| Author | Message | ||
     Darthane |
LOL...nothing to be jealous about...I won't even sit on the Katana and my friend (the owner, he moved to Palo Alto to pursue his doctorate at Stanford) is looking to sell it and buy a new bike in Cali. We'll see if I can steer him into a new XB. Might be a little pricey, though he seems willing to put 9-10K in on a new bike. | ||
| Blake |
"How in the world could you get un-even heating/cooling on the rear head? " Any number of reasons Glitch. Fluid mechanics coupled with heat transfer comprises a physical scenario that is far removed from an intuitive science. I'd never pretend to know one way or the other. I can certainly imagine however how additional cooling imposed upon an engine could be problematic, especially in cooler ambient conditions. Sonny, If your fan runs constantly, there is something amiss with your motorcycle either causing it to run too hot or the temp sensor is faulty. Suggest strongly that you have it expertly diagnosed asap. (Message edited by Blake on July 10, 2006) | ||
| Glitch |
Still it would have to be something more drastic than an air scoop to cause any "cool" or "hot" spots. You've GOT to take a look to understand. The engine itself has been modified little to live IN the frame, longer cooling fins, and the oil cooler, but that's it. The frame has been modified to get air in, like the fan, and the left side scoop. The addition of air to an air cooled engine can't be bad. The same with adding a larger oil cooler. It's not going to hurt anything. The only thing *I* can see changing, is a possibly cooler running engine. especially in cooler ambient conditions. It may cause the engine to take longer to warm up in the winter, but once it's warm it's only getting warmer. "How in the world could you get un-even heating/cooling on the rear head? " Now you must not leave out where that head lives. This is no ordinary home for an air cooled engine. | ||
| Glitch |
If your fan runs constantly, there is something amiss with your motorcycle either causing it to run too hot or the temp sensor is faulty. Or the engine hasn't finished breaking in. How many miles you got on that bike? | ||
| Sonny |
Glitch, 5K on the bike, running syn-3. I've had the bike into the dealer for this. Engine and fan are 'normal'. | ||
| Darthane |
Well past the accepted 'break-in' mileage and you're already running synthetics...I'm going to have to agree with Blake on this one (as much as it pains me). Have your exhaust checked to make sure the bike is running a proper mixture and isn't too lean. Get someone who knows what they're doing to look at the actual engine temps versus what the CHT sensor is reporting. That thing is just a resistance-based sensor, if I recall correctly, so something as simple as a single strand of wire poking through the insulation can cause it to misread by a wide margin. San Diego isn't THAT warm of a climate. (Message edited by darthane on July 10, 2006) | ||
| Pwnzor |
Sonny, mine ran "all the time" also when I first got it. After about 1500-2000 miles it got much less frequent and on the 2nd oil change I went synthetic, which reduced it further. It never comes on now. If you haven't been to American Sport Bike yet, do so asap. Al's shop is not far from you, and his advice is among the very best. | ||
| Firebolteric_ma |
AL is the man!  | ||
| Blake |
"The addition of air to an air cooled engine can't be bad." It certainly can be. | ||
| Gowindward |
I had a number of times over last winter when ice would build up in the throttle body and not allow the butterfly to open completely. The throttle would only open enough to creep up on 3000 rpm. I would not want more air scooped into that area during the winter. Has anyone had their bike overheat? As in go into skip fire mode and check engine light flash? | ||
| Aeholton |
If your fan runs constantly, there is something amiss with your motorcycle either causing it to run too hot or the temp sensor is faulty. Or the engine hasn't finished breaking in. How many miles you got on that bike? All I know is once the fan kicks on it's on for the duration. It does not turn off until after the engine is shut down and it continues running for a couple of minutes. My fan has never turned off after coming on with the engine running (except when the fan died). I have 14,000 miles now and yes, I run synthetic oil. Granted, I live in a climate that sees 80+ degree weather for 10-11 months a year. I don't think I will be causing uneven cooling or too cool an operating temperature running with a right side scoop here in FL. | ||
| Glitch |
"The addition of air to an air cooled engine can't be bad." Let me clarify. The addition a right side scoop to our air cooled engine living inside close quarters can't be bad, in normal to hot conditions. It certainly can be. Please elaborate. Has anyone had their bike overheat? Yes, it was 103o and I was stuck in traffic. The bike barely limped off to the emergency lane. After I got it home I started the bike, and all was good. I took it in and the service tech said it over heated. I changed the oil and now I try to stay out of traffic when it's hotter than 95o. | ||
| Brucelee |
If Blake is right, I guess we can't ride our bikes in winter, too cold for those cylinders. The will freeze up! Hats off to MJ of American Sport Bike for that angle. | ||
| Brucelee |
"I would not want more air scooped into that area during the winter" In winter, take it off or stuff it up! Left side too (back of the air intake that is! | ||
| Glitch |
I had to cover my Bandit's oil cooler in the winter time. It was easy. I'm thinking of going with a larger capacity oil cooler, and see how that goes. I can get them cheaper than the scoop from the motorcycle bone yard. | ||
| Gowindward |
For stop and go traffic I think a larger capacity oil cooler is the was to go. You get the additional area for heat exchange plus some increase in oil volume. | ||
| Az_m2 |
If your fan runs constantly, there is something amiss with your motorcycle either causing it to run too hot or the temp sensor is faulty. Suggest strongly that you have it expertly diagnosed asap. My fan runs constantly, and always has, even when the outside temp is in the 30s and 40s. The expert Buell technicians at my dealership checked it out and according to them, everything is perfectly normal  I've read several folks with fans that run constantly. I agree with you Blake, it sure seems like it would be a problem. | ||
| Lenb |
My 2 cents worth: It's a simple fact that aircooled engines cannot run at an optimum temperature all of the time. On a hot day in stop start traffic they will run too hot; on a cold rainy day at speed they will run too cold. My experience off-road riding with air cooled bikes (Honda XRs) is that they ran worse when ridden in gnarly terrain on a hot day and better when ridden in the rain on a cold day (not talking about sub-zero temps here - I live in Australia). This leads me to believe that it is better to err on the cooler side. Hence, more air / more cooling is probably better. I guess if designers were really worried about over-cooling in an air-cooled engine they would design a ducting system with either a manually controlled or a computer-controlled shutter system which could be opened up or closed off to suit cooling conditions. The fact that they not only don't add shutters, but instead add additional cooling in the form of oil coolers and air scoops (in all markets world-wide) is quite telling. The fact is that most aircooled engines (even high tech ones like BMW's new high compression R1200S) have no problem with overcooling even in cold climates. I don't believe that oil coolers on air-cooled bikes are even thermostatically controlled. If over-cooling was an issue, you'd think they would be. When my XB12R fan runs all the time on a hot summer's day (even when I am riding at constant open road speeds) this tells me that the rear cylinder could do with some more air. I for one, will be getting a second air scoop in time for our next Southern summer. | ||
| Lenb |
"I would not want more air scooped into that area during the winter" In winter, take it off or stuff it up! Left side too (back of the air intake that is! If you go to that extreme, you should probably rig up a shroud in front of the front cylinder too - you don't want that running too cool either.  Then again, if it's that cold, stay inside in front of the fire! (Message edited by lenb on July 11, 2006) | ||
| Diablobrian |
FWIW Bruce the 05+ fuel pumps are quieter than the 03-04's. The impeller is different so it cavitates less. The fuel pick-up is different too to prevent engine stalling when hard on the brakes at low fuel levels. the thermal and fluid (air) flow around these engines is very complex. I'd love to find a high volume fan that would fit in the bike, but run quieter. We discussed that before on other threads. | ||
| Sokota |
Of note , XBs maintain a very cool oil tempature , after multiple readings last summer the highest oil tempature recorded was 174 degrees at 87 degrees air tempature after very agressive riding. 05 XB9SX stock cooling system .I reguarlly see 220 to 245 degrees on a KTM Duke or Honda XR 600. Personally I think the stock right front shroud is designed to help pull air over the front cylinder in a stop and go traffic situation | ||
| Robertoxb9 |
This is the right airscoop Aeholton talked about. It fits exactly the left one, because it's build out of two pieces. Fan is below 90F only a few seconds, after shutting the engine. I am very satisfied with it, and even more people with me..   | ||
| Blake |
Glitch, "The addition a right side scoop to our air cooled engine living inside close quarters can't be bad, in normal to hot conditions." While conventional knowledge would seem to support your assertion, it based upon the assumption that the right side scoop provides additional well distributed cooling to the rear cylinder. But the fact is that we really don't know for sure. It is not impossible that added airflow to the rear cylinder could create greater temperature differences across the cylinder/head; it is not impossible that altering the airflow over the rear cylinder might cause problems you have not imagined via effects you have not imagined. Probably not, but it is possible. I think most folks assume that the front cylinder's environment is akin to being exposed to an unobstructed free flow of air. It isn't. And it has a very hot exhaust header running right in front of it. Richard, How would cold temperatures cause a cylinder to "freeze up" as you say? Len, The multi-speed computer controlled cooling fan takes care of adjusting for variable riding conditions. Might it be significant that folks rarely ride a motorcycle in freezing temperatures? | ||
| Glitch |
Probably not, but it is possible. Entirely possible. I think I'm going to go with a larger oil cooler instead anyway. It's also the less expensive alternative. I believe with a larger capacity oil cooler the cooling would be spread out over out the engine, rather than spot cooling with another side scoop. Although I still can't see how it would be a problem. It'd be nice to know for sure one way or another though. | ||
| Blake |
Is your oil overheating? Frankly, I'd not be surprised if the existing oil cooler isn't significant overkill. The oil tank is huge aluminum heat sink exposed to significant airflow. I think y'all are trying to solve an imaginary issue. That said, if my XB fan was noisy and bothered me, I'd probably put on a right side scoop too and not worry too much about the ill effects. I'd plug it in cold weather though, just like I'd cover/block-off the oil cooler in cold weather too.  | ||
| Glitch |
I'm not bothered by the fan. It's just a hot running bike, in a hot city, in hot city stop and go traffic. It's also got over 45,000 miles. It's a huge tank that holds little oil. Between it, the engine, and the oil cooler, there's only 21/2 quarts. If my bike was totally stock I wouldn't worry so much about heat. | ||
| Robertoxb9 |
The funny thing is that we have issues: - a technical one - a aesthetically one Here in western Europe, temperatures aren't that high compared to most of the States. With low temperatures I tape my oilcooler as well. It's easy noticeable when it gets to hot, but the XB's need to have quite hot engines, then they perform well. | ||
| Lenb |
The multi-speed computer controlled cooling fan takes care of adjusting for variable riding conditions. Trouble is, on a hot day my fan runs continuously (at high speed) even when I am riding at open road speeds. Clearly the rear cylinder is not getting enough cool air. In the same conditions, my friend's bike, which has a rhs scoop, only has the fan only come on in stop-start traffic. Then, when we stop, his fan quickly switches off, while mine whines on like a noisy vacuum cleaner for about 10min. If those rhs side scoops weren't so expensive I'd have one already. | ||
| Blake |
Ten minutes? Something is amiss with your bike. I'd wager that ten minutes without a fan would have the engine cooled down well below the shutoff temperature for the fan. sounds to me like your temperature sensor is way out of calibration. | ||
| Davo |
My xb12x runs all the time after it turns on. I think the Uly must have a different set of parameters than some of the other xb's. Do you have the fan parameters in your shop manual? If so please post the key on, key off fan operation temperatures. I will compare them to the 2006 Uly. |
