| Author | Message | ||
     Redstar11 |
I just won an auction for a Buell R tail section and I am beginning to suspect that I have been a victim of shill bidding. Can some of you internet slueths help me investigate this? I am bidder IanDeutsch, and I had bid 103 as my top offer. The bidding stopped at 102.50, with bids being placed by a suspect bidder. Can anybody offer any insight? Here is the Ebay link. http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1,1&item=11000927534 6&ih=001&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWN%3AIT | ||
| Skyguy |
Happens all the time. No idea if it happened to you, just know that it does happen. | ||
| Pwnzor |
This sure looks odd to me: iandeutsch ( 100) US $102.50 Jul-27-06 12:06:22 PDT ismael973 ( 4 ) US $100.00 Jul-27-06 18:32:56 PDT ismael973 ( 4 ) US $90.00 Jul-27-06 18:32:46 PDT ismael973 ( 4 ) US $85.00 Jul-27-06 18:32:36 PDT ismael973 ( 4 ) US $80.00 Jul-27-06 18:32:29 PDT ismael973 ( 4 ) US $70.00 Jul-27-06 18:32:21 PDT ismael973 ( 4 ) US $60.00 Jul-27-06 18:32:13 PDT ismael973 ( 4 ) US $50.00 Jul-27-06 18:32:04 PDT ismael973 seems to come in HOURS after you, and pushed up the price....? Bidding every few seconds in $10 increments? | ||
| Lorazepam |
Whoever he is, he doesnt have much activity for the time he has been on ebay. If you had an automatic bid, he probably bid up to where he wanted to go and then stopped. Bummer that He Took you up that far in the bidding. | ||
| Hergy916 |
That's tough to say. I've been in that position myself as a bidder on ebay where I've waited until the last minute or two then ended up bidding multiple times very quickly in an attempt to win the auction. It would seem that if you were comfortable paying the $103 that you placed as your high bid, then you probably came out o.k. That's one thing I have definitely learned with ebay is not to place high bids I'm not going to be o.k. with paying if that situation were to happen to me. (which it has.) This was a pretty common thing to have happen when I was looking for parts for my 916. Not going to say that shill bidding wasn't possible, but I would think unlikely. | ||
| Redstar11 |
I didn't have a choice in the way I was going to bid. I would have been at work when the auction ended, and I needed a new tail section. I'm not really bummed about the price, just it seems like he is shill bidding. I have definitely put stuff up on Ebay, and let the auction go for far less than I thought the item was worth. Thats just a part of what makes auctions great. | ||
| Xring |
Even if it was shill bidding, he had no way of knowing how much your max bid was. More likely he bid $100 even, saw he was still outbid, and bid $2.50 more...I always bid odd amounts like that just in case I can beat out somebody that bid an even amount. Still, I'm convinced that there is a LOT of shill bidding going on at Ebay. There is nothing to do about it but bid what you can pay, and let it go if you get beat. Good luck, Bill | ||
| 650 |
After he bid 100, eBay automatically bids for you up to your max. At 100 bucks the next minimum bid is 2.50, hence 102.50. | ||
| Bumblebee |
Maybe not. The seller (who has everything to shill for (and everything to loose)) doesn’t know the maximum bid you have tendered. So if the seller wanted to shill up the price it would be a real crapshoot, because if he were to win the auction he would still have the item and need to pay eBay for their services. The person bidding against you doesn’t have much experience (by his score) and may not know how eBay proxy bidding works. | ||
| Percyco |
Shill or not.....looks like you got a good deal. Congrats See if the bidder has bid on this sellers other items. | ||
| Adamcooney |
The seller is "mcworx". Hence he owns the company "motorcycle works" which does a ton of buell/mutant conversions better known as the Streetfighter frame. I HIGHLY doubt he would do that. I'm a big eBay guy myself, what times were all these placed at? I mean if your high bid was 103 dollars, and you bid early on, it would only show up as the next bid for lets just say $20 to make it even. Then lets say theres 1 minute left in the auction, somebody could bid at $10 increments all the way up to $100 then stop and it will just show "you have been outbid by another bidder". Plus no offense, but why are you complaining if that was your highest proximity bid and it didn't go above that then really you have nothing to complain over. I almost always wait until the last 15 seconds in an auction to bid so it doesn't go into a bidding war. Unless I really can't because of work or something then I'll place a bid before then of not too much higher than the bid it was already at unless I know it's something I've got my heart set on winning. | ||
| Ride365 |
No use worryin bout it now, guy probably just got sick of bidding for something he wanted when he kept seeing that he was outbid by you every few seconds... It happens | ||
| Cochise |
Pwnzor: If a person bids say, $250, and the top is only $25.00, every time somebody bids, it will show up, but the only time the $250 guy shows up is when the "small potato" guy stops bidding | ||
| Pwnzor |
But look at the order the bids are in, and the times on them. His bid is 6 hours older???? I'm confused as can be looking at the bids and the times next to them. | ||
| Cochise |
Our friend bid in the early afternoon for the high amount, and the other guy kept bidding to win, but time ran out on him. | ||
| Pwnzor |
ohhhh been a while since i ebayed... | ||
| Teddagreek |
Sniper Guilty.. Shill bidding is bunk.. That's what reserve is for..Cheap Bastards | ||
| Johnnylunchbox |
Doesn't seem like anything funny at all. I snipe the crap out of stuff all the time. Free market capitalism i tell you. Survival of the fittest (ie broadband). It looks like he wasn't prepared to pay anythign over $100, so he bailed. Smart ebaying actually. | ||
| Jackbequick |
Ian, You had a proxy bid of an unknown amount pending. The became evident when the person submitted their first bid. The bidder then commenced to try to find out what your proxy was and top it. He gave up eventually, I guess when he reached the limit of what he wanted to spend. Shill bidding is when a friend or acquaintance of the seller bids just to run the price up, not intending to be high at the end. I don't think this guy was a shill because he has several prior buys on eBay and has a feedback profile that looks legitimate. Sometimes you can spot shills by them being new to eBay and having no feedback or bogus feedbacks. And usually they bid one or maybe a few auctions and then never bid again. It is very hard to spot shill bidders. It is very dangerous to sellers to use it or let it happen, people are too likely to spot it. I don't think as much shill bidding takes place on eBay as some people think. Jack | ||
| Tank_bueller |
I think he would have won the auction, he just ran out of time. Late bidder here too! Tank | ||
| Buellgirlie |
he he. i won a tail section earlier this week, so i stopped bidding on this one. i'm the $12 bid at the bottom  if it hit your max, then its yours fair and square. i've done similar, bid, see the "outbid" notice, bid again, etc etc etc til i wasnt interested. its possible thats what the guy did. no way to prove otherwise anyway. i was out at 12 bux! glad you got the part you needed, D | ||
| Captainxb |
I agree with the last few posts here. It all comes down to setting your highest price and sticking to it. Don't get caught up in a bidding war, it will run away from you. Even if you are up against snipers (totally legit by the way) set your price and then walk away. You won't curse yourself for paying too much, and if you didn't win it, well you saved yourself some money! I use sniping software for most of my eBay bidding. This is mostly for convenience, as I don't have to be glued to the computer for every auction, and buggered if I'll ever again get up at 3am only to lose in a bidding war!! But even still, I don't win many auctions because my maximum bid was too low. I just look for the next bargain. | ||
| Redstar11 |
Like I said, I'm not worrying about the price. I just thought it was strange that the bidding went the absolute minimum underneath my top bid. I mean seriously, who places 5-10 dollar bids, then decides that his max bid is going to be 102.50? I have seen before people shill bid, find that they go over the real bidders max, then withdraw the bid. At any rate, no worries about the price I'm going to pay, infact I paypaled the second I got home. I just hate people trying to take advantage of what Ebay offers. | ||
| Captainxb |
. . . that the bidding went the absolute minimum underneath my top bid. Actually, his maximum bid was $100, and as yours was $103, you won by the next increment up, which was $2.50. . . . then decides that his max bid is going to be 102.50? Actually, $100. Seems this was his final 'barrier', or he ran out of time, (which looks more likely). | ||
| Cochise |
Several times I have bid a dollar or two then get all worried and throw way too much into it. I "won" a piece of siht '67 Chevelle SS for $3000, because I placed a high bid the first day and then it died at $3000 by a guy who bid at a few seconds after I bid mine, I was first, so I won. | ||
| Redstar11 |
Oh ok, I get it now. I didn't realize the proxy was bidding up by increments of $2.50. | ||
| Johnnylunchbox |
People like round numbers in even increments ie 50-100-150... so if you prepare to set your own personal maximum on what you are willing to pay, add 7 dollars to it 107 157... Aside from 7 being a lucky number , it just might beat the folks who think in round numbers only. Hope that makes sense | ||
| Jackbequick |
I have won items by a few pennies when the bid increments were much higher than that. That can happen if I submit a proxy bid for an amount like $103.52 and someone later submits a bid for $103.50. Because my bid was an earlier bid, it will use all of it even if it is less than the normal increment. If no one else bids again, I win by two cents. Using a robot or snipe bidding program saves you a lot of time and money too. I bought a GPS antenna for one penney (and $10.00 for shipping) by setting my robot to bid in the last few seconds. No one else bid so I got it for that. You don't have to remember to log on and bid, the robot does it all for you. And it keeps you from getting wrapped up in those stupid (for buyers, good for sellers) bid/counter bid wars. My bidding service costs me about $30 a year, it pays for itself over time. Jack | ||
| Eexb |
"Sniper" software or services are the only way to go - otherwise you promote Ebay "newbies" uneducated bidding practices. Like their placing of 8-10 bids in a few minutes until they become the high bidder. For some reason many get excited over seeing their "name in lights", even if the auction still has 6 days left to go !!! Why bidders don't wait till near the end of an auction to bid is beyond me - placing an early bid only serves to boost the price of an item. On the other hand, when you're selling, you love it when these guys come and bid like fools !!! | ||
| Firefightergarcia |
I was watching that auction but once it got to $100 I gave up....Small world..I always proxy bid to the highest I'm willing to pay for whatever I'm buying. | ||
| Jackbequick |
That is a good start Will, but when you have a robot bidder do it with 5 seconds left before closing, it really stifles the reactive bidders. And my bidding robot has never once failed to bid in time if my intended bid was more than the current bid. If the running bidding goes over the amount I've to him to bid, he sends me an email telling me that. I can re-evaluate my stand on "the most I am willing to pay" but I don't bother usually Here is a little known danger in submitting proxy bids through eBay. Say that an auction has a reserve price of $300.00 and an opening bid of $1.00. You don't know the reserve price but decide that the item is worth $325 to you so you bid that as a proxy and the auction says Current Bid: $1.00 and the clock is ticking. Even if not one single other bid is submitted, at closing the eBay system will elevate the current bid to $300 and for $300 you will have won an item that only drew a single, One Dollar, bid. eBay is very secretive about this, but defends it by saying that you indicated a willingness to pay that amount with your bid. I've argued with that, I indicated a willingness to bid up to $325 if other bidders take me to that amount, but eBay will not change the rule on that. Their decision is always the one that gives them the most revenue. Imagine if you will, an auction where at the end of the auction the auctioneer can go through the pockets of the high bidder and take an amount of money that was previously unstated and unknown to the bidder. There are several ways that a proxy bid that files to meet a reserve could be handled in a manner that is fair to both bidder and seller, but none of those methods would guarantee eBay a quick fast profit. I've been selling and buying on eBay since 1997, I am an enemy of eBay for life and have told them so. They don't care. Jack |
