| Author | Message | ||
     Staindus |
I have posted on this site before about how to get better performance out of my bike. The replies I got were helpful, but there were some replies that got me thinking. So instead of trying to get better performance out of my bike I would like to get some better performance out of me.  Recommendations on any good books would be great too. | ||
| Hammer71 |
Twist of the wrist 1 and 2 are of great value. There are others that I cant remember right now. Track day, or seeing you live right next to me, Mikexlr, Saintly and a few others here, come out for a ride and we can give a few pointers. Each of us has some strong points in our riding and have made eachother much better riders by following eachother and giving constructive critisism here and there. Look foward to hearing from ya. | ||
| Brineusaf |
I've found that riding with someone who is faster helps. You can look at their rear tire, see how much is left with their lean angle. That way you know you can still push your bike even further - confidence builder. The best riders are in shape riders. Working on your physical conditioning can have large payoffs as well. Both on, and off the bike. | ||
| Silverado140 |
I've seen it here before, but this article should be REQUIRED reading for any rider who enjoys performance riding on public roadways... http://www.ridehsta.com/html/safety.htm | ||
| Niceharleystuff |
Sport Rider - Riding Skills Series http://www.sportrider.com/ride/RSS/ | ||
| Bdabuell |
"Total Control" by Lee Parks is a good book also... you'll be amazed how much you learn at a track day... Hammer's right...ride with people and talk to them about anything/everything you can...and get out with Hammer, Mikexlr et al....they're good guys AND good riders | ||
| Trojan |
Now that winter is approaching it is the very best time of year to learn bike control (seriously!). Buy yourself a cheap winter hack and ride all winter in all weather (well almost all). That will improve your riding immeasurably and will give you much finer machine control than any track day will. Next summer I guarantee that you will be more confident, more comforable and faster on your bike  | ||
| Teeps |
Staindus, What is your goal for performance improvements? Do you want a fast bike, I.E. top speed, 1/4 mile, or race track lap times? For Top speed and 1/4 mile performance; I think you got the wrong bike. For lap times, on track day, you got the right equipment. You just need to learn how to extract Its performance. The best and safest way to learn to go fast is on a race track. Coached by a professional riding school instructor. After you ride quickly on a track. Your desire to do something stupid on the street will be greatly reduced. And, when you do decide to go stupid-fast on the street, as least you'll have some skills. Reading a book on going fast, while is "a" place to start, is by no means a panacea, for going fast. Going fast on the street is eventually not going to end well. | ||
| Tleighbell |
Smooth Riding by Reg Pridmore and another one by Nick Ienatch are both excellent and available from Whitehorse Press. | ||
| Prof_stack |
I've found that riding with someone who is faster helps. Great idea. I learned this following a friend through really wet roads over a mountain pass. | ||
| Trojan |
I've found that riding with someone who is faster helps. Great idea. I learned this following a friend through really wet roads over a mountain pass. If you are not confident/competent to start with then this can also be pretty much the most dangerous thing you can try apart from riding with your eyes closed! far better to learn at your own speed, not somebody elses. Teeps is right, you can read and watch as many articles, books, DVD's etc as you like. none of them will make you a better rider. The only thing that will do that is experience, where you may be able to put what you have read into practice. Get out and ride in the rain, That WILL make you a better rider  | ||
| Staindus |
Teeps, by Performance I mean to enhance my abilities as a rider. Not speed but control. I am not interested in going fast in a straight line but to be smooth on a very twisty roads and be able to push myself but doing so responsibly. Track days may be an option for me in the future (I already do PCA club events in my car but still a novice) I want to be able to use my bike to its full potential while keeping it stock. I have ridden with 2 experienced riders over the summer and I have learned allot and I know there is still allot to learn. Thanks for the book recommendations. I would like to ride more this winter but do not have the proper gear and need to save up for a wedding (I am lucky I was able to get the bike) Thanks for the links too. Thanks All  (Message edited by staindus on November 10, 2006) | ||
| Macbuell |
I totally agree with Trojan. Riding with faster riders and trying to keep up can be a recipe for trouble for an inexperienced rider. Always ride at your own pace, not someone else's. | ||
| Staindus |
I agree some what. You need to be smart enough to know where your own limits are. While riding with the experienced riders (one was on a gixxer) I was following and comfortable at a reasonable pace. He picked up the pace and I tried to follow but I felt myself going beyond my limits and sure enough mid corner on a decreasing radius turn I went in too hot and had to stop before I went off road. I realize now from reading a little bit of the 2 links, that I was target fixating and of course entered the turn too fast. I eventually caught up at my own pace and felt like an a$$. I learned that on my bike you need to use the brakes rather than just letting the engine do the braking on tight turns I believe because of the heavier flywheel?. I never saw the brake light on the gixxer because he was just rolling on and off the gas I guess he could do this because of a light flywheel? The rest of the ride I made sure to set my entry speed before diving in. But how do you know what speed? I guess that just comes with experience. | ||
| Daves |
I don't think Hammer is telling him to ride with them and try to keep up when they go as fast as they can down a road. It does help to ride with/follow faster riders, as long as the faster/better rider is going at a pace that is comfortable for the slower rider. The better rider can show cornering techniques,smoothness and many other things to the slower rider. | ||
| Skully |
Track day | ||
| Mikexlr650 |
staindus, come out with us, we're not street racers. we try to keep the speed to a realistic level, enough to feel the machine working underneath you while always keeping in mind where you are, public roads. there are few things cooler than the look on a riders face the first time they feel the bike working it's magic in a corner. this "feeling" is the reason i chose a buell, there are certainly much faster machines available, but nothing i have ever ridden feels better at a high degree of lean on a long sweeping corner. in the buell you have a mellow motor in an a top notch chassis, a perfect recipe for learning. go out and use it for what it was made for. | ||
| Morgans |
www.superbikeschool.com or a comparable school if you don't live near SoCal. | ||
| Brineusaf |
I wasn't saying to ride beyond your skill level when riding with faster riders. I was saying to simply ride WITH them. The other rider should be told (or will notice) that you cannot keep up to their pace, and would adjust accordingly. Slowing speeding up the pace while you improve. | ||
| Rocketman |
Troy Freakin Frankenfurter will be running winter sportsbike ride outs next Febuary / March. But only if it snows. Troy the Great | ||
| Kowpow225 |
First. Focus on the task. Be it a corner, Stopsign, Straightaway. Second. Listen to and feel the motorcycle. It'll tell you a lot as far as what it can and cannot do comfortably. Third. Ride every chance you get especially early on to get more seat time, however, pick your times days and routes before you go that way you won't bite off more than you can chew in rush hour traffic. Practice different body positions while you're learning. Be aware of road hazards and conditions like oil and debris. Fourth. This is the most important. BE SMART. Know your limits. Don't push it. Beware of cager. Kowpow | ||
| Mikexlr650 |
staindus, we're planning several track days/school events for next year, you are welcome to join us at any time. tracker95 and i were at the penguin school just six weeks ago, could not recommend it highly enough. we also ride every sunday and wednesday as a group during the season. riding skills are something you(all of us) will work on for as long as you ride. anyone who isn't trying to become a better rider should probably find another activity. if you want to pick up some skills quickly spend some time on a dirt bike, you can learn more in a day in the dirt than a month on the street. you live quite close to me, you can always stop by for some off-road time. i have a private track your welcome to use. | ||
| Metalstorm |
What's that old saying? Don't try to be fast, try to be smooth. Once you're smooth, fast will follow all on it's own. I think that's how it goes. Close enough anyway | ||
| Crashm1 |
Staindus, I used to autoX and raced dirt track for a few years a lot of the important skills needed to drive a car quickly and in control transfer to motorcycles. First if you haven't already, read the owners manual and set the suspension to your weight with gear, it's really important to start with a known baseline. Buell has spent a lot of time and effort to give you the info so use it. Eyes up is a must, you should be looking as far ahead as possible just like in the Porsche you want to be looking where you want to go. As long as your eyes are looking at where you want to go your brain will make the calculations to get you there. DO NOT look at the thing you want to avoid, you will hit it, honest. I think this is the most important thing I've learned about driving fast. Every time I've driven the front wheel(s) I'm slower and crash more. Keeping my vision as far ahead as possible slows the sense of speed and allows reaction time. I practice it all the time whether I'm on the bike or in a car my eyes are on the next corner not the one I'm in. Practice countersteering, it makes the transition from upright to full lean so quick and easy it's kinda scary. Relax! If you have a deathgrip on the bars you can't feel what the front tire is doing, plus it feeds unwanted input into the bars which makes controlling the bike harder than it needs to be. Throttle control is the same as a rear wheel drive car get on it smoothly and as aggressively as you can and still maintain traction. Get on the throttle as early as possible after turn in. The bike wants 60% of it's weight on the rear tire everywhere except turn entry. This allows the suspension to work in it's sweet spot and increases cornering clearance. I really like using late apexes when riding fast on the two lane back roads, it gives me more time to react to the unexpected, for example by late apexing a decreasing radius corner I'm not committing to full lean until I can see most of the turn and be sure there aren't any cars, sand, oil, tractors in my lane. Practice emergency braking from the speeds you ride at. It takes a good bit of time and distance to whoa a bike down from 60mph it takes considerably more than twice as long to stop from 120 mph. Hard braking takes a lot more control and thought on a bike IMHO than a car because bikes don't like a locked wheel at all. If you are hanging off the bike get your self moved early before you start your lean into the corner that way you don't feed any unwanted inputs into the controls and it allows the bike to take a set in the corner. Get your face as close to the inside mirror as you can that keeps the weight as low and to the inside as possible which makes the bike happy because it doesn't require as much lean angle for a given speed. Here's the biggies. Do track days it's safer than learning on the street. You can hit the same corner once every couple minutes and slowly ratchet up the speed. Increase speed SLOWLY it keeps the panic down to a managable level which allows you to make fewer errors (errors often equal crashing which sucks, ask me how I know). Have fun. (Message edited by crashm1 on November 10, 2006) | ||
| Daves |
Rocket, Is Troy going to do any of those rides in WI or Iowa? Man, I would love to ride with him. Maybe you could come along too?  | ||
| Prof_stack |
I've found that riding with someone who is faster helps. Great idea. I learned this following a friend through really wet roads over a mountain pass. If you are not confident/competent to start with then this can also be pretty much the most dangerous thing you can try apart from riding with your eyes closed! Far better to learn at your own speed, not somebody else's. Trojan, I would agree with you if I didn't know the rider. In my case, the other rider was my German cousin riding his HD Springer Softail with me on my Electra-Glide. He took it easy and showed me how easy it was to stay at a good pace. He knew I was usually overly cautious. Now, another time on my XB9S I almost got in trouble while with a pack of inline-4 sportbikes. I knew to back off from their antics and skill level. | ||
| Cochise |
Staindus, easiest thing to do is look farther down the road because it gives your brain time to process the road better. So if you're not looking far enough down the road you can't drive faster/better. | ||
| Surveyor |
I've found that riding with someone who is faster helps. You can look at their rear tire, I'm sorry but i don't think this is a good idea. You need to ride at your pace and above all look where you want to go -target fixation is your enemy. Riding on the balls of your feet or even your toes will help your balance hugely - it seems awkward to begin with as you have to move your feet to reach the controls but once you get used to it it's great and you save a fortune in boot leather too! | ||
| Staindus |
Great information keep it coming! I did an MSF course to get my license and learned allot of what Crashm was saying. Some of it was learned on a track in a car. But my first street bike was an 883R and now I am on a completely different bike. I got to take it out Saturday (solo) and practice. Some of the things I learned is that I was not looking through the turns and far ahead enough. I setup the suspension to the manual for my weight and turning/leaning now feels more confident. I still need practice in getting it smooth. I also learned about rider position. I slid back on the seat and crouched a bit more and I felt more stable because my arms were bent a little and I wasnt holding the bars as tight. Its a strange feeling when your head is almost out past the gauges | ||
| Ratyson |
Riding on the balls of your feet or even your toes will help your balance hugely Amen to that. After about 1 year of riding, and not feeling the confidence, I finally moved my feet on the pegs. Now that I am riding on the balls of my feet, my feeling of balance and control has increased tremendously. My cornering is MUCH more smooth now. Which leads me into my 2 cents worth for you. Work on smooth first, fast will come later. Pick your entry speed wisely so that you are not breaking during your turn. Get all of your breaking done prior to leaning into the turn. Look through the turn. Eas}y on the trottle at the apex, increasing slightly as you exit. | ||
| Ratyson |
whoops.. sorry for the double post. (Message edited by ratyson on November 13, 2006) | ||
| Reepicheep |
Two notes... Replace "follow a faster rider" with "follow a better rider going at your normal speed". I learned a boatload this way. Clearly, you have to be in control of yourself (meaning you are trying to learn, not getting sucked into a race) and you must have a high degree of trust in the other rider. Thanks to Mike Woddell, who taught me. I can still see his XR-650 (complete with knobbies) leaned deep into a turn following a perfect line. I learned a ton. One other note... while much of "the pace" is great, one of the things they advocate caused me to lowside on the Cyclone. I can't say for sure that the lowside was unavoidable otherwise, but I would have had a lot better chance. It advocates not leaning off the bike at all, staying straight up in the saddle. This is good if you are already adept at leaning off, as it forces you to keep a big margin. But if you are not good at leaning off already, all it does is throw away margin, as you never train yourself to lean off. In my case I was doing the "pace" thing, happily dragging pegs on my M2 (which is really a fairly moderate lean, and nowhere near dragging pegs on an XB). I drove right through this little invisible "smooth sided sinkhole" in the asphalt. Due to mottled sunlight, the thing was virtually invisible. Because the bike was leaned over, the rear suspension was not able to extend appropriatetely to keep the rear tire in contact with the ground. The front tire hung on (barely). I'm guessing a telescopic front is more effective then a swingarm rear. But I digress. Because the bike was probably at a 45 degree angle, the suspension does not work nearly as well. Had I been leaning off on the same turn at the same speed, the bike would have been far closer to upright, and that may have given me the suspension margin I needed. Or maybe not, no way to tell and I am not interested in repeating the excercise. So I would temper the part about not leaning off, and say put yourself in a position to lean off and lean off slightly. Just don't hang off like an idiot and ride at 9/10ths so you have no margin to correct a line if things don't go to plan. Otherwise, I think the pace article is great! | ||
| Norcalbuell |
Lean OR Die!!!!!!!!! | ||
| Bébèrt |
??? Riding skills with a Buell. Race the streets without the use of your front tire. http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vids. individual&videoid=949314779  | ||
| G234146 |
Not trying to hijack, but it's related... has anyone seen these: http://www.ridelikeapro.com/ | ||
| Brineusaf |
I've found that riding with someone who is faster helps. You can look at their rear tire, I'm sorry but i don't think this is a good idea. You need to ride at your pace and above all look where you want to go -target fixation is your enemy. Riding on the balls of your feet or even your toes will help your balance hugely - it seems awkward to begin with as you have to move your feet to reach the controls but once you get used to it it's great and you save a fortune in boot leather too! This is sooo hard to explain - I didn't mean stare at their tire the entire time. Anyone who's ridden a bike for any amount of time would know that target fixation is our enemy. I was implying to simply glance at their tire.. | ||
| Staindus |
I understood what you were saying Brine. I think a big part of my problem is determining entry speed and I need to get more comfortable moving around on the bike itself. | ||
| Mikexlr650 |
all the more reason for a track school. or at the very least riding with people who are willing to run the same set of curves with you all day trying different techniques and gradually increasing speed as the confidence comes. can't wait till spring, warm tires and asphalt make all of this so much better! | ||
| Riclyd |
Play with your bike, play with your limits but don't push them. Then you will get to know your bike and improve your self. Happy riding |
