| Author | Message | ||
     Ds_tiger |
FYI http://www.badweatherbikers.com/buell/messages/32777/211972.html?1152788751 Dcmortalcoil- I don't know where you got that number, but it is right. I used a torques wrench (for the 1st time on the plug, before, I had done it by feel) Shoulda kept to the feel method 40 FT-LBS pulled the threads right out of the swing arm. NOT GOOD So now I have a newly tapped drain hole with a 14 mm magnetic plug, and all of the BS associated with tapping, cleaning and assuring clean (no particles in my oil, thanks) My experience- for what it's worth | ||
| Davo |
I use 12-14 ft.-lbs. on the oil plug. I do use 565 thread sealer on it though. If you go into the timing window be careful there as well. No more than 120 INCH-lbs. That is only 10 ft. lbs.!! The torque spec guy needs a little help at Buell. | ||
| Ds_tiger |
UPDATE- the manual calls for 29- 34 ft LBS Page 1-14 2006 Factory service manual I mistook 40 NM for FT LBS Regardless, that is a lot of torque for a o-ring sealed plug. So for me? the lesson---> a 25 % torque overage, is on 90 % or so of the fasteners on the bike is not a problem. On the drain plug?; PROBLEM Take it easy with the plug torque | ||
| Skyguy |
I use the feel method on my XB and check it again after it has been ridden a bit. Once when tired I turned the drain plug the wrong way on my CBR and thought hmmm this seems kinda tight so pulled real hard. Bye-bye threads. I had a three day ride planned the next day with friends so I pulled the pan, woke up early and found a local welder. Had him weld the darn hole shut. Made it back home in time to meet the guys lol. The following oil change was a pain in the tush though. | ||
| Cmm213 |
I find that a lot of these torque values in the manuel are a bit high. I spun the pinch bolt on the swingarm the last time I changed tires, and I followed the spec numbers | ||
| Buckinfuell |
I'm at a loss to understand what is going on here. This is not the first thread to claim thread damage when tightening bolts according to manual torque specs. For me, 9 times out 10, I tighten to the upper limit of torque specs and still think, wow, that's it??? I really have to question one of two things: 1) is your torque wrench properly calibrated, or 2) do you really know how to use it properly??? I'm not trying to be a dick here, but my God, you'd really would have to crank on the pinch bolt the shear the threads... | ||
| Ds_tiger |
Good point I asked myself the same question I am a mechanical engineer- not that that means anything... I have been working on/ riding and traveling the US racing for 20 some odd years. A lot of valve adjustments, a lot of tire changes- you get the idea. I raced WERA Nationals (or tried) on Buells (S1 and S3) for a local Harley dealer in 1996-97 (and you don't want to know my experiences - well maybe you do- but...) I have wrenched on a lot of bikes This is what it is.... | ||
| Blake |
"Had him weld the darn hole shut. Made it back home in time to meet the guys lol." I'd have done the exact same thing!  Whatever it takes!  | ||
| Dcmortalcoil |
The 11-15ft/lb comes from the service manual at a different page. See the section for changing the primary oil. | ||
| Metalstorm |
I've always had good luck at an even 30 foot lbs. for the oil plug. | ||
| Buckinfuell |
Ds-tiger, I wasn't challenging your capabilities, clearly you know what you are doing. I'm just scratching my head, cuz like I said, I always feel that the torque specs seem kinda light. But then again, I have a tendency to overtighten everything. Have you checked your torque wrench? | ||
| Metalstorm |
"But then again, I have a tendency to overtighten everything" I had to laugh when I read that because I know what you mean. My friends won't allow me to tighten anything without a torque wrench after the snapping of the Chevy Malibu wheel studs fiasco of a few years back. | ||
| Davo |
29-34 ft.-lbs. is insane for an oil plug! Even if it was a steel plug in steel and this application is a steel plug into aluminum. 12-14 lbs. is more than enough with 565 on it. If you continue to go 29 ft.lbs. you will strip the threads sooner or later. I admit I went to 29 ft. lbs. the first time and I realized how crazy it was while I was tightening the plug; Never again. | ||
| Ds_tiger |
No prob Buckinfuell I was hot off the retap and the whole pray to God that I got all the tap filings out, or you will need to pull the swingarm, or worse... I have not checked my torque wrench. Good suggestion. Seat of the pants says --I don't really know what/why it happened. I need to be more attentive- meaning 40 NM does not equal 30 FT LBS (though they are close) and put the word out there to "not do what I did"- cause there are a lot of things that are a pain in the rear end, but this one will stop your ride and cause MAJOR headaches | ||
| Ds_tiger |
well put Davo | ||
| Davo |
Ds tiger, just run some clean oil through the swing arm. If you don't get all the filings the oil filter will pick them up. They are aluminum and should not hurt anything between the swingarm and the filter. The system is designed to pick up steel on the plug magnet so aluminum should not hurt anything. | ||
| Buckinfuell |
When I used to work as a research engineer at the US Air Force Research Laboratory, the quality department would always insist on checking and re-calibrating our torque wrenches every six months. I don't know if, and by how much, they were ever out of spec and if they were, what they did, if anything, to recalibrate them. They just came back with a sticker on it saying everything was OK, and the next date for re-cal. Since then, I have always worried about my own torque wrenches at home. I have read that you cannot trust them when you buy them new, especially the Sears brand. However, I don't know how much truth there is to that. Anyway, I always treat mine like delicate surgical instruments as I am so paranoid about throwing them off cal. | ||
| Blake |
Preloading a bolt based upon torque only is a hit and miss proposition anyway. On job sites where torque wrenches are being used to achieve the required preload in high strength structural fasteners, the torque wrenches must be checked/recalibrated every day. The culprits, besides the normal geometric variations in bolts, nuts and threaded holes include variation in lubricant or lack thereof, condition of mating surfaces (clean, dirty, oxidized, lubricated), size of the torque wrench (for instance it takes a 40 LB force to generate 20 FT-LBs of torque with a 6" wrench compared to only 20 LBs for a 12" long wrench; that additional 20 LBs can add to the frictional loses/inefficiency of the torqing process), speed of torquing (faster torquing generates higher temperatures and thus more severe thermal expansion effects, even ambient temperature can have an effect. But torque works well enough. Engineers simply size the fasteners to be large enough to achieve the required preload (clamping force) while also being able to withstand the most severe stack-up of torquing inefficiencies. The best way to most accurately guarantee an accurate bolt preload is to use a turn of the nut method similar to what H-D/Buell specify for the cylinder head studs/nuts. In aerospace there are some fasteners whose driving head will break off when the desired torque is reached. In construction, they now have special load indicating washers that directly verify proper bolt preload. The washers have raised dimples that predictable deform/crush when the desired preload is achieved. Pretty cool stuff.  | ||
| Tunes |
My place of business uses multiple torque wrenches of varying sizes. I'm good friends with the guy who has them calibrated, right there at the site. I sit next to him and across from the bench where they perform the calibration, every 2 months. The torque wrenches are always out of calibration and require re-calibration. Because most of our products go to the military/US military, frequent calibration is required. I've worked on HD and Buell products since '80 when I bought my '76 XLCH... and have worked on most of 'em from '46 models onward. I've never stripped a bolt or nut due to torque specs. Ham-handedness maybe... Would you believe, very likely? 99% of all ruined threads I've delt with are inherited. Then, all of a sudden, since I now have stripped threads, I get to fix 'em. Sucks. Most of the time, I use my calibrated wrist/hands. Saved many a thread/bolt about to go. By hand is how I was taught, by this cool old dude at a m/c shop in Albuquerque in the 60's, where I apprentised. This guy worked on every brand m/c and forgot more than I could ever learn. I was like a sponge... I couldn't ask the questions fast enough. Motorcycling was different back then... | ||
| Fullpower |
may I recommend safety wire as an alternative to an overly tight drain plug?  | ||
| Ds_tiger |
Yes- good idea  Might I also suggest this:  | ||
| Cmm213 |
Hey Buckinfuell, I guess I'm to stupid to read my matco torque wrench that gets calibrated once a year. This is my fifth street bike, but its the only one that has broke or ruined threads by tightening a bolt to specs on a manuel. I think that most badweb members are pretty good wrenches, when you leave a smart ass post like you did your going to piss people off. Ds tiger just went through retapping his oil drain and was asking for help and warning people about it. Think about that next time you ask about something and someone flames you. If you were not trying to be a dick then you would not have left that post! | ||
| Brineusaf |
How did you's safety wire the plug? Just simply drill a small hole through the head and run the wire, or is it not that simple? Excuse the ignorance, just trying to make sure if I try this that I do it correctly. | ||
| Scoobytwo |
To go about safeting a bolt or plug it is as simple as drilling a hole in the fastener( center punch hole before starting).Then lop the safety wire through the hole and secure it in a tightening direction. you can find Saftey wire at aviation supply places . Just makes sure that the drill bit you use is only a few thou larger. Sorry to message in, hope I didn't but in. Any question please PM me | ||
| Brineusaf |
Thanks scooby. I'll go ahead and do that next time I do a service, to avoid fear of over-tightening the plug. | ||
| Diablobrian |
Safety wire is a great idea. Rumor has it these Buells vibrate a little  | ||
| Buckinfuell |
Sorry Cmm213. I guess I just need to be careful with how I word things. I didn't mean to be insulting. | ||
| Cmm213 |
Your good man, it just sucks when I have a problem and I ask for help and get treated like a fool. I have done it too and then went back and made it right |
