| Author | Message | ||
     Buellblastrider |
i know this should be in the knowledge vault (which it is) but i figured i would reach a wider range here and hopefully somebody has had and fixed this problem. bike runs great when cold or warm but when it gets hot and you go up to 5000 is feels like your hitting the rev limiter, except much harder. sometimes if you get on it, it will die instead of cutting out. when a mechanic at the shop test rode it he came back and the fuel pump (and light) wasn't coming on. finally it did. we pressure checked the fuel system and that is ok. anyone have a clue. the bike is a 2004 XB12S with 15,1XX miles. | ||
| Glitch |
Head temp sensor would be my first guess. | ||
| Bake |
Where does the rev limiter cut in on the 12? | ||
| Glitch |
6800? | ||
| Davo |
I would check secondary ignition (spark plug wires) and battery terminals and then proceed from there. It could be the coil. Try to pull some codes manually. Do you have a manual? | ||
| Roc |
Wiring harness rubbed through on terminal connecting to battery? Temp sensor? | ||
| Buellblastrider |
first of all thanks for the help (everyone) i work at a harley dealer but its funny that they are clueless because they stopped selling buells and this is the first problem like this they have seen. the part that is confusing me is that its not throwing a code and it only does this when its hot. how do you throw a code manually? we do have manuals for it there at the shop. the bike is still under warranty but to get it covered i would have to take it to a dealer that still sells buells and that is not an easy task. if its something small i will pay it and fix it. i just don't want to continually buy small things to try to find the problem. what do you guys think? its gotta be something minor its just a matter of finding it. oh and yes my rev limiter is at 6800. P.S. if it makes any difference to you, my bike has a race kit, and open airbox as far as performance is concerned. | ||
| Davo |
In order to retrieve trouble codes w/o software: Get a short piece of 18 ga. wire about 12” long with two small insulated alligator clips. The manual uses part number 72191-94 (two of them) as end connectors instead of the alligator clips. Go to the data link connector that is located on the left side just under the edge of the seat. Remove the rubber insert. There are four pins inside. Looking at the connector with the locking hasp pointed down. The pin orientation is such that pin # 1 and pin #2 are both on your left. See below: #2 #3 #1 #4 lock With the key and ignition off, connect pin #1 and pin #2 with the home made jumper. Make sure you do not touch the other pins! Then turn the key and the ignition on. Do not start the bike. The engine light should start to flash: If it flashes many times (about 10 or 11, to fast to count for me) very fast, then there are NO trouble codes. Otherwise there will be 6 quick flashes at 3 per second and this is an intermission. Then there will be a 2 second pause Then count the number of one second flashes separated by 1 second pauses and this will be your first digit. Then there will be a 2 second pause Then count the number of one second flashes separated by 1 second pauses and this will be your second digit. Then there will be a 2 second pause Start back at intermission of 6 flashes…………..and so on…….. This will continue until you turn off the ignition and the key and remove the jumper. If you remove the jumper without turning off the ignition the engine light will continue to cycle trouble codes. If you have a trouble code and then you correct the problem that created the code. The bike will automatically clear the codes after 50 start and run sessions of at least 30 seconds or more. Until then the code will remain even if the problem is fixed. Trouble code list: 11-TPS 13- O2 sensor 14-ET (engine temp) 15-air intake temp 16-battery voltage 21-exhaust actuator 23-front injector 24-front coil 25-rear coil 32-rear injector 33-fuel pump 35-tach 36-fan 44-bank angle sensor 52, 53, 54, 55- ECM failure 56-cam sync. Failure Good luck. There is a more detailed account of this procedure in the shop manual. There is also flow charts to correct all of the fault conditions. This procedure has pulled codes that my VDSTS Pro USA did not pull. The VDSTS could clear them but it could not recognize all of them. I never leave home without my jumper wire, list of the codes, small box of fuses, electrical tape, and an extra relay. I hope this helps.! | ||
| Buellblastrider |
thank you very much. at first i thought this problem was due to my 15,000 mile service because it didn't really show up until after i serviced it (myself) but i recal on 2 occasions (before the service) that i had to try 3 times to start my bike on the third attempt it shot flames out of the muffler. here recently it takes 3 attempts to start. the first time it stays on for a few seconds, second attempt will last for a minute, and third time it will stay on. at first i just contributed it to the cold weather. | ||
| Davo |
Check the plug wires at the plugs and at the coil. Maybe even put some dielectric silicone around the insulators on the coil. It sounds like #1 might not be firing all the time. If it were #2 then the O2 would be sending some very rich signals to the ECM and the engine would be popping due to a lean correction on the only good cylinder. A miss on #1 might put some raw fuel in the pipe that could shoot flames as you described. | ||
| Buellblastrider |
Thank you so much for all your help Davo!!! | ||
| Davo |
The wire caps can be pushed back out of the way and then snap the metal connectors on the plugs and the coil then slide the cover caps back in place. The wires are not like automotive type wires that connect as soon as the wire cover caps are in place. I use a plastic spark plug wire connector tool to make the connections. Needle nose pliers work on #1 but be careful not to scratch the frame. Plug wire connection is the toughest part of servicing the bike. | ||
| Frequency |
My bike is in the shop for almsot the same problem, 05 cityX They replaced a few switches to correct shorts i picked her up today and rode for 15 miles before it started acting up again, they popped her ont he dyno for about 20 mins and nothing they are baffled | ||
| Tunes |
Up to 5K rpm the bike runs perfectly. What is changing at 5K rpm as the engine is increasing rpms? Increased fuel flow... Fuel pump? Increased exhaust flow... Leaks?? O2 sensor? Increased mechanical activity... ? Increased Ignition/ECM activity... Doesn't the ignition advance as revs increase? If the ignition were to retard instead of advance, would the engine behave in the same fashion? Would fuel starvation do the same thing? Engine breather blockage? Just throwin' ideas... | ||
| Glitch |
Davo  | ||
| Pcmodeler |
I had something similar happen and it was the engine temp sensor. Think it was $35 for the part, but you need a slotted socket to remove/install it. | ||
| Davo |
Tunes, The spark timing only changes about 3 degrees between 4500 and 5500 at each perspective TPS setting. 4K is supposed to be the closed loop cut off point but I think it may be higher. I can not read a switch to open loop from closed loop without further log testing. I am going to run several logs looking at the ECM/O2 read out instead of focusing on the AFV. I will post any significant findings. | ||
| Tunes |
Thanks Davo! I understand old school points and such and have an understanding of the ECM but, I have not read any ignition specifications. 3 degrees isn't much change... I'm interested in reading your findings. | ||
| Buellblastrider |
ok you all are getting over my head. thanks again Davo! the fuel delivery can be eliminated as far as i know because we did a fuel pressure check and its good all through the RPM's | ||
| Kds1 |
Buellblastrider, The last time I heard a story like this, it was a faulty bankangle sensor....it never set a code or turned on the check engine light, the bike would sit and cool and crank up and run fine, raise the rpms and it dies....check it anyway, take one off a bike you know is working and try it.. something else I want to say.....EVERYONE that has an XB....when you get time remove your airbox and on the right side of the throttle body there is a fitting pointing up that has a black rubber cap, take that turd off and put yourself a new one on there.....every bike I've seen so far has had a few cracks in them and one of the guys here on the board will tell you a story about then problems that little cap will cause...happy hunting!!!! Kevin www.kdfab.com | ||
| No_rice |
mine didnt even come with one. i just noticed it once one of the first times i had it apart. had to go find one | ||
| Buellblastrider |
thanks KDS1. i'm really planning on getting into it tomorrow | ||
| Sparky |
"when you get time remove your airbox and on the right side of the throttle body there is a fitting pointing up that has a black rubber cap..." FYI, Calif models have a hose on that fitting for the EVAP cannister. For 49 state models, instead of replacing a cracked cap with another cap, how about fitting a small piece of blocked off hose? |
