| Author | Message | ||
     Kowpow225 |
Could someone with an XB9 take the 12 throttle body, tps, velocity stack etc. and fit it to their bike and then do some direct link tuning? Would it be an improvement or would it create dips in the torque curve? I've always been curious of this and I feel like the small throttle body of the nine is more of a blockage used to smooth power delivery. What are your thoughts? It seems as though a dual TB setup is good for higher horsepower, ala XBRR and Tilleys previous bikes so I'm wondering if this might have merit. | ||
| Slaughter |
If you have the valves and cams where you need more flow, it works My XB9 is bored to 1169cc, XB-12 throttle body also bored 2mm oversize. Really should use a high pressure fuel regulator or the standard won't put out enough fuel per squirt. Stage 3 heads, 585 cams. Bike ran OK but throttle response was off until we put in the high pressure fuel regulator. I haven't used the Direct Link so can't comment but it should work just fine. You will need dyno time unless you find somebody with a map that works on a similar engine. Hit up Al at American Sport Bike. He's really got the DL stuff wired - or Terry Parsley at Vallejo HD/Buell. I know Al and Terry were working on Terry's Ulysses at Laguna Seca together with Al's laptop and Terry's done a lot of racebike tuning. (Message edited by slaughter on October 21, 2006) | ||
| Tigerbythetail |
hi..............which ECM do you use? tiger (Message edited by tigerbythetail on October 21, 2006) | ||
| Hogs |
Slaughter, Thanks for replying the other day on my email BTW, anyways when you bored out your TB 2mm did you have to get a new throtle flap or anything there inside? OH on the note of the high pressure fuel regulator have you one now and if so can ya give me some details on it? Thanks................ | ||
| Slaughter |
I had the throttle body built up for me and the guy doing the build put in the larger flapper thingamajiggie. I'll email you the details. I got the high pressure fuel regulator directly from Buell Racing - and I'd bet somebody more expert in these things can say if there's an equivalent in the automotive market. The "race only" stuff from Buell isn't really available to the general public - my guess is there's too much trouble for the Factory in supporting people building motors that violate the EPA rules. (that's why the aftermarket parts are probably the best way to go) If you have a bigger motor and are spinning it lots faster, what happens with your fuel injection is that the pulses or squirts of fuel end up taking so long that combustion efficiency goes down. For the same amount of fuel, the High Pressure regulator enables the fuel "squirt" to take place in a shorter time. (at least that's how I picture it in my mind) From everything I have read, the Direct Link can handle just about every fuel injection need on almost every motor - but if you are building a BIG motor and plan on spinning it FAST, you might need more fuel - I just don't have a good answer there for you. You might hit up Al at American Sport Bike to see if he's put Direct Link on a really big motor. I'd bet you would be plenty fine since you really shouldn't spin it really fast. We can bump our rev limiter to 8500 and with the bigger 1169, the standard fuel system really can't keep up - regardless of what the controller is calling for (therefore the HP regulator) | ||
| Kowpow225 |
This is making sense since the injector pulse would be too long for your application. I've got an XB9. The 12s have got a 5mm(?) bigger throttle body and butterfly valve. My assumption would be that if I fitted the 12 TB components to my 9, it would yield some better dyno numbers particularly on the top end, granted with some loss on the bottom end. I'm not sure if it'd be worth it but I have always been curious if it could be a mod worth looking into... | ||
| Slaughter |
I don't have flow data I'm afraid. That means I can't really say that there is an advantage to the larger throttle body for the lower displacement motor. I really don't think it would be worth the money. Again - that's a gut reaction, I have no data to back that up. If you've got a stock displacement motor or up to maybe 1050cc (max bolt-on displacement without boring the cases) - I really don't know if you could see enough benefit to larger throttle body to justify the expense and headache of tuning it. I know Fread Finnerty at San Diego races an XB9 with that 1050cc kit with the "over the counter" Race ECM (not programmable). (he ALSO started racing their XBRR last month too!!!) Since it uses the stock pipes, it still has the oxygen sensors and can adjust fuel mixtures. On dyno runs, it seems to be good on managing fuel. Keep in mind, you CAN get more power by turning these motors faster but not everybody is lucky enough to have a shop foolish enough to do all required engine work each month so I am willing to risk damage by spinning the motor to 8300-8500 RPM once in a while. Using the stock ECM with Direct Link won't let you mess up the redline or run way too lean. The FULL RACE ECM lets you set your own redline (DANGER, DANGER Wil Robinson!) - and can also cause a motor meltdown if you misinterpret the fuel call-outs in the tables. Tuning with the full-on race ECM is really like tuning two separate big single cylinder race bikes. Two separate maps for each cylinder and two separte ignition curves. For 99% of the applications, stay with something like Direct Link or the "over the counter" Race ECM (if you can get one). (Message edited by slaughter on October 22, 2006) | ||
| Slaughter |
Tigerbythetail, Forgot to mention that I use the full factory race module since my bike is strictly race-only. The only advantage to a full race module instead of what you can buy over the counter is that you can mess with ALL aspects of engine control - fuel, timing, type of rev limiter and where your redline is. Just the fact that you can run EXTREMELY lean or EXTREMELY advanced on timing - anywhere in the power band means that if you take chances on just running a map without a day on the dyno means you have a good chance of melting down your motor or holing your pistons. If I were doing a custom-motored streetbike that was much bigger than stock or flowed TONS more air than stock, I'd lean toward the DL or something similar (though I haven't heard of anything that does as good as the DL) | ||
| Buelldyno_guy |
One of the issues with the XB12 TB bored from 49 to 52 mm is that you will need a matching intake stack. We use Hillborn stacks from sprint cars and are still working on the correct length. We are also using larger injectors as well as the 450 kPa pressure reg. and will be working on maps for both the Henry Duga Buell ECM as well as Over the Counter Stock and Race ECM' using Direct Link. To date we have not found a supply source for the big injectors or regulators other that HD at Buell. ... Terry | ||
| Blake |
Henry Duga (HD) ROCKS!  | ||
| Tigerbythetail |
hi...............thx very much for the detailed reply. I currently run on my XB12 road bike (FAST, Stage1, DeepThunder, Aluminium Primary drive) a XB9 race ECM with the curves of the XB12. This way I have the XB9 rev limiter as this is a hardware thing with this type of ECM (reprogramming was done with direct link by Stefan Freitag/Germany). We are currently building a 1208er short stroke engine, that has 7 Kg less rotating masses (ALU primary, Clutchplates, Custom build alternator, 47.5 mm intake valve stage 2 heads, custom exhaust etc.)......I really want to see what we can do with regards to fuel delivery. Your setup sounds very interesting and the info given is much appreciated. Greetings tiger | ||
| Diablobrian |
Henry Duga is a good guy. |
