| Author | Message | ||
     Fielddoc |
Hello I have been riding dirt bikes for most of my life, but street bikes are relatively new to me but I love it. I love my Firebolt its so fun to ride. My question besides just getting out and riding are there tips to become a better rider my friends all have ducs and cbrs and the other usual bikes and I want to start riding with them but I know I cant keep up with them in the straight aways nor do i want to I have a career that I cant get reckless tickets, but the corners is where I truly want to become a better rider. I just dont really know how fast and how far I can lean yet and I dont want to push her to crashing. I geuss what Im saying is how did you really get comfortable in the corners you just do it a lot over and over and gradually pick up the speed? Im sorry If this is a stupid post but Im relatively new to street riding I only have 500 miles on my firebolt. Is there any schools that help I took the basic safety course already would you recomend a racing course for someone at my level? | ||
| Mr_cuell |
MSF classes are a good start, as is a a reputable race school combined with track days. MSF and track instructors can clarify for you the best mental and physical approach to corning techniques, and track time will allow you to explore your skills and your bike, while allowing for small mis-judgements that put you off line. A small error will not put you off the line/maybe the track, and a major brain fart should result in only a gravel trap or tire wall, as opposed to an Escalade or an oak. Go fast by going slow (literally and figuratively), and learning the right way through experienced instructors and seat time. Get and read Keith Codes' Twist of the Wrist books. Cover to cover. Whatever you do, don't let your ego drive you on to keep up with them. Ego + public road = bad news (Message edited by mr_cuell on June 19, 2006) | ||
| Diablobrian |
Start with a MSF basic rider course, and then progress to a track school. NOT a "race school" The race school exists to license racers. The track school exists to hone rider skills on a track where there are minimal road hazards to distract you from riding your best. the MSF advanced riders course would be a good idea too. | ||
| Mr_cuell |
Good clarification Diablo - I took a track day class and learned loads. 3 months later I took a race school to get my license and it was basically a rubber stamp process to make sure we weren't a danger to ourselves and others. The track day schools will probably be much more comprehensive and useful to you - (Message edited by mr_cuell on June 19, 2006) | ||
| Diablobrian |
No problem, it's a common question/misconception. Glad you took it in the manner I intended it. On re-reading it I went ack! that sounds a little harsh. Also pick up a book titled: Total Control by Lee Parks. It's my favorite riding technique book. (Message edited by diablobrian on June 19, 2006) | ||
| Vonsliek |
yup .. track days/schools are THE way to safely get used to & comfortable w/ cornering .. after all, straight line speed anyone can do .. its the corners that gets 'em .. it takes a certain acceptance of facing ones mortality if u really wanna push it, but even still relaxing & good body positioning will be shown to u & as long as follow it & look where u r going, u'll be able to keep gsxr's & duc's behind .. as i was told last track day - u have to be smmooooothhhhhhhh. so now i always try to ride more smoothly & hold bike w/ thighs .. i am at gym 4 days a week working on legs & cardio to have the fitness to survive a track day at fair effort - its physically hard work old bean!  | ||
| Curtyd |
Don't get KILLED or MAIMED...You already have time on bikes, now you have to learn to predict the movements of every other vehicle around you ALL OF THE TIME and avoid them. That takes time in traffic, all kinds of traffic. Last but not least, Ride your own RIDE, DO NOT try and keep up with anyone, they will wad you into the gravel sooner than you can say, "OH S***!!!" | ||
| Diablobrian |
I forgot, if you are going to try to ride well remember to start by wearing proper gear. You will need it for track school anyway. It is never too hot to wear it. Modern mesh gear is great, as long as you realize it is basically disposable. It's not leather. | ||
| Fielddoc |
Wow thanks for all of the responses very helpful. Where should I look to pick up those books? Also Im going riding with my buddies this Sunday and I already told them dont expect me to keep up Im going to take my time I want to learn right not be riding out of my skill level. I will look into a track day, I live in San Clemente CA how much you think I should expect to pay for a track day? I already took the basic MSF course. I got into to some trouble some years ago back in 2000 riding an R1 out of my skill level and I dont want to repeat my previous mistakes Im much more mature now and I want to be a good rider not a crazy rider, thanks. | ||
| 99buellx1 |
www.amazon.com | ||
| Diablobrian |
Sounds like you have a very mature attitude towards riding Fielddoc. Always ride your pace. It is the responsibility of a group ride leader to maintain a comfortable pace based on the least experienced riders pace. Never get worked up about catching up to the group. If they leave you behind you don't want to ride with them anyway. try to get your riding buddies to read "the pace" http://sportrider.com/ride/146_9306_motorcycle_pacing/ Keep your cool, look through your corners and you'll do well. As was said don't let your ego take control. It will get you hurt very very quickly. I've seen it too many times. Amazon.com will have the books. | ||
| Fielddoc |
Thanks so much you guys. I enjoyed that article very good info i will definately make sure my friends read it. Thanks for all the info I really take street riding serious dirt bikes were a lot more forgiving and I know how dangerous street bikes can be if you are careless, but they sure are fun to ride when done right. thanks again | ||
| Jlnance |
Fielddoc - Welcome to BadWeb. Thanks for asking. So many people wont and then get hurt. My first recomendation would be the MSF Basic Rider class. You'll already know much of the material, but you'll get two days of coaching on the range, which is invaluable. There are books you can read. I like Reg Pridmore's "Smooth Riding." You can't really learn to ride from a book, but they will give you ideas of things to go out and practice. Nothing beats practice. When you go out for a ride, pick some skill to work on, and make a point of practicing that. Something specific like being smooth with gear changes, or swerving around potholes, or looking through turns. You'll pick things up much faster doing this than if you just go for a ride. Since you're interested in getting better with turns... You asked about how far you can lean. Given dry pavement, the bike can lean over until the pegs scrape on the ground. For me the limiting factor is how far I am comfortable leaning the bike. It's very much a mental thing. The bike is much more capable than I am. Probably the most important thing about turns is staying off the brakes. Get the speed right before the turn starts. If you are in the turn and realize you're going to fast, lean more, don't hit the brakes. Very skilled riders can user their brakes in turns, but it's not something you want to do in the beginning. The next most important thing is to look through the turns, meaning when you enter the turn, you move your head (not just your eyes) so that you're looking at the exit of the turn. Physically this places your arms in the right position to steer. Psychologically it is a view that makes you much more comfortable. For example:  See how the rear rider has his head turned? Make a concious effort to do that. | ||
| Tleighbell |
Also, read Nick Ienatch's book. Sorry, can't remember the name right now. maybe I'll ccheck when I get home. | ||
| Ratyson |
Jlnance's statement about looking through the turn could not be more true. Basically, you will go where you are looking. If you are looking at that rock wall on the outside of the turn... that is most likely where you are going to end up, same goes for that car that is coming through the turn in the opposite direction. Entry speed is paramount, adjusting your speed in a turn is a bit tricky when you are too hot, not so much if you are a bit slow. Just always remember... Public roads are not a racetrack. I have seen several riders try to keep up with the faster ones and end up in a ditch. It sounds like you are on the right track to be a safe, smooth, and quick rider. For track day information, check out sportbiketracktime.com or privatetracktime.com. This will give you an idea about how much they cost and when they are in your area. I have not yet been to a track day, but I am trying to get to one in the next year. Everyone I talk to raves about them, and some have given up street riding and have gone full bore into racing and track days only. (Message edited by ratyson on June 20, 2006) | ||
| Slaughter |
Reading is a good idea to get your mind in the proper place but above all else, ride at your own pace - on the track OR on the street. By all means after the MSF courses and a little street experience, get thee to a QUALITY track day operator - one with a good instructor/student ratio. BUT If you're riding on the street with riders who think they've bought their way to high performance riding by being on a generic sportbike, I have two words of advice: "RUN AWAY!" Learn at your own pace, ride at your own pace. If it's important to you that you ride with them, ask them to wait for you at a pre-arranged place for a head-count before proceeding. Ride at your own pace. So often I hear of a rider trying to catch-up or stay with another rider or riders who ends up with a helicopter ride. Ride at your own pace. Remember, the more you ride through turns without enough maneuvering room to change your line around rocks, dirt, water, oil, animals, cow-pies, u-turning cars (all things I count on finding a few times a year) - the closer you are to your first medevac. Ride at your own pace. Take it to the track and enjoy your street rides at a relaxed pace. You can still have tons of fun without your knee on the ground or sliding your bike through the turns. Did I mention to ride at your own pace? (Message edited by slaughter on June 20, 2006) | ||
| Curtyd |
I forgot to mention, RIDE, RIDE and RIDE. Don't save the bike for special occasions, try and be on it every day. There is nothing to substitute for seat-time especially when learning the STREETS... | ||
| Slaughter |
There's a HUGE difference between the thrill of sliding your bike at speed on the track and the pure terror of doing it unexpectedly on the street. Doesn't take power to be beyond the edge of control. | ||
| Diablobrian |
I think Slaughter forgot to mention: Ride at your own pace!  | ||
| Mikej |
"Basically, you will go where you are looking. " Sideline story: There's a tale of old where two guys are talking while riding dirt bikes on mountain logging roads, one says to look where you want to go, the other says that if you slide off the edge of a 100' cliff looking back at the road won't get you back to the road. Sometimes you look where you want to go, sometimes you look where you want to land, sometimes you look at what you want to avoid and steer accordingly. No rules are absolutes, but they are good general guidelines to live and ride by. Know when to follow the rules, know when to break them, experience teaches you when to do which. | ||
| Rhun |
he who rides way over his head usually lands on it . Or another favorite: use your head to go fast, not to break your fall. Seriously, falling on dirt can be fun, not so on asphalt. | ||
| Bumblebee |
1.Do the MSF BRC (basic rider) first, that exposes you to the street smart part of riding. 2.Now do the MSF ERC, this will teach you how to handle you bike better. 3.Now, get some track time, the AFM can help with this. Enjoy the ride. | ||
| Slaughter |
use your head to go fast, not to break your fall. Love it! I'm gonna use that one! | ||
| Metalstorm |
"I already told them dont expect me to keep up Im going to take my time I want to learn right not be riding out of my skill level." That one sentence there has won big respect from me. You're starting out with a very good & intelligent attitude  Welcome to the BadWeb Don't really have anything to add as far as advice as everyone has already shared some really good stuff | ||
| Sgthigg |
Read Twist of the wrist 1 2 3 and total control. Those books are extremely good to read and start practicing techniques for the road and track. | ||
| Teddagreek |
Took the MSF course last year... I hadn't had a bike for close to four years at that time.. Taking the class help me shed some bad habits.. Take in mind I taught my self to ride on a honda CB250 in my back yard when I was 14. Crashed into the fence that day  . Needless to say I wrecked that day and learned Respect the hard way.. Taking the advanced MSF class next month.. Read Twist of the Wrist books... This is great book I have and love..  Plan on a track school in fall too hot now.. I've also have hear good things about DVD ride like pro. Good Luck... | ||
| Buellgirlie |
You asked about how far you can lean. Given dry pavement, the bike can lean over until the pegs scrape on the ground. For me the limiting factor is how far I am comfortable leaning the bike. i've proven this one wrong click on my profile pic to see a pic of shifter scraping....though its definitely not a recommended riding position. my limit is now my ability to hang off the motorycle to carry more speed around the corners, well, that , and my broken ribs/punctured lung thing -  i would definitely suggest a track school, at a twisty roadracing course. places like daytona and road america, for example have huge long straightaways which will discourage you when that CBR1000 blows past you so fast your paint peels off, but places like jennings and blackhawk and loudon are known for their technical turns and twisties are where buells excel. when you get to the track school, dont just ride haphazardly - get behind an instructor and follow their line and body position. you'll learn tons and be AMAZED at what your bike can do. welcome! D} | ||
| Tleighbell |
1. Learn to countersteer and get leaned over quickly; 2. work on late entry and late apex; 3. Keep your eyes up and try to look at the entry, apex and exit at once (Keith Code has a good section on this visual technique; 4. Learn to use your body and head weight by hanging off and weighting the footpegs; 5. Practice smoothness in your controls and precision in your lines; 6. Don't try to go faster. Doing so will get have all of the above coming unravelled. You will find that when the above techniques start to come together, your speed will increase as if by itself. 7. Resist the urge to exploit the extra speed. You need a larger margin for error than you think. Listen to the voice that tells you you might be pushing your luck. It usually eventually turns out to be right. Ienatch's book and Pridmore's are available from Whitehorse press | ||
| Fielddoc |
Wow this is the best forum, thanks so much for the wealth of knowledge I really appreciate it. I love this street bike think and I love this buell I cant wait to put all the tools and knowledge you people have given me to use. I will order some of those books and I will look into some track days around here. Anyone know any around the LA/San Diego area? Once again thanks for not making me feel dumb for asking these questions. Oh Im installing the pro series race kit for my bike this weekend Im excited. I ride almost every day with the great weather here its hard not to. | ||
| M1combat |
While on the street... Try to make sure that the drivers that could be a threat can see you in a mirror. Try not to ride in places that make you hidden to on-coming traffic (especially the ones turning left in front of you). When leaving a light from the front row... Look left first. If there's a big vehicle to the left of you at a light and you can't see around it... let them pull out a little ahead of you so they get hit instead of you (or at least they take the lion's share of the impact). No one drives well... Watch all of them . Ride a lot but don't lose respect for the bike. It'll bite you REAL quick. If you feel like you're pushing it... You probably are. |
