| Author | Message | ||
     Hattori_hanzo |
Yeah..spotted here in the valley of the sun, where they just happen to have the HD proving grounds. Our own Badweb member, Wyckedflesh, worked there prior to his accident. He saw some pretty cool things for sure...he was there when they were developing the Uly...but never revealed what he saw. I think you could try to ask him what was being tested, but if he told you anything he'd then have the right to kill ya!  | ||
| Blake |
I doubt the water part, seriously. | ||
| Fandango186 |
So it looks like our choices are: Air cooled = better EPA performance, or Water cooled = better street performance? | ||
| Skully |
Air cooled = better EPA performance, The current air cooled Buell engines are one of the few street based engines in current production that *do not* require a catalytic converter. So why would you say that unless you are referring to the noise reduction you get from a water jacket? | ||
| Fandango186 |
Yes, Blake already said that, but it seems according to the Specs, if you want to make horse power, you have to go water cooled, then suffer the slings & arrows of the EPA & catalitic converters? | ||
| Diablobrian |
Erik has stated that noise is one of the main reasons we do not have 6 speed transmissions in the XB series, so noise is an issue that does call for sacrifices in an EPA regulated air-cooled motorcycle. They always find a way to stick it to us!  | ||
| Pupu |
how would a 6 speed make more noise? | ||
| Skully |
but it seems according to the Specs, if you want to make horse power, you have to go water cooled The XBRR makes 80% more horsepower than a street going XB. It is not water cooled. | ||
| Spatten1 |
I worked for a Japanese OEM and did emissions certification. At the time, in the late 90's, Cats were cheaper than closed loop systems, period. That is a fact, and that is what the decision to go with our first cat was based on. We could have gone either way. However, high reving short stroke engines may be less efficient at low rpm, as Blake said, if they are tuned for maximum efficiency at 12,000, and emissions tests are run at 3,000 to 4,000. I do not have enough knowledge on that subject to do more than speculate, but it does make sense to me. | ||
| Spatten1 |
PS., for high production vehicles closed loop systems are relatively cheap to develop and manufacuture, but most Japanese sportbikes have short runs and relatively low production, so it was/is not so cost efficient to go closed loop. That should be changing soon. I have been out of the game for a while, but I don't know of any Japanese sportbikes with closed loop systems. Please correct me if I'm wrong on this matter. Closed loop with a cat is obviously the most efficient way to go, but then you are talking $$$ that is passed straight to the consumer. Japanese bikes are much more price sensitive than Buells, HDs, or European models. | ||
| Blake |
Great point Keith.  Scott, That is very interesting. | ||
| Fandango186 |
The XBRR makes 80% more horse power than my XB??? That's almost twice the HP. I find that hard to believe? | ||
| 45_degrees |
150+ HP for the RR (with 105 db complying muffler)... 64% more than a 9 (92 HP) and 46% more than a 12 (103 HP). It also holds 4 quarts of oil... that would help keep things cooler. | ||
| Skully |
64% more than a 9 (92 HP) When I said 80% horsepower, I was referring to stock. The XB9 makes mid to upper 70s, not anywhere near low 90s stock. | ||
| Anonymous |
Skully is correct with the power increase percentage, as the XBRR is measured rear wheel not by the SAE crank bhp process. And Pupu, A six speed makes more noise because you have to run the sound tests by accelerating through the test area in 2nd and 3rd gear, and if the gearing is deeper on these two (Like close ration 6 speed would do), the sound numbers go higher because the bike accelerates more quickly and revs higher. A 6 speed overdrive with no other ratio changes would not affect this, although the extra gear pair would make a tiny bit more noise. But sportbikes don't need overdrives. | ||
| Mutation_racer |
i race the XBRR for liberty hd buell and i'll tell you the DAM THING DON'T NEED NO WATER IT BAD A$$ and thats no joke it is super fast and makes no noise | ||
| Josh_cox |
The XBRR is not much louder than a stock XB. Really. It is quieter than the Buell race kit. It sounds about like a stock H-D pipe, but boy oh boy does it perform. | ||
| Slamber777 |
Anybody see the October issue of Motorcyclist? Page 16? There's a spy shot out of a water cooled, left hand drive, 883 Sportster. lt looks like a V-Rod engine but not near as big and bulky. lt's coming folks. | ||
| Anonymous |
No it isn't, Slamber, but dream on, folks. And remember, when it doesn't show up, where you heard it wasn't real vs. where you heard it was... | ||
| Diablobrian |
How long until we get an exhaust for the XB's that flows enough volume to support XBRR Hp levels and is just as quiet? I'd be interested. | ||
| 45_degrees |
Oops... I didn't know the RR was measured at the wheel. Well that makes it even more impressive than it already is! Awesome! But wait a minute here... the website specifications for hp and torque on all the XBs, even the RR says this... (North America per SAE J607).  | ||
| 45_degrees |
So if a 9 is ~75 hp at the wheel and the RR is ~150 at the wheel... that is a 100% increase, not 80%. | ||
| Sakuc |
PS., for high production vehicles closed loop systems are relatively cheap to develop and manufacuture, but most Japanese sportbikes have short runs and relatively low production, so it was/is not so cost efficient to go closed loop. That should be changing soon. I have been out of the game for a while, but I don't know of any Japanese sportbikes with closed loop systems. Please correct me if I'm wrong on this matter. Closed loop with a cat is obviously the most efficient way to go, but then you are talking $$$ that is passed straight to the consumer. Japanese bikes are much more price sensitive than Buells, HDs, or European models. New Yamahas have O2/closed loop AFAIK. You can even adjust your fuel settings from the cockpit buttons if you know how to enable the function. (So you can richen it up if you have, say Akra system installed, without PowerCommander) | ||
| Blake |
 | ||
| Blake |
You can even adjust your fuel settings from the cockpit buttons if you know how to enable the function. The EPA would go for that? I doubt it. | ||
| Fandango186 |
I'll bet the guys on The Busa sites are laughing about us posting Dyno charts of 150 HP! | ||
| M1combat |
Maybe... but let's see a stock Habyuasa (well, with tires) outrun a stock RR on any racetrack . Don't get me wrong... I wouldn't mind owing a nice hyper touring bike but that's what a Hayabusa is... A touring bike. | ||
| Sakuc |
The EPA would go for that? I doubt it. I know for sure the fueling is adjustable on 2005+ R1's. | ||
| Macbuell |
The Busa is an ugly, absurd bike that you would never find anywhere near my garage. And as M1 pointed out, the XB series and the Busa have nothing in common in terms of purpose or design philosophy. | ||
| Im666er |
OK, how about a GSXR 1000? |
