| Author | Message | ||
     Schmitty |
Is the catch can worth the effort, or the money(Drummer)? I plan to do a track school to get a race license, and possibly enter at least one race next season. Is this a worth while investment? Is there any performance advantage? Any input or experience is appreciated. Thanks, Schmitty | ||
| Johntman |
If you do decide to do it, be careful if you use a knife to cut the breather hose, as you may puncture a fuel line! | ||
| Diablobrian |
That's still a point of contention for many. I have one of the catch cans made by Mike Norris (now sourced through kdfab, and American Sport Bike) and I have become convinced, after seeing the oil and moisture that it catches, that it is a worth-while investment. Others see it as a waste of time and money. For racing you will need a catch can of some sort for the fuel, and crank case vents. There is even some evidence (from Al at American Sport Bike) of increases in HP with the installation of a catch can. This too has been disputed, but even if it is fractional increases on the track it's worthwhile. There are other, cheaper, catch cans on the market. However the ones you are referring to were designed for the XB and fit beautifully and unobtrusively on your bike. | ||
| Pwnzor |
You can make functioning setup for less than $20. Mine works great, cost near nothing, no extra widgets hanging off the bike anywhere. 99% concealed. You'll be surprised how much gunk you drain out of it. I'll post pics... again if you want. | ||
| Tx05xb12s |
I got the open airbox conversion kit, catch can, and K&N breather from Al. I also installed the race ECM at the same time. Though I can't isolate the performance gain from the catch can/breather alone, these items together did give me a detectable performance gain over what I was getting with just race muffler and K&N intake filter. The throttle response is crisper and I noticed a little more pep at higher RPMs. These mods also changed the sound of the bike quite a bit too. There's a lot more intake buzz now. With just the muffler and filter, it sounded Harleyesque. Now it sounds more like a race car. Would I do the PCV valve to catch can re-route again now that I know what it does? Well, if money was an issue I wouldn't because I spent several hundred bucks for the airbox kit, catch can and breather. However, now that I have the opportunity to see what comes out of the can (mostly water), I'm glad I'm not recirculating it back into my intake. Water vapor can't possibly be helping the HP #s any. So, I wouldn't call this an essential mod, but it does give you just a little more. I guess it really boils down to how bad you want to squeeze every last 1/4 HP out of your bike. | ||
| Sinatra |
pwnzor , please pm me the pics or the link to them..thanks...... | ||
| Ftd |
I MT mine every 3rd or 4th fill up. Do you want this stuff going back into your engine??  | ||
| M1combat |
I think it's worth it... Before I got a catch can my throttle plate would get black and greasy over the course of 5-7K miles. Now it stays pretty clean. I have to imagine that my intake valves appreciate it  . | ||
| Firebolteric_ma |
I have the home made version as I can't justify the cost of this mod. I do how ever think it is a good idea to make/buy one for your bike. The junk that one drains from them is nothing you want in your bike. | ||
| 99buellx1 |
The Norris (Drummer) can is awesome! Really, the quality of this piece must be seen to appreciate it fully. It fits like a glove, and is a breeze to install. It's very pretty, even though its also very unobtrusive and blends nicely into the bike. And as noted, it works nicely and is simple to empty.  | ||
| Swordsman |
I think the mod is a must (my bike no longer "hiccups", thank goodness!), but the catch cans are freakin' expensive. Check the Knowledge vault for some MUCH cheaper alternatives that, IMHO, look nicer. It's hard to justify $130 when you can build one for $15 (unless you've just got some cash burning a hole in your pocket!). ~SM | ||
| Gentleman_jon |
I got one. No surprise there. Steve Haynes talked me into it. Frankly, I just thought it looked cool, but when I emptied the thing the very first time, and a couple of ounces of water came out, I started convincing myself I was very clever indeed to fit it!  Try as I might, I just could not convince myself that I noticed any performance improvements, but I tell everyone who asks, that I got one or two horseponies out of it. Makes everyone feel better, including me. | ||
| Djkaplan |
I always say a catch-can lets another horse out of the corral, but I'm not sure if I can feel a difference, either. I does make me feel better, though. | ||
| Aeroe |
I personally don't have a catch can, but it would appear to me that the can doesn't necessarily make more power, it just improves the longevity of the engine. I've seen all that junk that gets caught inside the throttle body.  A catch can is on my to-do list. | ||
| Cruisin |
Here's the skinny on catch cans. If I had the time I'd rummage in my stack of Battle2Win magazines and find the article, but the summary is that there are many options for the breather tubes...I can't remember them all. Reg ran many runs on his lab rat bike and the final result was that routing the tubes anywhere OTHER than back into the intake usually saw about 1 or 2 extra horsepower. Is it worth it? That's your call. Does it help? Thanks to Reg, we know it does. | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
To me, the horsepower question is really a non issue. I am looking to add the catch can as a measure to keeping the engine clean. To me, the stock set-up is synonymous to drinking your own dip juice. It just can't be good for the engine to ingest all that crap. If I get another 1-2 HP gain, it's a bonus. | ||
| Sgthigg |
I second Ft_bstrb. I maybe didnt notice a hp gain so to say. But if your air/fuel mixture has 2%(pulling this number out of my a$$) of contanminents in it your bike will only run at 98% of it performance level. It has to help performance wise. Just make sure you dont forget to drain it..lol | ||
| Djkaplan |
The only time I ever fouled a plug was when my bike was totally stock, with the breather lines still feeding into the intake. I wonder if spooge contamination caused this? | ||
| Diablobrian |
I just threw the note about hp gain in there for those that are on the fence about it. The gains are so small as to be invisible from the saddle. There are a lot of low-buck options out there. no doubt about that. I ordered mine way back when this was a prototype. Mine doesn't even have the name milled in. I believe in the idea. The product, the Above pictured black billet catch can, is a high quality piece of work and as a machinist myself i can tell you it would be hard to have a similar part of equally high quality made to your spec. for less. I know Buell riders aren't into "Bling" as such. However we do like our magnesium, Titanium, Carbon fiber, and yes, our billet aluminum. The plastic hose catch can will work, but you will need to either hide it, or just not care, while the billet one looks nice and has a bit of flash in the silver finish, or is more discreet in the black anodized finish. It's your choice. I think your motor will thank you for installing a catch can, and if you are going to have one why not have it look like it is a factory piece? (assuming the EPA didn't mandate otherwise) | ||
| Al_lighton |
Blowby routed into the intake robs power. The stuff routed back into the intake is oxygen depleted, hot, oil contaminated air that displaces cool combustible mixture with hot incombustible mixture. The testing I did saw 2-4 ponies by getting that stuff out on my Uly (in conjunction with the open airbox kit), and the testing that Aaron did on Breathers for Battle2win (Volume 3, issue 3, year 2000) showed 2-4 ponies in the upper RPM ranges. I've heard that a healthy engine has 3-5% ring seal blowby, and on a 100HP engine, that would seem to correlate well with the gains seen by routing it out. I certainly wouldn't call the power gains insignificant. That, plus the general mess it makes in the airbox, makes it a no brainer for me. Al | ||
| Rum_runner |
 I know this has been talked about and shown many times put could someone give me step by step directions on how to build one for my S1 and pictures will help. | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
Al, I would like to buy one, but it appears that on your website, you can only get one with all the tubing and everything if you buy the open airbox kit. Is this required, in your opinion? I would like to use the 07 airbox with race filter and the catch can, but I don't really want to use the open airbox filter top (nor have to pay for what I'm not going to use). Thoughts? | ||
| Diablobrian |
American Sport Bike part number 9306 + a 5641 filter or a 5624 + A5623 will do the trick. Neither one has the open air box cover. | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
The 9306 by the website doesn't come with the tubing, the "T" fittings, or the base plate plugs. Neither does the 5641. The A5624 has some of the hardware but other hardware you don't need. I was thinking something like this:  If this is the best way to get these parts, I'll buy this kit. | ||
| Thin_air |
I got one from Al and I really like draining the spooge.... | ||
| Jackbequick |
And here is another approach, it worked for me: http://users.adelphia.net/~jackerbes/Buell/breathe r.html Jack | ||
| Al_lighton |
I get all the other components for the open airbox kit anyway, so I'll assemble a kit of the necessary other components for the catchcan and offer it separately. Jack, that linked article has some suggestions that I don't agree with. First and foremost, breather lines that leave the sides of an XL based engine should only go DOWN once they leave the breather ports. Once oil drops past the umbrella valves into the ports where the breather bolts go it, it can't get back into the engine, it is coming out of the breather line. The way it is routed in the pictures on that site pretty much guarantees that the oil traps and burps continuously. You really want that breather line to remain unobstructed at all times. If the engine has working umbrella valves, the breather filter is less a filter and more a diaper for the breather line. You don't really NEED a filter at all, as the flow is out, not in. But a K&N style breather filter on the end of the line keeps the breather line from dripping oil, regardless of whether there is a catch can in the line or not. A fuel filter is not a very good filter for that application, it clogs too easily. Al | ||
| Djkaplan |
"A fuel filter is not a very good filter for that application, it clogs too easily." I experimented with a using a big fuel filter as an engine breather and this was my observation as well. There are a number of ways to fabricate an efficient catch-can. There are years of great ideas in the the archives. I love the ceativity shown in the threads... look at all of them. http://www.badweatherbikers.com/buell/messages/384 2/189810.html?1116420688 | ||
| Jackbequick |
Al, I defer to your knowledge and experience. I ran that filter that way on my M2 for almost a year and never had any problem with the up and over routing. I was warned about it several times here but no problem ever surfaced. I removed those lines a couple of times. Once to replace the rocker box gaskets, again when I replaced the bread box with an aftermarket air cleaner. When I removed the rubber tubing (the downhill runs) from the fittings nothing ran out. The inside of the tubing was oily from the oil mist or vapors but there was no standing or accumulated oil or spooge or anything else. None. Anywhere.. When I unscrewed the right angle banjo bolt fittings no oil ran out. No excess of oil had accumulated in the passages or the banjo bolts other than a few drops in low places and recesses. And I removed the tubing and fittings about 30 minutes after shutting the engine off, if there had been any oil buildup there I would have seen it. I don't know why I got all the dire warnings about oil building up and blowing out but it simply did not happen. Ever. All or nearly all the oil vapor returning from the push rod tubes that came past the umbrella valve must have been being returned to the valve pockets and the normal drain route exactly as described in the service manual. The angle of the heads/rocker boxes, the "dam" or raised area around the umbrella valve and drainage hole, and the natural gravity draining was keeping any oil from building up anywhere down there and being blown out. The filter as I fitted it created virtually zero restriction to the flow or air or oil out of the breathers. You could breathe or blow through it easily. The small "standpipe" I created up into the filter with the piece of clear vinyl tubing in the filter was to allow some oil (3/4" or so?) to build up inside the filter before it could be pushed out but it never happened. I used the gas filter as a place to catch any oil that ame out and hoped that the element in it would act to filter oil vapor out. And it worked that way. I was surprised but that filter did not accumulate more than a teaspoon or two of oil in the 4,000 plus miles I put on it before I sold the M2. I drilled the oil return holes out to 1/8" (as recommended in the KV) when I did the rocker box gaskets but they drains were working fine before I did that. I replaced the original black upbrella valves (5 years old, <5,000 miles on them, starting to harden, but working fine) with the newer green ones also. And it still worked fine. The breather tubing on mine ended below the frame about even with the centerline of the muffler. After a thousand miles or so there was some light "soiling" down in that I assumed were from breather vapors but the amount of it was minimal and something that was removed by normal washing and cleaning. I later extended the outlet to hand a few inches lower. "The way it is routed in the pictures on that site pretty much guarantees that the oil traps and burps continuously. You really want that breather line to remain unobstructed at all times." I can't agree with that. I'm not saying it cannot happen but your predictions simply did not come true on my M2. I'm not trying to be critical of other catch can systems, I'll always "roll over" when the learning curve tells me something is not working, this worked for me. The OP said "Any input or experience is appreciated" and that is what prompted my reply. I've put a similar breather vent setup on my FXD, it runs all downhill because the bike leads itself to that kind of a setup better but it is working fine there too. When I look at the lower and center rocker covers, the angles and alignment of the drains and vents, I simply don't see much potential for, and certainly have never experienced, an instance of any amount of oil accumulating in the air breather outlet passage and outlet and then being blown into the tubing. Jack | ||
| Djkaplan |
With all respect to Loki, I found this to be the most whimsical ho'made catch-can of them all.  A great example of function making form drink too much and stay out too late. I bet he had a lot of fun making it... | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
He said whimsical!  Rube Goldberg would be pleased! | ||
| Jackbequick |
That's your basic "Hey! Look what I got!" install isn't it? Here is what mine looked like installed (attached to battery retaining strap), it was easy to see as long as I wasn't sitting on the bike. :>   Jack | ||
| Djkaplan |
Here's where I installed mine on my tuber...  This is a large fuel filter, but the paper filter element has been removed and replaced with a plastic net pot scrubber. I glued the little breather that came with my Forcewinder on top. I had to install the little vacuum fitting on the bottom to use as a drain. It fits under the left side and can hardly be seen with the bodywork on. It works as well as anything I could buy.  I have XB rocker covers now so the routing to the catch can is very short and runs downhill along it's entire length. You don't need $$$ for a catch-can when there are so many easy ways to make one. I spent less than $5 for mine. There are great home-brewed systems for XBs shown in the archives too. |
