| Author | Message | ||
     44mag2 |
My XB12X pings in hot weather. The timing is set per the factory spec. I run 91 octane (best I can get). I want to try an octane booster that is O2 sensor friendly. Any recommendations? Anything that I should worry about? | ||
| Rr_eater |
I used to keep a small pyrex bottle of booster in my minimal seat storage area for this same reason (remember you dont put a whole bottle in 3 gallons of gas). I eventually turned the timing back 2 degrees to solve the problem permanently, till the ECM was remapped and Micron installed. No pinging since, and it was triple digits for over three weeks, no problems. Bruce | ||
| Whodom |
You might also try running different brands of gas. Even though they all may be rated 91 octane, different brands may be blended differently and have different knock characteristics. You may find one your Uly likes better than others. Also see previous threads on multiple hose vs. single hose gas pumps. There is a small amount of mixing when you use single hose pumps (assuming the last guy bought 87 octane). If you have a habit of "topping off" your tank at these kinds of pumps, you can get a significant octane drop. | ||
| 44mag2 |
Where can I get info on remapping the ECM? Also, did you have good luck with a specific octane booster? | ||
| 44mag2 |
I always use Cheveron, simply because it is the local station with 3 hoses. | ||
| Whodom |
I always use Cheveron, simply because it is the local station with 3 hoses. IIRC, there is a federal standard for how much fuel mixing is allowed on single hose pumps, and it's not much (~0.25 gallons or so). Minimal effect if you buy ~4 gallons; significant effect if you buy ~1 gallon or less. Nothing wrong with Chevron, but it might be worth trying a tank or two of another brand of gas (or a couple) just to see if it makes a difference. | ||
| Diablobrian |
Al at American Sport Bike is probably the best guy to talk to about re-mapping with Direct Link. | ||
| Glitch |
The timing is set per the factory spec. Retard from factory setting between 1o to 3o. My timing was set to factory specs by two different Buell techs, still had some ping. Set it myself, to 3o, no ping. | ||
| Firebolteric_ma |
DAMN TECHS!!!!!  I ALSO AGREE WITH BRIAN>>>>>>>>> Al at American Sport Bike is probably the best guy to talk to about re-mapping with Direct Link. but be VERY CAREFUL when calling AL as two things always happen to me when calling over to his shop............... 1) you WILL hang up the phone with a wealth of knowledge and a big ol' grin from what you just learned! 2) I ALWAYS seem to buy something..  | ||
| 44mag2 |
Glitch, Where is your timing mark with respect to the middle of the timing window? Davo has set his ~ 7.5 degrees all the way past the right side of the timing window. At 3 degrees, is yours ~ 1/2 way between the center and right edge? That is where I am planning to set mine. | ||
| Diablobrian |
It is worth while to remember that adding an octane booster does not cure pinging, it is a band-aid type solution. | ||
| Buellfirebolt31 |
how do you retard the timing.....i must be a retard.... | ||
| Firemanjim |
Not sure on your bikes but turning the timing plate CCW retards the older tubers. And you can certainly get colder plugs than the stockers--you should see the ones in my racebike. Champion has a bunch of em.I also have an NGK # in toolbox at shop. (Message edited by firemanjim on August 09, 2006) | ||
| Davo |
This is not a factory procedure! This is how I stopped my pinging. 1. Drill out the two rivets on the timing cone cover. Be very careful not to scratch up the cover. A new/sharp 1/8” or 3/16” drill bit works well. After going through the rivet just walk the bit around the perimeter of the hole until the rivet head falls off. Do not extend the bit into the case more than about 3/8”- ½”. 2. Remove the outer timing cover. 3. Remove the two Phillips screws that hold the inner cover. 4. Remove the inner cover. 5. Very carefully index the CPS (cam position sensor) base plate with the inside of the timing cone so that you know where the timing was before you changed it. You can always go back to the factory setting. I used a very small dental style pick to scratch a mark on the outer perimeter of the CPS base and the same point on the inner cone of the cover. The index marks should be very fine because each millimeter is equivalent to 3 degrees of spark timing. My marks are so fine that I need to use a magnifying glass to make sure the index marks are correct. 6. Loosen the two CPS base plate fasteners just enough to free the CPS enough to rotate. You need a large flat head screw driver. I use a hollow ground screw driver that fits the slot exactly so the fasteners do not get marred up. 7. Rotate the CPS plate 1mm counter-clockwise to retard the timing 3 degrees. If you have a wire type spark plug gapping gauge the .040 gauge is exactly 3 degrees. Note- The inner cover diameter is 78 mm therefore the circumference is 245.0442 mm (diameter X pi (3.1416)). There is 720 crank degrees (two full turns 2 X 360) for every full rotation of the cam so divide 245.0442 by 720 and you get 0.3403 mm for each degree of the crank. So then 3 degrees is equal to 1.0210 mm. 8. Make sure there is no rivet debris in the cone area. 9. Tighten the flat head fastening screws (do not over tighten them just snug them down) and verify that the CPS has moved about 1 mm counter clockwise by looking at the space that now exists between the two index marks. 10. I recommend that you reinstall the inner cover plate with the Phillips screws, being careful not to over tighten them, and leave the outer cover off until you know the new setting is satisfactory. If you are concerned about dust and water then put a little electrical tape over the rivet holes. 10. After several test rides, re-install the outer cover with new HD rivets (you will need a rivet pop rivet gun and be VERY careful because when it pops you WILL scratch the cover if you do not put a cloth around the nose or the rivet gun) or you can remove the inner cover and tap the two rivet holes with a 10-32 tap and purchase two stainless steel hex head 10-32 bolts about 3/8” long. The tap and the bolts are cheaper than a bag of ten HD rivets. There are two holes that you do not use so practice the tap with them. Do not try to tap the holes with the inner cover in place. If you go this route then you can make timing adjustments on the road if you find a tank of bad gas or you can wind up your timing at the track when “go fast” fuel is available. Always give your AFV about 15 minutes of easy run time to readjust after you readjust. I would recommend checking your static timing just for kicks before the procedure. Just follow the manual and substitute the fuel pump turning on for the scanyliser going to 5 volts. Get some assistance with this it is very easy to scratch up your air box with your belt or even drop the bike if you attempt it alone. I use fifth gear and slowly push the bike. Be careful not to let debris get into the timing window and once again do not over tighten the timing plug. Its torque specification is 120 in-lbs which is only 10 ft-lbs. If you tighten the plug any more than that it will strip the case! Always use anti seize when steel threads into aluminum. Just a little film is necessary on the threads. Always start the threads and turn the plug in by hand. I use a 3/8” drive 3/8” allen head socket. I use ¼ adapters down to ¼ then to a 6” ¼” drive extension and then back up to a 3/8” drive into my wrench. This combination prevents the header and the case from getting scratched byh a fatter 3/8” drive extension. The ¼”drive up to 3/8”drive adapter is rare in most tool boxes but Craftsman has a small package of assorted adapters that contains this valuable tool. | ||
| Glitch |
At 3 degrees, is yours ~ 1/2 way between the center and right edge? Yep, right near there. Fixed it using Davo's not a factory procedure. Pretty simple. Take your time. Check it twice. Ride. Repeat if needed. Been in some pretty major heat since the adjustment. No ping. Been riding to work this week. 90o+ temps, 90+ humidity, 100o+ heat index. Atlanta's stop and go traffic nightmare. No ping. | ||
| 44mag2 |
Thanks for all the help guys ... I will retard so the mark is 1/2 way between the center and the right edge and report on the results. | ||
| Davo |
Good choice, to re-map fuel to solve pre-ignition is like a tourniquet around the neck for a nose bleed. If I re-mapped anything it would be the timing curve. I would put about 7-10 degrees of advance at a idle instead of zero and then take out about 7 degrees everywhere else. I know what the factory is trying to do with the timing. At this point I would prefer a catalyst in the pipe instead of the one they created in the head. (Message edited by davo on August 09, 2006) | ||
| 44mag2 |
So you are saying the the advanced timing is for emission control? | ||
| Davo |
Yes, I believe that the advanced timing gives the engine more time to complete combustion and if it is advanced a little further then it starts to heat up the combustion chamber and does a better job at decreasing C0 (Carbon monoxide) and HC ( hydro carbon) emissions. When the bike is at hot idle the timing is retarded to almost zero in order for the mixture to get burned up in a catalytic-like environment found down stream of the exhaust valve to the first tight bend in the header. In a vehicle that has an air pump and a catalyst there is fresh air trickled back through the intake manifold and directly into the exhaust to the catalyst and in this case timing is actually advanced to cool off the combustion chamber. An EGR valve is used to eliminate spark knock/pinging. |
