| Author | Message | ||
     Dooley |
Hey guys, Don't know if this has been covered before but, I have a 03 9R and my oil pump drive gear was shot after 27K. I was chasing down an oil leak and thought I needed to replace the cam cover gasket. while I had it off I decided that i might as well replace my drive gear with the high performance one. When I took my old gear off it was badly worn, the teeth were worn considerably. Also the stock gear is a different material than the hi perf one. Looks as though the hi perf one is denser and heavier. At first when Buell came out with the hi performance drive gear I thought it was for higher pump pressure, but now by comparing the two it looks like they both have the same amount of teeth, so Buell probably knew this problem existed so they upgraded the part. In the past I've been getting some metal shavings on my drainplug, now I know why. I've searched the KV but only found this problems on tubers, but its an issue on XBs too. (Message edited by dooley on November 25, 2006) | ||
| Dooley |
heres a pic of the gears side by side didn't come out great haven't figured out how to focus my new digital cam.:  | ||
| Pwnzor |
when you're that close, use the macro button, it probably has a little flower on it. | ||
| Reepicheep |
Look for a macro mode, perhaps a little flower or something. Or just shoot from further away... I would like to see the picture of the old gear. I have one from a tuber sitting on my desk at work, it was *badly* worn at 18k miles or so. The XB's seem to still do this, though they seem to have much less of a problem. I'll probably be dropping my oil pump this winter on the XB for a quick inspection to see if I have another gear eating Buell this time around... | ||
| Slaughter |
Generally speaking, the bronze gear may not last quite as long but it's not prone to catastrophic failure. (and I'm going to be changing mine too) Cheap insurance - and easy to check once in a while for wear. | ||
| Pwnzor |
I haven't really noticed much in the way of metal shavings on my primary case drain plug... is that what I should be looking for? | ||
| Daves |
It will be in the engine oil. | ||
| Whodom |
Pwnzor, This wouldn't show up on the primary. The oil pump drive gear is on the other end of the crankshaft. The only way to check it is to drop the oil pump: remove two allen screws and detach one oil line & lower the pump. Shine a light up in the hole or use a digital camera to take a photo. Rotate the engine a few degrees and repeat several times. The gears generally tend to wear more on one side than the other. Check the KV for several threads on the subject including numerous photos. 06's & 07's come with the high performance bronze gear from the factory so hopefully none of them will have the problem. | ||
| Pwnzor |
d'oh! of course it will! Well I really don't see metal shavings on either drain plug... I mean, there are tiny little bits sometimes but it doesn't seem bad at all to me. I suppose one of these days I'll replace that gear just to be safe though. | ||
| Diablobrian |
Bronze won't stick to the drain plug either. Oil analysis will show if there is excessive bronze in your oil, but few people do analysis on their motor oil. It is far easier to do the inspection Whodom detailed. | ||
| Pwnzor |
wouldn't it be just as easy to merely replace the thing as long as I have the pump out anyway? | ||
| Hkwan |
How long approx. does it take the replace the gear? I have the manual, but would like to know how long the task has taken for those of you who have done it. | ||
| Whodom |
wouldn't it be just as easy to merely replace the thing as long as I have the pump out anyway? Not by a long shot. The gear on the pump isn't the one that wears, the one that's on the crankshaft is the one that wears. You have to remove remove the oil pump, remove at least one rockerbox cover, turn the engine to close the valves on the other rocker box cover, and remove the right side engine cover (hopefully leaving all the cams in position). Lock the crankshaft (with a nifty little tool Al Lighton sells), loosen the crankshaft nut, off with the old gear, on with the new gear. Reassemble with new gaskets. It's a several hour job at best. My cams fell out when I pulled the right side cover, so I had to pull the front rocker box to completely relieve the pressure on the lifters so the cams would go back in, and installing the cams properly takes quite a bit of referring to the manual and repeated head scratching. That probably added at least another hour to the job for me. I'd say count on 3 or 4 hours if you're reasonably experienced and you have all the tools and gaskets you need on hand. It's worth doing the inspection because some of these engines don't get any abnormal wear on the gear, in which case it should last 100k miles or more. I checked the one on my S3 at 15,000 miles and it was already showing excess wear on one side, so I replaced it with the upgraded gear. | ||
| Whodom |
Bronze won't stick to the drain plug either. The original gears for 05 and earlier engines appear to be steel so hopefully the shavings would stick to the drain plug. The upgraded 06 and later gear is bronze. | ||
| Reepicheep |
I don't know that you would see shavings of any kind, the wear is very gradual. | ||
| Pwnzor |
I do see a tiny amount of shavings on the plug at every oil change. I wonder... | ||
| Brineusaf |
Matt, Want to see? I'll shoot you some pics tonight of what mine looks like - since I have the engine out and apart.  Look into where the cams would be... it's the only "gold" gear in there. I will take a more detailed pic for you tonight... If you don't like the size... STFU | ||
| Brineusaf |
If you don't want to invest the time to re-install the cams I would SUGGEST you DO NOT remove the cover, as they have a very good chance of being pulled out. To minimize down time I would order everything required in advance. | ||
| Reepicheep |
Cool shot Kyle. I got to visit a friend near an armor / artillery base in Germany, and spend a week there at his house. As soon as I saw that picture above, I thought "somehow I know that is a German garage somewhere"... sure enough, I checked the profile, and there you are. It brings back some great memories. A beautiful area to live and ride. If you see an American ExPat riding around on a Cagiva Raptor with a bunch of *really* loud Harleys, tell Shu I said "Hi"  . I have no idea how they get away with the straight pipes around the TUV, but they do. | ||
| M1combat |
You have to pull the cam cover if you want to replace the drive gear though brine... I checked mine last oil change ('04 XB12R - 32K miles) and it needs to be replaced. Each tooth is about 1/2-2/3 worn through... Other than the first 300 miles it's never had anything but M1 or Amsoil 20/50 in it... | ||
| Brineusaf |
Donald - I know that... I was just saying that while pulling the cover, the chances of losing a cam is great. Can't fix what ain't broke or if it ain't broke don't fix it. Bill - Indeed they do somehow manage to get around the TUV Restrictions, but you should see them scatter or "ease off" when Polizei drives by. Germany is truly a beautiful place, and an awesome experience. (Note the 220v plugs in the background). Edit- I have a pic that I took last night, but I forgot to upload onto here. I will post it once I get home. (Message edited by brineusaf on November 27, 2006) | ||
| M1combat |
I'll keep that in mind , I gotta do mine soon... | ||
| Brineusaf |
 There you go - XB12S 2006 (under 5K) (Message edited by brineusaf on November 27, 2006) | ||
| Spatten1 |
The cams are really easy to line up with the marks. The crank nut, however, is another HD special that requires you to own a special tool or invent a way to hold the crank still while reefing the red-locktited nut off. Why HD can't just use a locking washer like everyone else in the world is beyond me. | ||
| Spatten1 |
Don't you need to pull the push rods and lifters before removing the primary cover? What happens if you pull the cams out and there is still pressure on the open valves? | ||
| Reepicheep |
Wow! Thats one of the new gears already (2006). Wonder if they "fail" less catastrophically and just wear / bend to nothing, instead of chunking out like the original stock gears do. Hard to imagine that not being a catastrophic failure. I apologize for not remembering who worked this out (should be able to find it in the knowledge vault, "white" or something)... but they speculated that the reason for the wear is that the oil pump gear sat too low relative to that pinion gear, which sure seems to be the case in your shot above. He actually slapped the oil pump in a lathe and removed enough material to line them up better, and did some other stuff, and his "gear consumption problems" went away. Watch out for those green Audi's And drink a nice tall "Weis" for me! | ||
| Brineusaf |
I'll take another picture tomorrow, so everyone can get a feeling of how it "lines up". I will also post another picture which some might find informational. Indeed, the cams are very easy to line up. Removing the push rods and lifters isn't a neccesity to removing the cams. I haven't had a problem with mine to speak of. Stay tuned... | ||
| M1combat |
Reepi... How much did he take off? | ||
| M1combat |
Is there a way to put a spacer under the gear? | ||
| Brineusaf |
I will investigate tonight. Since this was mentioned I have decided I am going to take a wear pattern of it tonight. I will take some pictures of the wear pattern tonight for everyone, as well as some investigating of adding a shim, which I doubt will be possible since the gear is on the end of the shaft, but I will look into it. Stay tuned for more pictures tonight. |
