| Author | Message | ||
     Darkducati |
"Talk about an idiotic statement.Name one thing the XBRR has in common with a street Buell." The frame(from the Uly/Ss), the swingarm(modified for chain use), the front rotor, the wheels(cast in Mag instead of Alum.), pegs, frame geometry of the front end, etc. The list goes on. Know your s$#t before you run your mouth. | ||
| Dbird29 |
"I never said the others were the same,but they are closer to stock that the Buells." Toke, Toke, Pass Don't break the rotation! | ||
| Darkducati |
Besides, if they are closer to stock than the Buells, where did the money go? Teams have admitted they are spending nearly $350K per bike. $350K!!!! You would HAVE to change everything to spend that kind of money. (Message edited by darkducati on July 23, 2006) | ||
| M1combat |
I dare anyone to go spend $30K on an IL4 and place 8th in the AMA at Laguna. Just for the record... The wheels on the XBRR that Jeremy was using were 16.5", so they aren't the same. Also, Jeremy has added some trail to his geometry (I think he got there by adding a little rake, but I'm not sure). | ||
| Darkducati |
The original wheels were the same size. I thought about the 16.5 sizes after I posted. I would guess the front rotor is different now too, but I'm not sure. | ||
| Thepup |
Dark,it is not a ULY/SS frame.Lets name the Differences,different engine,no belt drive,frame is different,adding different stampings makes it different,just to name a few.Once again any post not worshipping Buell is attacked.One other thing,not all the other FX bikes are being supported bu the factory,so all of them don't cost $350K,most are true privateers,unlike the Buell. | ||
| Mutation_racer |
it was great to see the fast engineering they did on the wheels not become a reason they didnt finish the race and work well too! | ||
| M1combat |
LOL... The frame is the same bro... They only used the Uly side rails for Daytona to increase fuel capacity (it's allowed by the rules as I recall, but only for Daytona). Drive train differences are negligible... The street bikes use 520 chains as I recall and the race bikes use 530... I'm quite certain they aren't using stock sprockets either. They also use different swing arms. You think a stock IL4 600 will rev out as high as the FX bikes? Maybe for a couple seconds  . Their engines are completely rebuilt with unobtainium parts (I'm talking the factory bikes here, keeping it apples to apples for the Laguna race). They use high performance cooling systems (like an aluminum pipe on the intake side). I seriously doubt that their brakes are stock. It's un-likely that they use a stock clutch etc, etc, etc... It's FX. Formula "extreme". All bikes are allowed "extreme" modification. This argument is pointless. The fact is that the XBRR made an eighth place finish. Like it or lump it  . None of the bikes are anywhere near "stock". If they were they would be in superstock... There's a whole class for that and it's not FX. Just to name a few eh? You made the engine argument... It's still a 45 degree, pushrod, 2-valve, air/oil cooled engine. It's about as modified from an XB12R engine as the IL4 bikes are. You think they use the same bore/stroke on the IL4's? I doubt it. You think they use the same fuel system? Not likely. Hey guess what? EIGHTH PLACE!!!! HA! Were there any privateer bikes in front of Jeremy? Were there any factory bikes behind him? Were there any bikes in front of him that cost less? HA! | ||
| Hattori_hanzo |
Talk about an idiotic statement.Name one thing the XBRR has in common with a street Buell. Looks like you were the first to lob an attack. But I'm not flaming ya.. I congratulate Buell on the first top ten finish for the XBRR. There was a lot of good that came out of today, but it's still not ready for primetime. Funny thing is that it seems like people don't remember that 2 years ago Mike Ciccotto almost put a modified XB9R on the podium with a 4th place finish. I still believe the XBRR has a long way to go before it'll get any respect from the IL4 guys... | ||
| M1combat |
How many times have each of the riders that were in front of Jeremy run that track? Nicky Hayden got his first GP win on a track that he had run more than the rest of the field... HMMMM... EIGHTH PLACE BEEEEOOOOTCH!!!! | ||
| M1combat |
"There was a lot of good that came out of today, but it's still not ready for primetime." Now Brian... The XBRR made an eighth place finish in every conceivable sense of the term primetime. It was even televised just after a Moto-GP race. I'm not sure how you can get more primetime than that. Maybe you just meant "podium" as "primetime" . Anyway... Just giving you crap . | ||
| Thepup |
Hattori,I believe you perhaps didn't see his post first,he basically said anyone questioning Buell is an idiot .I think Buell did real good today,but lets get real,they were in last place when compared to other factory supported teams,and behind a Suzuki that I don't believe is factory supported,I could be wrong about that though. | ||
| M1combat |
"I believe you perhaps didn't see his post first,he basically said anyone questioning Buell is an idiot ." Not quite... He said... "The funny thing is that it has more in common with the street bike than the competition has in common with their street bikes. It takes more intelligence to see similarity than difference, and the world is full of idiots." To which you replied... "Talk about an idiotic statement." Sounds like you made the first personal attack... | ||
| Thepup |
I didn't say he was an idiot,I said he made an idiotic statement,big difference. | ||
| Darkducati |
Which part of my statement was idiotic? The part about the bike or the world being full of idiots? I could probably prove either one if I wanted to spend enough time doing it. | ||
| Rocketsprink |
Face it. The Buell will never get everyone's respect. But ya know what? Who frickin' cares. There will always, and I mean always be haters. It's just human nature. Lot's of people here put down Inline 4's. I have no problem with them. Nice bikes. But due to the fact there are about a Trillion of them around, and the fact that I don't want to ride what everyone and their Brother are riding, I went with Buell. Buell did great yesterday. Period. Don't take it to heart from the basher's. Just voicing their opinions. Just like us. Let the results speak for themselves. Buell will hopefully have their day. But if it never comes, I'll still enjoy my bike. I don't need a high dollar Race Machine ridden by a professional to make me like my bike anymore than I do. Don't have to defend it to any one that puts it or me down either. Like I said, there will always be someone out there with a pissy attitude. | ||
| Rocketman |
I don't wish to be involved in this argument. I consider it US territory, lol. That said, I don't understand why some of these factory supported Japanese 600cc bikes running the US series have this unobtanium stuff inside their engines, making them rev higher, and presumably produce more power. Don't they run close to European and Japanese Super Stock rules, which are meant to keep the costs of racing in this class down? Rocket | ||
| Thepup |
"Just to name a few eh? You made the engine argument... It's still a 45 degree, pushrod, 2-valve, air/oil cooled engine. It's about as modified from an XB12R engine as the IL4 bikes are. You think they use the same bore/stroke on the IL4's? I doubt it. You think they use the same fuel system? Not likely." M1,you make it so easy.A 600 has to use stock cases,cylinders,and heads,same engine configuration and stroke as OEM.They have to use the stock crankshaft.Valve diameter must remain stock.Valves must be made of same basic material as OEM.Valves must remain in same location and angle.Cam lift can be no higher than stock.Stock throttle body sub-assemblies must be utilized.Stock airboxes are required.I could go on,but I am sure you get the point M1. | ||
| Thepup |
Dark,the part about the bike.If you would read the rules,you would see how wrong you are. | ||
| Court |
The sand is slowly slipping away under these folks feet. In 1999 they shared "inside information" that Buell would be history in 6 months. Later they decried how dated the tube frame bikes were and were "unavailable for comment" when Buell sat the industry on it's ass with the XB, introducing a handful of things others had always said were a "great idea" but couldn't get to market. Next comes the XBRR and we're told it's history after the 4 DNF's at Daytona. Lo and behold the Elves work long hours, design parts and continue to hone the bike as we're being told...."well, it'll never be in the Top 10". Saturday it finishes 8th at Laguna Seca and the engined not cooled down before the "non-factory line" is being realigned. I'm here for nothing more than fun...I'll likely always be happy. | ||
| Brucelee |
"I still believe the XBRR has a long way to go before it'll get any respect from the IL4 guys..." You are likely right on this but why would we care?  | ||
| Eexb |
In spite of Speed's lack of coverage of the XBRR, in spite of the (few ANNOYING) naysayers on this board, and in spite of all the negative magazine coverage of XBs, the Buell team's accomplishments this weekend were EXCELLENT !!! You (naysayers) can ignore the BIG $$$ spent by the Japs, you can make SILLY arguments about the XBRR but that will NOT change the fact that a low budget effort (compared to the big 4) is yielding tremendous results over a very short period. They thing that REALLY bothers me is why any Buell owner would come here and dump all over the XBRR program, XBs in general and whatever else you don't like about Buells. Take it to another board where you can ally yourself with some Buell haters !!! EE | ||
| M1combat |
Looked through the rules... What about con-rods? Pistons? cylinder sleeves? Yeah... the heads have to be the "stock heads" but it doesn't say you can't work them... It's a moot point though Pup... The Japanese factory teams spend more on an IL4600 than Buell does. A lot more. Why can't you just accept the fact that Buell did well? You understand very little about engines and racing. (Message edited by m1combat on July 24, 2006) | ||
| Scott_in_nh |
I looked, and those are some of the rules for 600cc I4's in FX. What hasn't changed is that the Japanese manufacturers design race bikes that are homologated for production based racing classes by cheapening enough of the components to make an affordable streetbike. Being large and popular enough to build and sell untold thousands worldwide certainly helps them keep the price down as does the ability to sell them for low margin. Great plan, they are to be commended and no one can argue that they produce some awesome machines even if said machines are not for you (or me) personally. Obviously the rules were written so that some may try to race bikes that do not fit the above description. I think that is a great idea, if you don't, well there are plenty of classes that you will not see a large displacement Buell in anytime soon, if ever. I suggest you watch and talk about those races while slapping yourselves on the back when your brand wins! I enjoyed watching the race and applaud the effort and the 8th place finish- Nice going! | ||
| Jens |
The Öhlins Fg forklegs of the japanese factorybikes cost half the price of the complete Buell XBRR productionracer. Without triples, brakes etc..... Jens | ||
| Diablobrian |
How can that be Jens? You can buy a bike just like those in the showroom for <$9k according to those attacking the Buell as not being "stock"  | ||
| Firemanjim |
I saw the 16.5 wheels in the Warrs pits and it has the ZTL rotor just like the 17's.Could not have told it from any other Buell XB wheel unless you looked at the tire sidewall for the size.The slipper clutch looked pretty slick too. Saw it while they were servicing the bikes. | ||
| Revperf |
Posted this over on Sacborg - Wonder how it will go over? Been watchin' the thread. Aaaight, no kool-aid, just facts regarding +'s and -'s: + - Teams were having initial issues with exhaust system durability during testing at Daytona and elsewhere - Fact - Probably the roughest racing surface to date that the bike has been on - No exhaust issues. + - Teams were having charging/electrical system issues at prior events - Fact - By FAR the most extreme test to date with regards to temp and harmonics from the racing surface - No electrical/charging system issues. + - Mucho question marks regarding durability/viability of the air cooled powerplant in extreme environments - Fact - Spencer/Sheheen (poor commentary not withstanding) have been to Laguna since the late 70's and stated that they had never seen it that hot - No durability issues and/or subsequent heat related power loss given that the bike went forward throughout the race rather than initially moving forward and then losing ground. + - ZTL Setup - Again, extremely rough surface and a racing surface resembling the surface of the sun - Fact - Brake fade didn't appear to be an issue as the McWilliams bike didn't go backwards as the race went on. + - Top ten finish. Given from whence they came. This is a plus in my book. Purely an opine though. (-) - Didn't win. This is probably perspective on the part of armchair crew chiefs. Haven't seen any interviews with the Warr's chief. Nowwwww.....flame away! Revperf | ||
| Xb9 |
Firemanjim, did you get a picture of that slipper clutch? Wonder if it's available. I need one. Jen's and Diablobrian, let me join you | ||
| Bads1 |
If the Graves bikes or the Erion bike are so based on the factory bike why is that those bikes are usually destroyed at the seasons end. Thats to assure that the comp doesn't build or see what they have done to mimick it. Gotta staY at the top right!!!!lol |
