I apologize if I am coming off as a jerk, I do have a hard time keeping my mouth shut on this stuff. I have a 4 year electrical engineering degree... but I don't get to use it (more jobs in software) so now it's just a hobby. My "day job" means that (on average) if I get a diagnosis wrong, it costs a lot of people time and the company a lot of money. It's trained me to be a little over the top in terms of how I decide something is broken and how I go about fixing it. It drives my Wife nuts also  That Buell / Harley charging system looks *so* simple... but like you I experienced what I *think* was a cascading failure of Stator, Voltage Regulator, and Battery (on my M2). Others had the same experience. It's got me genuinely curious. The only common thread I can think of is that the Voltage Regulator fails first. This puts spikes into the charging system that must be absorbed by the battery, which then causes it to be damaged. So far so good. But then why does the Stator care? It's a shunt type regulator, so when it operates normally and your battery is fully charged is when the stator should take the most abuse (the regulator just shorts out the stator leads when it decides it has "enough"). So a blown regulator should either appear to the stator as either a normal "fully charged battery" worst case scenario, or as a "battery is thirsty so it will take the power instead of making you eat it" better scenario. So why are is the stator part of the cascading failure? Maybe a failing voltage regulator is causing higher voltages across the stator... breaking down insulation. But if you completely disconnect the VR, I think you peak out at 60 odd some volts from the Stator. More then 13.8V to be sure, but no where near where things should start arcing or insulation should start failing, I don't think. I don't get it. I'll have to dig up more info on shunt regulators. Get a picture of your old stator... there are three common failure modes. 1) Metal clip holding down the stator wire in the primary has sharp metal edge and cuts wire, shorting things out. 2) Connector between Stator and Voltage Regulator fails. 3) Some sort of short between stator windings, meaning you see this big nasty burnt looking bubble of goo where it was slowly baking itself. | ||
| Djkaplan |
"2) Connector between Stator and Voltage Regulator fails." That was my failure mode at 30,000 miles. Used Mobil 1 75w90 for about 25,000 of those miles. I never noticed any improvement in shifting using Mobil, however, so stopped using it after I replaced the stator. | ||
| Glitch |
20,000 + or - miles for my stators mobil1 75w90 since the bike was new stator was all that failed i still am using the original voltage regulator 48,000 miles now these are only data points i know not why it died i only know it died also found out just how simple it is to replace i'm using formula plus now, just in case i'll let y'all know if i need another stator at 60,000 | ||
| Whodom |
The stator is not a copper coil in an oil bath, it is a long insulated wire (enamel or epoxy or something) running in an oil bath. There is NO exposed copper anywhere on the thing. Reepi, the stator on my S3 failed earlier this summer. I was using Mobil 1 gear oil. What I found was that the blob of potting material (epoxy?) that covers the solder joints between the ends of the stator windings and the wires that lead out of the primary cover to the voltage regulator was completely deteriorated. As I was replacing the stator, the remaining potting material crumbled apart just from my handling the stator and wires, and one of the solder joints broke immediately. I don't know if anyone else has observed this or not. I changed to Formula+ after replacing the stator and shifting is at least as good as it was with the Mobil 1 gear oil. I think I caught my stator almost immediately after it started failing so hopefully I fixed it before I got a "cascade" failure. I noticed my bike was slow to crank the day after coming home off of a 250 mile ride and knew something had to be wrong. I checked and was getting no voltage from the stator and parked the bike until I could fix it. Thus far (~2500 miles later), the old voltage regulator and battery are still fine (knock on wood). | ||
| Djkaplan |
I reused my voltage regulator and battery, too. No probs. | ||
| Reepicheep |
Interesting Whodon... that is where mine failed as well. | ||
| T9r |
 I just thought this was funny... I need to display it in my house... sorry honey, I mean the garage. | ||
| Djkaplan |
I just printed that out and I'm going to hang it up in my office. | ||
| T9r |
Here is another one for you, not as fancy:  | ||
| Sloppy |
Oh, how I love this thread topic, there's PLENTY of discussion on this, but here it goes. FACT: There is exposed copper wiring at the stator connection between the stator and the VR. There is an insulated cover, but that's it, it's just a cover. Peep under the cover and you'll see the wires. Go to the local HD shop and look at the connection yourself (maybe it's been updated, but 3 years ago it wasn't). Next time you've torn down the engine far enough, peep down your 2 wire connection and you'll see oil coated wires... FACT: Many people have had multiple failures of at this exact junction when using GL-5 gear oils. When GL-5's were replaced with factory recommended oil, there have been no repeat failures. FACT: Some people have reported zero failures when using GL-5 gear oil. FACT: GL-5 Gear Oil is corrosive to copper. The more frequently you replace the GL-5 gear oil, the greater the corrosion rate will be. Yes, it's controversial, but this isn't: FACT: There is NO MANUFACTURER THAT RECOMMENDS GL-5 OIL IN YOUR BUELL TRANNY. None, Nada, Zip. Don't you think that if GL-5 oil was okay for use in the tranny, that RP, RedLine, Amsoil, Benke, (ANYONE), ... would say so??? So, use GL-5 at your own risk... I'll trust the experts on this one. Anyways, before you commit your stator to the grave, do all the continuity checks at VR -- it's a simple check to see if the stator is dead or not. By the way, that awful oil smell of gear oil is the smell of the extreme pressure (EP) additives of sulphur compounds, not the smell of electrical death (that's a different smell.) I don't know of anyone that can tell if their stator has failed by the smell of the oil... (Message edited by sloppy on December 04, 2006) |
