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The_new_guy
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 02, 2006 - 07:52 am: | 
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I agree with you Kootenay. I'm sure I will be reducing my chicken strips. Probably next year. I've only had my bike since May and haven't had a bike in 8 years. Never a serious cornering machine like this one. I did scrape my pipes on my old kz1000 regularly but that really isn't saying much. I really only have 1 good road by my house and in order to push myself on that road I'd have to go that much further over the speed limit. I hate tickets. All of my other local roads have too much sand and deer. Honestly, I probably shouldn't ride as fast as I do with the gear that I have. I will change that this winter. No excuse. I need to get to a track.
Gregg |
Irideabuell
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 02, 2006 - 07:55 am: |
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I have maybe a centimeter of strip on both sides of my rear tire. I only ride fast and aggressive on secondary roads here in the Orlando area that I have ridden many, many times with nearly no traffic on them to speak of. All turns are taken with caution at the speed limit as an intersection might have been clean the last time I was out there, but a construction vehicle (dump truck) may have lost some of it's load taking the same turn since then. We get a lot of rain this time of year too and that washes all sorts of crap into the road at intersections that doesn't always get removed.
Once I hit main roads (two lanes or more and/or residential) it's the posted speed limit for me and no horse play. |
Slaughter
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 02, 2006 - 08:45 am: |
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Kootenay DOES make good points but finding your "edge" on the street can be fatal with oncoming traffic or guardrails. If you don't go beyond the edge, you NEVER know where the edge really is.
I've come off at speeds ranging from barely 50 (turn 3 Willow) to well over 120 (Turn 8) and you would be AMAZED at how far the body can move when sliding or tumbling - if it's not stopped suddenly.
The track allows you to truly do it and define in your mind where the "edge" actually exists. Gradually increase throttle in the exit, pay attention to how much wider you come out of the turn each time. Slide the bike. Change lines, braking, shifting, body position. Do it with a skilled observer watching and critiquing you.
If you goof, you make a mental note and in a couple minutes, you're right at the exact same turn and make adjustments.
You can learn so much more so much sooner in a controlled environment AND you CAN truly KNOW your limits.
You can have eliminated your "chicken strips" from the tires but be closer to a loss of traction than a guy on the same bike using better body position and precise throttle and brake inputs. Until you push it hard enough to actually LOSE it, you cannot tell how close you really are. There are just so many factors at work.
Take it to the track. Half the price of a speeding ticket and not as bad as seeing the results of an XB wadded up and a guy life-flighted out after hitting the rail on our Sunday ride last weekend. Maybe I have this attitude because I live at the base of some of the best mountain twisties in the country and see a half dozen medevacs a weekend in the canyons here (sportbike traffic is pretty high here) - dunno.
Finding your limits is only good if you recognize them and KNOW them.
(still trying to find out who it was because if he lived, I want his bike parts as spares for my racebikes)
Apologies if it sounded like a rant - not really because Kootenay DID make a good point. Morning coffee starting to kick in now.
Ride well all!
(Message edited by slaughter on August 02, 2006) |
Glitch
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 02, 2006 - 08:53 am: |
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Steve, if that was a rant, rant on brother!
You can have eliminated your "chicken strips" from the tires but be closer to a loss of traction than a guy on the same bike using better body position and precise throttle and brake inputs.
Very well said. |
Court
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 02, 2006 - 09:23 am: |
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Steve:
Well said. I've tired of having friends die on motorcycles on the road.
It's become tiresome listening, after the fact, to folks opining about what a good rider they were, how they can't understand what could have happened and all the other absurd lines you and I have heard for so long.
The public highways are no place to speed. |
Slaughter
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 02, 2006 - 09:32 am: |
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Court, I agree (obviously)
After last weekend's ride, I was surprised at my reactions seeing that XB wadded up, realizing where the rider hit the rail and apparently launched into space, he may not have survived.
What I noticed in myself that I really didn't like to see was that I have stopped caring - that it really didn't bother me.
When my first friend was killed on a motorcycle, it bothered me for years and now over the years having lost a half dozen friends and acquaintances in flying and knowing more than a dozen riders who have died riding or racing, a part of me has grown cold.
When I got scuba rescue training, our joke was that the reason you got rescue training was so that you could get the guy's gear.
I find my reactions pretty similar looking at that wadded XB 2 days ago - not even ashamed for thinking "hmmmm, looks like the engine, rear wheel, swingarm, shock are still usable - think I'll find out what his insurance company is and make a couple calls." - and not "OH MY GAWD, HE MIGHT BE DEAD!" |
Spatten1
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 02, 2006 - 09:51 am: |
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"What I noticed in myself that I really didn't like to see was that I have stopped caring - that it really didn't bother me."
It is very weird to feel that way, knowing it is wrong. Just before I left SoCal five years ago, one of the Ortega guys died hitting a minivan head on. Another buddy hit a minivan doing a three-point turn on Angeles Crest in the middle of a curve. He was doing 80 when he hit.
My reaction has always been "it's part of the sport".
Now that I have kids, I'm thinking of things a bit differently, taking death and injury more personally. I ride on the street less and worry more. I even cringe when I see people riding without decent gear or helmets, especially when they drag their feet half a block, indicating that they have no idea what they are doing.
When Sammigs (former board participant) totalled his XB last year, due to a truck coming at him on the wrong side of the double yellows, it really affected me. Our riding styles are very similar and I relate to him well. That is why I prefer the track now. I still have no fear of hanging it out on the track, the the street has really started to scare me a lot. |
Timxb9s
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 02, 2006 - 09:54 am: |
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Hey Josh,
Nice peg scrape'n on the FJR.
I never had the nerve to lean mine that far.
Tim |
Court
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 02, 2006 - 10:09 am: |
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Wow....I could go on and on about where I got my first epiphany, how things have changed and so forth.
Suffice to say, I'd left a race track one day...full of piss and vinagar....hit a cloverleaf coming off the KTA West Lawrence exit...set the turn up and went in hot.
As I was executing a perfect corner, I'm looking in front of me. I'd done this an hour ago at HPT and mentally asked "what'd happen if I lost traction right now?".
The answer in turn 3 at Heartland Park was "Nothing....I'd just slide through that field of grass".
The answer on the cloverleaf involved light poles, twisted shards of ripped Armco barrier and an 8" curb.
I occured to me that I have control of MANY less factors on the road. On a race track my skill (back when I had some) mattered...on the public roads you gotta depend on luck and luck alone. Anyone who thinks riding fast on public highways invovles skill is summarily full of crap.
The pity is that I have to listen to a long bullshit datribe about what a good person these folks were (generally true) and how good of a rider they were (varies) and how carefully they were riding (alwasy bullshit)
In virtually every case I know of (and I'm sure there are many others) the NICE, good rider was doing something incredibly stupid when they met their death.
You do not end up in the bumper of a truck or piercing a travel trailer by "riding within your limits".
Each person will make their own choices. I've made mine based on doing a number of stupid things and seeing even more done.
Just my personal choice in my advancing years......plus I have a really neat guitar on order I want to be here to recieve when it's done.
 |
Pwnzor
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 02, 2006 - 10:27 am: |
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"Anyone who thinks riding fast on public highways invovles skill is summarily full of crap."
Hear, hear! Every time you leave the driveway its a crap-shoot.
(Message edited by pwnzor on August 02, 2006) |
Court
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 02, 2006 - 10:43 am: |
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>>>>Every time you leave the driveway its a crap-shoot.
It is.
Rolling through a windy turn on a New Jersey highway at 80MPH is like trying to roll a 7 with one die. |
Kootenay
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 02, 2006 - 12:22 pm: |
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Kootenay DOES make good points but finding your "edge" on the street can be fatal with oncoming traffic or guardrails. If you don't go beyond the edge, you NEVER know where the edge really is.
Well said, and I agree. I also agree about getting some track time.
But I have to admit, my location and finances preclude that at this point, although I am seriously jonesing for a day at the track. If I lived in a major urban center, I'd be at the track (quite possibly only at the track, since riding in traffic scares me far more than deer or gravel). As it is, although my tires are scrubbed to the edges, I don't ride beyond my "comfort level," and I know there are guys who are considerably faster than I am. I understand there are dangers, but I minimize them by doing things like keeping fully within my lane at all times, keeping a close watch out for wildlife, and keeping my speed to a reasonable level (roads around here are tight enough in many places that you don't have to be speeding to lean hard) Oh yeah, and wearing full gear on every ride...
And you'll also never see me posting about how fast I've gone, or how many wheelies I've pulled...I don't do that stuff, hell I'm even one of the few (it would seem) here on Badweb to have a dead-stock, unobtrusive bike. I do, however, believe all riders should learn how to corner their machines! (whether they do on a regular basis or not and whether they ride on the street or the track) |
Spatten1
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 02, 2006 - 12:36 pm: |
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Kootenay,
I used to ride the way you do. I probabaly still would if I did not move to an urban area. Riding is horrible where I live.
I'm moving to Golden, CO in three weeks and hope to get back to the traffic free mountain riding that I enjoyed so much in the past. |
Josh_
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 02, 2006 - 01:43 pm: |
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Note one pic above was taken at RoadAmerica, the other was taken immediately after RA.
body positioning is everything but you can easily scrub the edges down in a parking lot at 20MPH. |
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