| Author | Message | ||||||||||||||||||
     Thepup |
"Puppy boy, Dave Estok finished ahead of the two GTU GSXR1000 entries in the CCS endurance race at Road America; the XBRR also bested the GTU ZX10R and YZFR1 entries as well. The results for overall winner don't include the Solo Challenge entries. But Dave and the XBRR did indeed finish ahead of the GSXR1000, at Road America, a high speed track. Steve Crevier also finished ahead of most of the literbikes; he also set a track class record (ASRA Superbike) at Road America, wich is a high speed track. The XBRR was able to outpace the literbikes there, at a high speed track. Get over it." The results I seen where for the solo challenge,I guess the website is wrong. | ||||||||||||||||||
| Diablobrian |
What he was saying is that the team and solo challenges run at the same time. The web site is not wrong, it just separates out the classes. | ||||||||||||||||||
| Jima4media |
This V-Rod lost the race in the pits. The winner was in the pits 21 times for 19 minutes. The V-Rod was in the pits 27 times for an hour and 15 minutes. You can do a lot of laps in an hour. | ||||||||||||||||||
| Jens |
http://www.worldendurance.co.uk/06/oschersleben/raceresult.pdf One of the KTM was 6 times more and 45min longer in the Pits and have 9 racelaps more. The VRod had two extra stops with app. 15min each. First they lost a nut from the header second they had in the night a problem with the lightelectric. Thats more than okay for the first start of a new project. The general pitwork of the VROD crew was slow comparing to the WC championship. The winning Suzuki lost 2 x time, first with a broken chain, second with a leaking fueltank. I remember for the first 10 Stops they had a bit more than 6 minutes on the counter. Including in and out the leading teams needing 45sec. For that you need a lot of practice, the VROD crew can not have on a brandnew project. But loosing 10 sec per lap on a more than 800 lap race means to loose 2h to the winning team. If they have the same pittime like the winner, they are still much more than an hour behind. Jens | ||||||||||||||||||
| Jkhawaii |
a revolution engine would probly do well in a big super bike the size of a hayabusa or zx14. | ||||||||||||||||||
| Trojan |
Dave Estok finished ahead of the two GTU GSXR1000 entries in the CCS endurance race at Road America; the XBRR also bested the GTU ZX10R and YZFR1 entries as well. The results for overall winner don't include the Solo Challenge entries. But Dave and the XBRR did indeed finish ahead of the GSXR1000, at Road America, a high speed track. Steve Crevier also finished ahead of most of the literbikes; he also set a track class record (ASRA Superbike) at Road America, wich is a high speed track. The XBRR was able to outpace the literbikes there, at a high speed track. Get over it. I am not belittling Dave Estok's skills at all here, as I am sure they had a lot to do with it. However, you need to look at the quality of the rider that he beat on the GSXR/ZX10 etc rather than just the bike itself. We regularly beat a guy on a pukka ex-Superbike 998 Ducati in 2003 using a pretty stock XB9 racer but I wouldn't say our bike was beter or faster than his in any way, we just had a better rider. You also need to look at the spec of the bikes that he beat. How modified were they? Were they running stock suspension etc? The XB-RR has after all been built as a race bike from the ground up (another can of worms opened!), whereas most of the opposition that he beat are modified showroom street bikes. A 'proper' race bike will always have some advantage over a street modified bike, after all a good GP250 class rider will run rings around an awful lot of litre bikes at some tracks. (Message edited by trojan on August 17, 2006) | ||||||||||||||||||
| Blake |
Jim, You are funny. Try some simple math... 757 laps x 24/23 = 790 laps (for only 15 minutes pit time) or if you like... 757 laps / 23 hours = 33 laps/hr 757 + 33 = 790 laps (for only 15 minutes pit time) Average speed would have improved likewise from 115.7 KPH (71.9 MPH) to 120.7 KPH (75.0 MPH). Would the VR racer win even in that scenario? Answer: No, it would have improved three spots from 30th to 27th. FYI, the 26th place BMW spent 1:17:59 in the pits almost three more minutes than the VR. In round numbers, the winning bike did 891 x 2.279 mile (3.667 Km) laps at an average speed of 85 MPH (136 KPH). Matt, Without races outside of the Isles and Europe, I don't think the endurance series can compare in stature as a "world championship" to MotoGP or WSBK. It's all good though.  | ||||||||||||||||||
| Blake |
Matt, I don't know anything about the superbikes that Dave and Steve beat at Road America aka Elkhart Lake. I do know that the Ducati 999R that Rico Penzkofer beat at Daytona was a race prepped superbike machine. The point is that some folks like to throw out the "I can spend $10K on a Japan Inc repliracer and go faster" which obviously is pure silliness. I hope the Buell of Hanover team might get in on the endurance racing scene with their XBRR. Rico Pnezkofer has endurance racing experience over there does he not? | ||||||||||||||||||
| Court |
>>>>"I can spend $10K on a Japan Inc repliracer and go faster" which obviously is pure silliness. No. Renting a clown suit, hiding in the canned goods isle at the supermarket and scary the crap out of your wife ...that's "pure silliness". "I can spend $10K on a Japan Inc repliracer and go faster" is stupidity. I differentiate between the silly and stupid folks in life.  | ||||||||||||||||||
| Trojan |
Matt, Without races outside of the Isles and Europe, I don't think the endurance series can compare in stature as a "world championship" to MotoGP or WSBK. It's all good though. Isn't Suzuka a World Championship round for endurance racing? 2006 FIM World Endurance Championship Calendar April 17: Assen 500km - Netherlands April 22/23: Le Mans 24 Hours - France May 20: Albacete 8 Hours - Spain June 18: Zolder 6 Hours - Belgium July 30: Suzuka 8 Hours - Japan August 12/13: Oschersleben 24 Hours - Germany September 16/17: Bol d'Or 24 Hours (Magny Cours) - France Europe just happens to be the base for most of the world motorsport teams, be it MotoGP, WSB or even Formula One, so that is where most of the action takes place. Endurance racing has for a long time been the speciality of the French for some obscure reason. On the subject of World championship status, how come the Baseball World Series never features any teams from outside North America? As an interesting aside, if you think that the VRSC team are mad, take a look at this from Over Racing in Japan. This is powered by the 1670cc OHV Pushrod engine from the Yamaha Warrior/MT-01.   | ||||||||||||||||||
| Tork |
Yikes! Looks like that exhaust would cook your thigh. | ||||||||||||||||||
| Jima4media |
Blake, Oops, my bad on the math. I read mph average on another bulletin board and didn't check to see if it really was mph or kph as I usually do. You made a math error yourself though. 56 minutes difference in the pits divided by 1:40 per lap gives 40 laps. Added to 757 = 797 - just head of the BMW K1200S - liquid cooled inline-4 in 26th spot. Unless of course, they use metric minutes in Germany.  Jim (Message edited by jima4media on August 17, 2006) | ||||||||||||||||||
| Anonymous |
Trojan, The liter bikes Estok beat at Road America are the national championship teams on factory supported satellite teams. I'm sure that doesn't compare to real British rider teams, but it's the best competion we could stir up here in the colonies. | ||||||||||||||||||
| Trojan |
Anonymous, I wasn't suggesting that they were not good riders on good bikes. My point was that you always need to look beyond just the make and model of bike and consider a whole host of other factors before you start saying 'my bike beats your bike' based on limited information. If they were full on race bikes then good for you. However your statement that they are 'national championship teams on factory supported satellite teams' is in itself open to question. Are you saying that the big Japanese manufacturers field works teams in ASRA, the equivalent of UK club racing? They may be fighting for a national championship but factory supported? That obviously explains why they are all such household names. Factory support can mean absolutely anything from the supply of decals and a little discount on parts (Kawasaki Team Green) to full on works racers, so don't dress things up without stating the facts. As I said right at the beginning of my post, I'm not trying to belittle anyone's efforts, unlike some, and am genuinely glad when the XBRR does well. Just don't take a factory bike to a club race and tell us how it beat all the Jap 1000's. By the way, If you want comparison with real British rider teams then Buell UK should get off their corporate backsides, put their short arms in long pockets and do something over here instead of leaving it to the little guys. Why don't Warr's race their XB-RR in UK Sound of Thunder? That is after all the market that they are trying to sell bikes to. (Message edited by trojan on August 17, 2006) | ||||||||||||||||||
| Jens |
rofl By the way the Over Sporttourer was 05 at Assen.... Looks amazing, but cool look alone want bring you in front... Jens | ||||||||||||||||||
| José_quiñones |
From Jens
Here's the info on the 2003 event: Click HERE Here are the details from the 2004 event:
(Message edited by José_quiñones on August 17, 2006) | ||||||||||||||||||
| José_quiñones |
Dirk Scheffer rode both bikes, I would be interesting to hear his thoughts about both bikes, especially how he got a 1:39 lap out of that big heavy cruiser engine powered bike this year. (Message edited by José_quiñones on August 17, 2006) | ||||||||||||||||||
| Anonymous |
Real simple. The XB12R they raced was less than 105 RWHP, due to their valid concerns about crankshaft life. 40% more power counts even in a bad situation, but imagine what 40% more power would do at the right weight and with great handling. Probably the difference between contending for the podium and where they finished. A fun project, but certainly not competitive. | ||||||||||||||||||
| José_quiñones |
Then race against it, you have one more chance this year at Bol D'or in France. Or maybe the new Moto-St series here, both bikes are legal to race. (Message edited by José_quiñones on August 17, 2006) | ||||||||||||||||||
| Jens |
I am sure that the V-rod wan´t start at the Bol d´or. For what the Team shall do that? The demonstration that a mild tuned V-rod engine in a Bakkerchassis can qualify and can go over the distance is adduced and they have my greatest respect that they invest their money in this project and took as the first Team worldwide this challenge. What HD Bonn (the german Team) can win more than finishing at the german 24h race at Oschersleben? All competitors are (in lap time) unreachable for this bike. To finish a bit more or less on the end of the field is not the thrill they are looking for. The challenge was to do it first and they have done it first. Not more and not less. Jens | ||||||||||||||||||
| Blake |
Court, you are not helping my hyper-ultra-diplomacy training! There is veracity in your words and ignorance on the internet. A balance may be forming. Personally, I'd rather the ignorant trolls fall off the deep end. Matt, Baseball? No contest there, although it is called "National League Baseball", not World Baseball Championship, and Montreal and Toronto do have teams. Point taken with the "World Series" moniker; I agree. It really isn't a "World" event any more than the FIM endurance series is a world championship. I missed the Japan race. Okay, pseudo-world will pass. Bring 'em to Daytona and Oz also and you can have the "World" title with no complaint. ASRA/CCS are American National Series, not the pre-eminent ones; that honor belongs to the AMA series, but they are national series. We have full-on superbike spec machines even running in our regional club series. I get the feeling that you don't have much respect for the racing scene over here amigo. Our tracks often suck, (thankfully that is changing) but we have a bunch of very competitive racing organizations that have produced a bunch of very competitive world class riders. You want to win in even club racing over here, you better bring some mojo in the way of machine performance. JQ, That is just rude and arrogant. How would you like it if everytime you gave your opinion critical of Buell racing machines/performance/efforts you were told rudely to go race yourself and show them how it is done? Rude and arrogant ain't it? Certainly not considerate. Maybe you didn't mean it that way, but geez. | ||||||||||||||||||
| Blake |
Jim, You are going to have to leave the math to me compadré.  ![: ]](http://www.badweatherbikers.com/buell/clipart/proud.gif) Fifty-six (56) minutes divided by 1:40 is 33.6 not 40. See if you can find your mistake. Hint 1:40 is not the same as 1.40. | ||||||||||||||||||
| Court |
>>>I'd rather the ignorant trolls fall off the deep end. This is the medium and season they multiply in. . . some will need to be pushed off. Darwin was onto something. | ||||||||||||||||||
| Jens |
Blake, be fair. They race in UK against 700cc Bigbore Gorilla SV 650.... Jens | ||||||||||||||||||
| Blake |
And Jim, since we are trying to be fair and balanced and accurate here... how many minutes in the pits did that BMW consume?  How many minutes acrued in the pits did the 23rd place Yamaha R1 have, the one that completed 47 more laps than the VR? How about the 14th place R1 that finished 80 more laps with only eleven more minutes in the pits than the VR? Great effort by the VR team; really cool stuff, just like that Yammer Warrior/MT01 Japanes entry, very cool fun stuff. Sure is fun to see and talk about. | ||||||||||||||||||
| Trojan |
Blake, I have every respect for US Motorcycle sport, which is why I follow the results with such interest. You have some incredible young talent over there in the likes of Josh Herrin (spelling?) and Ben Spies etc, it is just a shame that they aren't given the opportunity to showcase on a world stage. In the same way we have some outstanding talent going to waste by spending too long in domestic championships over here. When I say that your ASRA or CCS level competition is the same as club level is not an insult. Most of our top level motorcycle sport is club level here, it is only the British Superbike Championship that is not. We also have full on superbikes running at club level, so I know the amount of mojo that it takes, believe me. However it must be said that whichever country you race in, just because you can afford a superbike doesn't mean that you are talented enough to make the best use of it. This was exactly my point to anony. You cannot crow about beating a Japanese litre bike with what is in effect a factory Buell unless you beat the equivalently supported and funded Jap bike. Beating a lesser rider on a fast bike just doesn't count. What I do very much object to is the way that Anony is very selective with information, and that anything that isn't a Buell is automatically rubbish. In fact according to him even some Buells are rubbish just because they wander from the party line! Yes we do race against the big bore SV700's in UK Thunderbikes, and they are extremely quick and very light. There is certainly no shame in getting beaten by one when we are using what is almost a stock XB12X motor. I seem to remember that Dave Estok and Dan Bilansky were both beaten at Road America and at Daytona last October by a stock bore SV650 ridden by Ed Keys (which measured 73bhp on the dyno following the Daytona race). Is Ed Keys a factory supported rider? No, he is just very quick, very talented, very experienced and very light. (Message edited by trojan on August 17, 2006) (Message edited by trojan on August 17, 2006) | ||||||||||||||||||
| Blake |
Ed's bike is/was not anything close to stock. Try putting yourself in anony's place with all the naysayers constantly harping their ignorance, claiming that a stock Japanese literbike will go better than an XBRR. That is just friggin ignorant. The shoe fits on the other foot just as well and that is where the rub is I think. Some folks want to deride the XBRR effort on one hand then hold up a 30th place miles and miles out of contention just for fun VR effort as some kind of in-your-face affront against Buell and their efforts and refusal to use the VRod engine in their sport bikes. For some reason even you seem to hold that the VR racer could be a competitive machine. I respect you and your opinion, but I sure don't agree with it. It's unfortunate when egos in conflict and gruff words on the internet cause allies to part ways. Was hoping you could get one of those 8-pot ZTL-2 setups and help regain harmony in the world of Buell enthusiasts racing. | ||||||||||||||||||
| Thepup |
The worst superbike time at Laguna was 1:32.289 the XBRR's best time was 1:30.591,hmm the XBRR factory effort would have came in 24th in the Superbike race,I guess the XBRR is faster than a stock jap. literbike,that is if you believe all 23 bikes that would have finished in front of them are factory teams,or highly modified. | ||||||||||||||||||
| M1combat |
Ummm... You think there were any "stock" bikes in that SuperBike race? WTH? I believe they were all highly modified... I don't know that, but why in the heck would you enter that race with a stock bike unless you were just looking for track time? | ||||||||||||||||||
| Thepup |
M1,I bet there were some that were close to stock. |
