| Author | Message | ||
     Spatten1 |
I was doing a chain conversion and the mainshaft seal popped off. There is rust in the needle bearings between the outer drive gear and the mainshaft and there is a lot of play in the bearing. Not good. (1) Can I do anthing short of splitting the cases to change the needle bearing(s)? (2) To split the cases and remove the gears, bearings, etc., are HD special tools needed as the manual specifies, or can the operations be done with generic pullers, etc? I know this might be considered a KV question, but I just need quick answers from as wide an audience as possible. | ||
| Hogs |
HEy Spatten1, No help there from me on that one But I was wondering how many miles on that gear, Might be something for us all to keep an eye out for, Hope you get it all tighten up soon... All the Best. | ||
| Jackbequick |
That is pretty well covered in the KV, it was once of the failures that was experienced on the tubers. Especially if you ran the drive belt too tight. And adjusting the belt as per the service manual instructions was too tight. Way too tight. Look at Reep's pictures and description here, it may answer your questions: http://www.badweatherbikers.com/cgibin/discus/show.cgi?tpc=3842&post=198002#POST 198002 Jack | ||
| Spatten1 |
Only 5k, but it was water that killed the bearing. I think it may have been the water that comes in through the clutch cable. When I bought the bike the tranny oil had water in it. Either that or just a bad seal on the end of the drive gear. | ||
| Spatten1 |
Wow, thanks Jack. I tried to do a key word seach last night and came up dry. That is what my bike would have looked like soon enough if I had not found the problem early. I hope my gear and shaft are not damaged. This is very disapointing. | ||
| Jackbequick |
If none of the needles are damaged, broken, or missing your gear and shaft may be okay. The belt tensioner on the XB's seems to have solved the problems with that bearing getting over stressed. I'm not sure if the bearing fails and then the seal or vice versa. But replacing them is not easy. I think I would do it as a matter of routine anytime I had to pull the transmission. Maybe someone here has the puller that would make that job easier and is willing to loan it out? Jack | ||
| Reepicheep |
Unless they made some radical change, you will have to split the cases on an XB. This is the one way the XBs were a step backwards from the tuber. You have to press out the whole 5th gear drive assembly from the cases, and you can then press out those needle bearings. That sucks, sorry to hear it. If it were me, I would probably pull the engine myself, and strip it down, and take that to a good dealer to have them split the cases and replace that bearing, and rebuild any parts of the tranny that have wear. Check you oil pump drive gear while it is all apart as well. It's a shame we lost the trap door... it would have made the XB's an almost infinitely garage rebuildable bike. That being said, if you do all the disassembly work, the dealer work will probably be expensive but tolerable, and you are paying them to have lots of special tools and good experience. It's money well spent. | ||
| Reepicheep |
Man those pictures bring back good memories. I love my 9sx, and it's a better bike then the M2 in any way I can think to measure (aside from rebuilding transmissions), but I will forever have an M2 shaped hole in my heart. (though I bet I could fit an S1 into it nicely  ) And I completely forgot after doing that job that i had to go back in *three* times. First, the crank nut got loose. I thought I must have not cleaned and lock-tited carefully enough, but in hindsight after the service bullitin, I bet it was just the "manual torque is too light" problem. Then the stator bolts came loose. I remember fixing them, I don't remember how I knew they were loose. I probably heard them ringing in there and thought I messed up the crank nut again. Then the crank seal I replaced got cut through, because instead of taking the time and care to get the right tools like Henrik, I just jammed it in there until it seated. Against the bearings  (though the second time I still did not use the right tool, I used the infamous green tinker toy, and that worked fine ). | ||
| Sammigs |
OFF TOPIC: SPATTEN1 (Scott) = I've been trying to reach you for some time now. Did you get any of my private messages? Sam Migliori (destroyed blue XB9R) I apologize for breaking the chain guys.  | ||
| Spatten1 |
Reep: Thanks for the advice, I may just do that. I'll at least pull engine and the top end, the easy stuff. I'd hate to screw around without the proper special tools and make a mistake, and have to go back in. I thought these things were supposed to be so easy to work on.... | ||
| Spatten1 |
Sammy: I've been meaning to call you for two months, since I picked up stakes and moved out to Denver. I knew you'd be wondering why I wasn't up in a tree in your yard every morning waiting for an innocent large mammal to walk by.... I'll call you to catch up. | ||
| Spatten1 |
PS, did not get any of the PMs. | ||
| Reepicheep |
I have not split the cases, before... this is probably a stupid question, but do you need to touch the top end to split them? If I were designing it, even if I did make it so I had to split the cases, I would make it such that I could do so without disturbing anything above the cases if possible. But everything I learned about Mechanical Engineering was from an Electrical Engineering school The loss of the trapdoor tranny is dissapointing. I bet they wish they had it back for the Uly... roadside transmission rebuilds has to be an attractive capability for an adventure bike. | ||
| Hogs |
Reepicheep, I have never done them YeT either, But don`t see how ya could do it without splitting them as they split from side to side and not top to bottom... | ||
| Spatten1 |
Generally on a crancase that splits vertically the cylinders straddle the two halves. Therefore, you have to remove the cylinders to seperate the halves. I assume that is the case on the XB, but do not have a picture handy. I'm not looking forward to learning about the internals of this engine..... | ||
| Reepicheep |
That makes sense the more I think about it. It's a shame (from a disassembly standpoint) the cylinders don't all bolt onto one half of the case, and that the seam does not run around them. Seems like that would be easier to machine as well, you would not need a base gasket to be straddeling a seam. It would create lots of other problems though, you would have to build in all sorts of interlocking supports, on every single bike, all just for the purpose of saving a few hours when splitting the cases. I guess if you are pulling the engine anyway, you are only talking about another couple hours to remove the whole top end. All to say... Bring back the trap door! | ||
| Spatten1 |
With the input here, I am assuming that my way-to-tight belt (I've mentioned on other posts) wrecked the bearings. HOWEVER, there is no adjustment for the belt tension. I just don't get it. The belt tightness may have been caused by a wreck that scraped the swingarm a bit. I don't really know. If anyone has a very tight belt, watch out for this problem! | ||
| Roc |
What lube did you have in there? Sounds like it didn't make it to those bearings. It's winter and your engine is comming apart anyway - go big bore! (Message edited by roc on October 25, 2006) | ||
| Reepicheep |
The lube is supposed to be from the transmission fluid. For the record, my M2 (pictures referenced above) damage was caused by an overtight belt as well. (editid for a "don't type and talk at the same time" style typo) (Message edited by reepicheep on October 25, 2006) | ||
| Thepup |
Spatten,I just got my bike back from the third bearing and shaft replacement,seems my belt must be to tight.The shop who worked on it told me it will happen again. | ||
| Reepicheep |
Oh, and also for the record... "too tight" is not something you feel when adjusting the belt... it feels fine when you are sitting there. You feel it when you "bottom out the suspension" on a bump, but werent actually bottoming out the suspension... it was the belt keeping the swingarm from moving. That represents *thousands* of pounds of force. Ask Blake for the real math. I think the stock XB is pulling 300 pounds of force regardless of swingarm position, which is optimal for the life of the belt, and chump change for those big bearings. Dont know how far you would have to bend something to get things far enough out of tolerance to actually load an XB belt out of a rational range. Should be easy to measure belt tension, and if wrong you could pretty easily machine the belt tensioner pully to get a little "slack". | ||
| Roc |
I think heavier than stock transmission fluid can cause this failure as well, say Redline Heavy Shockproof when you ride in 30 to 40 degree weather. If the outer seal has failed it seems like there should then be an oil leak, if the bearings are getting lube. Lube should also prevent the bearings from rusting, no? | ||
| Spatten1 |
I know mine is too tight for two reasons: Upgraded 2003 belt wore the rubber away on the left inner portion in 500 miles, showing cord. 2004 upgrade belt was banjo string tight, then loosened up after some riding. However, there are cracks all around the left side of the belt. The belt appears to line up fine on both pulleys, does not rub on anything. I don't know why there is no adjustment, I'm friggin baffled. Now that I think of it, if the belt is really tight, one can certainly oblong one of the holes in the tensioner and make your own adjustments. It seems that there should be some factory advice on this one. | ||
| Spatten1 |
Pup: That is upsurd. Did you at least get it done under warranty? I don't have that option. I am a bit frustrated. Other than my X1 I've never had to deal with issues like this before. | ||
| Thepup |
Luckily I purchased the extended warranty.It's really getting old,no other problems but that one,I have never had belt problems.The guy I took it to checked all the tolerances in the engine and said they are almost like new,just that damn transmission shaft and bearing. | ||
| Roc |
Spatten1 - We had an new XB9s that had belt tracking problems, it was tracking away from the rear wheel though. The tech checked everything including the factory suggestion of flipping the belt. He ended up replacing the idler pulley assembly with a known good one and the belt tracked straight. | ||
| Roc |
Belt tracking problem could also be a symptom of the failed needle bearings on the output shaft; lacking suport the drive belt, with proper tension, tracks to the side. | ||
| Roc |
Work is kind of slow and I have people to ask, so I'll just keep posting. I'm told that if the belt is to tight the bearings and race will usually walk in. | ||
| Spatten1 |
I did use Mobil One gear lube for about 1000 miles, but have used Mobile One 20/50 motor oil since then. I don't know what the original owner ran for the first 3k miles. | ||
| Typeone |
sort of a side note (sorry to hear your issues, Spatten), but i'm wondering if the FreeSpirits or HBM idler with spring would help the 'too tight' situation (?) i know we have yeah and ney threads about it on BadWeb but it's always seemed like a smart mod to me. this thread may have just cemented my want for one. EDIT: obviously that wouldn't help if the belt wasn't tracking properly. i'm only speaking of belt tension. (Message edited by typeone on October 26, 2006) | ||
| Spatten1 |
I'm a bit biased right now, but I think that aftermarket tensioner should be installed at the factory. I wish I'd bought one, then I'd be riding right now. |
