| Author | Message | ||
     Beachbuell |
Ok, so I'm thinking of picking up a bike strictly for track days. I'll keep the Firebolt for street riding of course. I've looked at Ebay several times and have found what appears to be some fairly decent in line 4 track bikes for sale. My question is why are these bikes priced so cheap? I've seen most priced around $2500 to $5000 for a 4 cylinder track specific bike. I realize most are salvage title bikes that can not be ridden on the road or registered. But these prices seem rather low for a bike that has shark skins and performance upgrades worthy of a race bike. Maybe those of you who do have track bikes can enlighten me a little. | ||
| Shinobi13 |
I paid $2000 for my CBR 600 F4 track bike. It has a clear title and only needed about $500 TLC before she was track ready. You can pick up an affordable track bike very cheap if you are patient and use internet search engines like Ebay, Cycle Trader, etc. There's always someone out there that wants to sell their bike... Lee | ||
| Benm2 |
"Used track bike" has a connotation similar to "used underwear". The following assumptions are usually safe on a used race bike: 1. It's watched the ground-sky-ground-sky movie at least once. Frame may or may not be straight. Look carefully for cracks in subframe attachement points. 2. Engine is not as sharp as it once was. May still run forever, but not at the front of its race class. Look carefully at engine covers. Scuffed aftermarket covers are okay, as long as they don't appear to have been breached. Beware the new, shiny stock cover on an otherwise used racebike. It could have been a simple replacement, or it may have been crash damaged. Sometimes when an engine cover leaves oil from a crash, it takes dirt IN. 3. It likely has upgraded suspension, a definite bonus. Depending on how well tuned it was to the original rider, it may need work to fit your weight & style, up to revalving & respringing (if you're fast enough to notice such things) 4. The tires are shagged. Toss em. 5. Probably needs new sprockets & chain. Alot of times the contingency-chaser crowd ditches the bikes based on class competetiveness. If the newest fastest 600's wipe out last years model on the track, they will be replaced so the finishing position can be better. Check superbikeplanet.com & roadracingworld.com for classifieds, there's alot of used race bikes there too. | ||
| Bumblebee |
Track bikes are rat bikes. But that’s okay. When you find one make sure it isn’t bent and the engine is still good. Make sure nothing is going to fall off and the brakes are good (gotta pass tech inspection) through some new sticky tires on and have fun. One other thing, make sure parts are readily available and cheap. My fave is the K*w*s*k* N*nj* 600, loads of good used parts available, since so many get crashed on the street. It’s a fun track bike. | ||
| Diablobrian |
Be sure to look for "ugly" bikes since you'll need to put a race fairing on it anyway. Race bikes go cheap because it's no secret they've been ridden really hard and usually dropped really hard as well. The developement cycle is about 2 years for new models and some people feel the need to have the latest and greatest. A 5 year old bike will be fine for a beginning racer. For an expert it could be the difference between first and third place, if racing is tight. Take advantage of the price now. The biggest expense in racing is NOT the bike. It's tires and travel. Be prepared to go through 1-2 sets of tires a weekend on a 600 once you start to pick up speed. the liter bikes can burn up 4 sets of tires a weekend easily. The Buells and SV650's (lightweight class) bikes are far easier on tires and you'll be able to squeeze 2 weekends or more out of a pair of tires because they put down power differently. something to think about. also, the grids for the LW classes are usually smaller and have fewer squids in them. It's a good place to learn cornering speed. | ||
| Dago |
Personally, as apposed to searching through Cycle trader or something similar, I'd go to a few track days on the Buell and ask the guys working them (instructors, corner workers, suspension guy, tire guy, etc) if they know of any good deals around. This way, the "money stays within the family" and you're less likely to get a bike with questionable value since the reference is coming from someone with whom you already do business. Other than that, I agree with everything stated above. Good luck! | ||
| Eexb |
A good way to buy a "track bike" is to go to a Track Day weekend at the race track - there's always bikes there advertised for sale. Many times the bike(s) for sale are at that track actually racing. Call local (nearby) MC shops involved in racing and ask if they know of any GOOD TBs for sale. Even here in Omaha NE (the middle of no where) there's (2) local shops w/ SV650s & CBR600RRs for sale (two of the best starter bikes). Good luck, E | ||
| Molly_hatchet |
if u dont mind workin on a bike u can go to a place like this http://www.ridesafely.com i have bought a couple of bikes through these guys and got good deal i live close to one of their storage houses though but there are lots of places that sell totals if u watch for about 2 weeks just what ur lookin for will come in.... good luck id like to know what u end up with im thinkin of doing the same thing. | ||
| Cyclonecharlie |
Something I didn't see mentioned above when looking for brands or specific motors,which has better longevity.And which are alot easier to work on without a shop involved.Assuming you are going to do alot of the work yourself....Charlie | ||
| Indy_bueller |
Hey thanks Molly, thats a great site! Theres even a couple of XB12Rs for sale. | ||
| Slaughter |
Check the classifieds on all the club racing websites and Roadracing World. I'd recommend you post on the Club's BBS that you plan to race with. I'd encourage you to ask questions as a Newbie (search first, lurk a while) - you'd be surprised at the courtesy you'll be shown. Unlike sportbike boards, racing boards are ALMOST always very helpful since you know what they say: "When the green flag drops, the bullshit stops" WERA, CCS/ASRA and AHRMA are racing in your region. AHRMA and ASRA also ran Daytona during Speedweek. WERA is the "farm team" semi-officially for AMA now and Fastrack Riders does their newbie school - and I know a few of their instructors (one of whom races my Buell - Jeff Dixon). WERA http://forums.13x.com/forumdisplay.php?forumid=12 CCS http://www.ccsforum.com/ AHRMA http://ahrma.org/ RRW http://www.roadracingworld.com/classified/ You will do well buying a ready-to-race beater bike for the first couple seasons and then selling it again. Trust me, it's hard wadding up a bike you have an emotional attachment to (though I got over it  ) | ||
| Slaughter |
For example: here's a race-ready SV in FL for $4K - seems pretty well setup (though if it really does deliver 80HP, it isn't a real fire-breather but it probably has some hotter cams, valves and some higher compression) if somebody's boasting 90HP - it's a grenade. My SV would do about 68-70. http://www.roadracingworld.com/classified/ad/?classified=70605 Traxxion-worked forks means he's probably got the cartridge emulators, might have preload adjusters. You can call Max at Traxxion. With the Penske, he probably got the suspension upgrades BOTH from Max and you can do some verification of the suspension on the phone. Assuming the frame isn't busted or bent, I'd bet you could take it out and spank it hard and it'd do OK (and this is just one I found in the first couple minutes of looking) Don't get so knocked out about having to run in the generic inline-four classes. Remember, you are talking RACING - for real and not racing at a coffee shop. The 600-classes are notoriously bloody since every newbie thinks they MUST be in those classes and it's rare that the run all the way to the checker without at least one or two red flags. We call the Middleweight Novice Class at Willow Springs the "Axe Murderer Class" for good reason. You can gain VERY VALUABLE experience "on the cheap" in a lightweight twins class on an EX500 or GS500 Twin - or in EVERY race organization there's at least one class that is dominated by the SV650. Most bikes are very competitive in one class and somewhat competitive in at least two other classes regardless of what bike you race.. Welcome to the madness!!! I'm a suspension crusader: Buy the type of bike you want to race with suspension upgrades (forks re-worked/re-valved/re-sprung or swapped out) and aftermarket shock - and then PLAN to rebuild both forks and shock (pretty cheap if you DIY) Figure that even if the bike starts/runs well, you ought to at least do a compression test to get a sense of how close to a top end rebuild you are. ANY of the little/mid-size twins are cheap to maintain. All of the I-4 bikes are great handling machines - no argument from me there - it's just that the classes are HUGE and frankly until you are comfortable with fast traffic touching you in turns at speeds over 100, I'd recommend the twins classes. Close competition but generally fields more like 20 instead of 50. (but that's me and I'm an old fart racer - YMMV) (Message edited by slaughter on June 20, 2006) | ||
| Beachbuell |
So I guess the prices I mentioned are realistic. I know that most used track bikes are thrashed on one way or another...... or both. Slaughter, thanks for all the links, I'll be checking these out for sure. I'm leaning more towards a 750cc in line 4, either a Suzuki or Kawasaki. There seems to be a large assortment of Gixxers around. Hmmmmmmmm, wonder why that is. "S.Q.U.I.D.S." | ||
| Slaughter |
There are more gixxers because they really are the dominant force in middleweight racing. Doesn't matter where you look, you'll find loads of gixxers. Also can try gixxer.com (they also have a pretty active SV sub-group there) Hey, before I get beatup by the Buell fans here, he's wanting to get into RACING - that's a good thing REGARDLESS of what he races. The CCS/ASRA board is more likely to have Buells on their used classifieds since they've been the big Twins series for years now. By the way, you can also hit up the big insurance companies to get on their salvage bid list - but you're in line with the other insurane "vultures" (like me) . | ||
| Benm2 |
Slaughter, What are the benefits of the suspension work? I've done over a dozen trackdays now & have yet to be able to tell any difference between the rebound screws in or out. The only things I noticed were that (1) more preload kept the bellypan off the pavement better and (2) too much FRONT preload made it hard to turn. What feels different when the suspension is upgraded? I'm considering the RaceTech/Penske upgrade on the M2, and am wondering what its worth. I've never been fast, and likely never will be, but more confidence (from equipment?) would be nice. Any tips would help. | ||
| Buellgirlie |
trackbikes/racebikes always sell at a discount to a street bike. and for the inline 4 crowd, last years bike is no longer competitive even at a reginal level. there are great deals out there to be found, but definitely check the frame and engine integrity.i looked hard for either an SV650, or a buell 9r for under 4K or 12r under 7K. i found the 9r first and bought it. i ended up deciding against the SV650 because of all the upgrades it needed just to get componentry as good as whats stock on a buell. have fun! D | ||
| Molly_hatchet |
yeah indy its a pretty cool way to get started..i belong to a few insurance auction sites now but that was where i bought my first bike...i just missed a gsxr 750 that looked nice....im kinda leanin towards another buell id like to find a black one i can switch plastics with before i unload it.... | ||
| Slaughter |
Benm2, I haven't ridden an M2 on a track - and the only tubers I have ridden on a track are my S3 streetbike and the ex-Hal's S1 Thunderbike and its rear shock (Penske) was shot - poor damping and no difference regardless of compression/rebound settings. It was rebuilt by its owner (who let me take it out at Fontana for one session) I can say that in the case of the XB, the use of the Penske allowed MUCH more confidence - not so much in the adjustments but in the WAY it damped bumps while under load compared to the stock Showa. I never felt that the Showa would give me the same damping after about 10 laps and I worked with the Showa pretty heavily for a few months getting it setup. Having the forks re-valved and re-sprung for my weight just makes them better handling. That being said, if I started over on an XB, I'd race a season before swapping the shock or doing major engine work. The Penske was good for almost an immediate 1.5 second a lap. The 20HP more that I got with the engine mods didn't gain me as much as the suspension work. The M2 forks are kinda limited in what can be done (trying to picture the adjustments available for compression/rebound damping) - and actually you can save some $$ on the rear by getting a Works instead of a Penske (Works is really the only other company making a pull-type shock) - the Works has all the adjustments. The nearly universal sag settings now are running about 35mm (front) and 25mm (rear) In the old days, it was less but with newer suspension, you can get such better damping control that in the last decade people have gone to more sag. Those settings work for EVERY bike for which I've ever helped to setup the suspension and then start working damping settings from there. | ||
| Dmextreme |
I want to find a 06 Yamaha R1 in track bike form. that bike produces 150 HP!!! 18-20k bike brand new! OMG.. but hey.. we have dreams for reasons.. lol | ||
| Buellgirlie |
dmextreme - sure you can find that bike, for a price! and you will be scare the beejeesus out of yourself or, worse, hurt yourself, and never get to experience the fun part of track riding!  i just checked your profile. looks like youve got a 2000 GSXR that you've taken 175mph. where? are you racing? doing track days? D (Message edited by buellgirlie on June 21, 2006) | ||
| Vonsliek |
slaughter .. is the penske (or, elka) rear really that much better than the showa? i do find the showa a little stiff & makes for slippery under hard braking & downgears .. will any of that be improved, as canadian tracks are rough as hell?! | ||
| Slaughter |
The Penske has both high and low speed damping adjustments and that can really help in setting up. Takes longer to get dialled in. I have not heard anything bad about the Elka. The Showa seemed to fade sooner while the Penske seemed to respond the same even after a half hour of racing (F-USA) - though I'd be hard-pressed to say that it's really worth the money right away. The feedback that Jeff Dixon gave me after riding my bike and Bartels big bike (XB with 1340cc motor but stock suspension) - and 20 more HP - was that he also wanted to get the Penske on the rear of the big bike (Bartels ending up buying a Penske for it, too) - made almost a second's difference to his lap times. (Message edited by slaughter on June 22, 2006) | ||
| Vonsliek |
thanks steve. | ||
| Diablobrian |
Elka up until recently specialized in snowmobile and quad shocks. They are reputed to be very good quality. We considered putting one on our previous race bike (sv650s). The price is very attractive. Max McCalister(sp?) had pretty complimentary things to say about them. | ||
| Vonsliek |
saw one on a canadian superbike .. looks the biz. i shd ask the guy. also read abt them in UK mag .. very complimentary & price IS good! | ||
| Slaughter |
You can call Max at Traxxion Dynamics and see what his take is. He's serviced/sold/setup ALL - Ohlins, Penske as well as re-springing and re-valving stock shocks/forks. Works also makes a shock for the XB but I haven't yet heard good or bad about it. |
