| Author | Message | ||
     Cheesebeast |
Howdy All, I have to take a sharp turn on my way to work that sometimes gives me a "hairy". The turn is more than 90 degrees, and it is a small narrow side road. The road I am turning off of is relatively high speed (50+mph) road, complete with tailgaters(who are on the cell phone/fiddling with crack pipes). I can't pull off the side of the road, as there is a soft shoulder. I slow down as much as I can, then take the turn in second gear. The problem is sometimes the engine starts to lug. I can clutch my way through, but is this optimum? Basically I don't want to lug the engine, but I don't want to get rear-ended slowing the XB down enough to safely downshift into first. I don't have the experience to know the optimum answer. I have had an MSF course, but the XB has more "unforgiving" gearing and of course a lot more power on tap. Do you use the clutch to keep the revs up in second gear? | ||
| Jkhawaii |
I tend to slip the clutch some times as I find it easier to modulate than the throttle, but I am no expert. just take it a 50  | ||
| Wahmbush |
I am with Jkhawaii....lean that bike over and give it gas  | ||
| Typeone |
i hate turns like that. i usually try to slow down way before the turn, signal on a little longer, just to try and make the psycho cages really take notice i'm going that way. nothing worse than last minute 'oh sh*t' on the brakes situation with a river of them behind you. if the engine is lugging in second it sounds like you're needing to go pretty slow. drop it to first and really fan the clutch one time. see if you can control it that way. i slip the clutch a lot on my 12 in the super slow stuff. i feel like i just have to on a motor with this much torque/thump down low. EDIT: sorry, i just read your post again. "Basically I don't want to lug the engine, but I don't want to get rear-ended slowing the XB down enough to safely downshift into first." are you able to downshift mid-turn? sounds like a dangerous turn with no way to really slow down. what speed would a cage make that turn at? i'm still curious about the engine lugging in 2nd and what your speed/RPM is. (Message edited by typeone on May 30, 2006) | ||
| Angelwild327 |
I take corners pretty slow, myself. I shift down to first, as with a 12, going too slow in second will definitely give you trouble.. feather your rear break some (don't use the front at all if possible as you don't want to lock up the wheel you're making that turn with, and if they are capable of seeing your break light, tap it a few times to give them a little eye candy AHEAD of time, enough to let them know you're going to take that corner slow. I just clutch a lot, feather the rear and be ready to throttle out of the corner as soon as you can, if you're on a 12, you can get up to speed fast and easy in first. | ||
| Glitch |
I shouldn't give advise for such a technical corner, as these are the kind of corners I tend to see how smooth I can run these type corners without using brakes, keeping tension on the engine and coming out under power in second gear.  | ||
| Cheesebeast |
Thanks all for the responses, I have tried downshifting into first mid-turn, but I usually go in too quickly for first and frankly my "blipping" needs work. When I have done this poorly the rear end chirps, wags, and visions of lowsiding dance in my head. I goose the throttle when this happens, so I keep things civil and on two wheels. I obviously need work on fanning the clutch. I feel like my skills are stuck "between gears". I don't know how fast cars take this turn, probably under 15mph. I could avoid this turn and seek an alternate route but I refuse to avoid riding situations like this. I need to master this or I won't improve. It isn't like I can just stick with popping wheelies in school zones, right?? | ||
| Bcordb3 |
I feel like my skills are stuck "between gears". That statement says volumes. Not many riders would make that statement. That's a good thing on your part. I would probably slow down a little sooner, make your intention known (use your blinkers) and make the turn in whatever gear you feel comfortable. (Message edited by bcordb3 on May 30, 2006) | ||
| Debueller |
Don't be afraid to modulate your speed using the clutch and throttle in first or second gear. Done properly it does not abuse the clutch. I use the "two finger" method alot at low speeds....index and middle finger on the clutch and the other fingers on the grip. Jeremy McGrath (supercross champion, rider extrodinare) once said in a interveiw, to become a good rider one must master the motorcycle's controls. I totally agree. When you've mastered that take it to the next level and start using the rear brake, doing all three at once to precisecly control your speed. This method works excellent at very low speeds in first gear, especially when turning around in tight areas (like a single lane road). Done properly you can turn your bike with the steering all the way to the lock. (especially if you are on a Uly with it's limited steering lock) With all the torque a 12 has on tap even in second gear you should be able to modulate the clutch then "point and shoot"... few cagers would be able to hit you even if they tried. That method also works great when you are ready for those "school zone wheelies"  | ||
| Cheesebeast |
Unfortunately I am old enough to know when I don't know how to do something, need practice, or should seek professional instruction. I miss the days when I was immortal, invincible, and infallible. Lucky for me I didn't own this bike back then. I think it is time to treat myself to a pair of frame sliders and then abuse a parking lot until the pavement screams for mercy. I am glad to hear that modulating the clutch doesn't equal abuse. Thanks again for the responses, Cheese | ||
| Angelwild327 |
Cheese...how are you at U-Turns?? Maybe this would be a good time to find a great parking lot and practice your extremely slow turns and u-turns..it's great to be good going fast, but in all things, once you break it all down in slow motion, it's not as easy...if you have time practice some slow turns in a controlled environment where you don't have the pressure of someone with their crack-pipe, blackberry, dvd screen and a GPS that has their drug dealer on speed-find. check out this article, http://www.ridelikeapro.com/UTurn.htm The guy teaches people tricks from motorcycle cop training, and he has a bunch of good articles on his website. He has a class he teaches in Florida, and several videos for sale on the internet. | ||
| Cheesebeast |
Hi Angel, Frankly I am mediocre at U-turns. I get my butt over in the saddle, don't target fixate and keep the motor pulling, so I CAN do it correctly. I can't do it 100% of the time correctly, though! Usually target fixation is the problem. I seem to do better at one direction than the other. It sure has been an education that the most difficult riding challenges for me have been at very low speeds. Practice is what I need. Thanks for the link- I will read up and (again) practice. Cheese | ||
| Angelwild327 |
Cheese, what are you riding, by the way? | ||
| Teddagreek |
How are you going in the turn and how are you going out.. Remember your MSF classes.... I have a bad habit of just leaning out and not getting a good approach into a turn.. I'm working on it though.... I'm a bit rusty from not riding for a few years... Go back when its less crowded and hit it.. Once a Marine always a Marine! | ||
| U4euh |
I'd take a step backward. Long before you 'turn in' pulse the front brake so that the brake light pulses also, raise your left arm to signal a right turn, check your mirrors for the moron patrol, then proceed to late apex the turn. I even do so much as to ride the center-off centerleft side of the lane. Once I can see that the person behind me knows I am turning then I proceed. Practicing this turn in traffic is not wise, you have enough to concentrate on without worrying about the schmuck behind you. Make yourself seen, then have fun. Some one else said, drive like they are all blind to you. | ||
| Xb12rider |
angel your awesome cause you mentioned ride like a pro I swear by it and was going to type the same response. Well not exactly cheese your bike has enough grunt to be in 2nd gear on all but the slowest turns , the turn you describe sounds like a decreasing radius turn the kind of turn that catches even the best riders off guard. For the turn you set up on the farthest out side of the turn (for left hand turns farthest right and vise versa ) relax and brake and turn stay in your lane and use all your lane to bring the bike through the apex of the turn as close to the inside of the turn at the middle of the apex start to throttle up and move toward out side of your lane. It feels like this brake frnt & rear, then rear or trail brake when you hit the middle of turn you should be going 15-20 mph from 50mph clutch in coast a little and remember to keep head and eyes up and look through your turn throttle up and move toward the out side of your lane. The rear brake is your friend dont abuse her of she will get scared and lock up causing you to panic, one last thing practice practice practice ! it may not make you perfect but it will make you alot better. my 2cents | ||
| Jackbequick |
My brother, an experienced rider who owns a BMW 1150 something, recently startled himself by opening the throttle in a turn while test driving my Buell. And I had warned him about it. No one or nothing got hurt but he has a lot more respect for the torque of Buell engines now. My advice to any one new to H-D engines is to brake, gear down, and to be in the gear and at the throttle setting you want to use in the turn before you start leaning into the turn. Screw the person behind you if they are in a hurry, they can go around you. Ride you own space but with an awareness. On around town riding for less experienced riders I stress that acceleration should not be done unless the bike is vertical and the bars squared to the bike. And always with a roll on, never with a wrist snap. Both of those are on the very conservative side of the riding experience. People will start to "break the rules" almost immediately but they will also get the foot and hand movements practiced and learn the factors and forces as they get it working and develop their skills. On around town riding, hook one or two fingers over the brake lever and learn to leave them there as you do the downshift throttle blips. You don't really roll you hand as much as just apply a quick down and around pressure with your palm and heel of your hand. You can quickly get the knack of doing it without increasing braking. The full time finger(s) on the brake lever at slower speeds is a key part of not locking up the front wheel if you need to get some braking going suddenly. People in general and newbies in particular will almost always apply too much initial force on the lever in the process of going from a full four finger wrap on the throttle to grabbing the brake lever. Throttle blips are an absolutely essential skill and add a lot of safety and joy to the riding experience. Dumping the clutch with the wheel and engine speed mismatched either higher or lower can put you on your ear. Sudden decelleration or changes in driveline loadings from engine compression can disrupt road/tire traction are and just as dangerous as sudden acceleration. Get skilled/smarter, ride better/safer, and you'll have fun! Jack | ||
| Diablobrian |
For the novice rider I would not recommend experimenting with trail braking on a busy road with inattentive drivers. Not a good idea. Separate braking and turning to make the most of available traction. Set your cornering speed before entering the turn. Then keep steady throttle or slowly roll on the throttle as you progress through the corner. This will keep the chassis from becoming unsettled mid-corner. Remember Mark Donahue's friction circle? see pg6 for a quick overview in this link: http://www.cerpca.org/Revvin%20604.pdf It holds a lot of similarities to Keith Code's $1 of attention. Practice your trail braking at low speeds in a parking lot, not in traffic. Do what ever you have to do to get the attention of the motorists behind you. Flourescent/reflective vest, halogen or BRIGHT LED tail light, tail light modulator/flasher....anything that gets their attention is GOOD, short of setting up a sniper nest and....well that would be BAD. Anyway that's my 2 cents on this. I could be wrong, and if someone has a better perspective on this please disregard my ramblings. BDWD......... Biker Dads With Daughters est.2006 defending our sweet little girls from those bad bad boys. You're not one of THEM are you? | ||
| Cheesebeast |
Hi Angel, I am riding a 2003 XB9R. I am having a lot of fun with the bike (with the exception of one turn). Doing the commute to work (70 miles of curvy backroads) offers lots of learning experiences. Blipping the throttle is something I have to work on, as sometimes I don't match the engine revs to road speed and get that lovely protest "sqweeerk" out of the rear end. I have taken to using two fingers on the front brake and it definitely has helped me moderate my braking better. I used to think the rear brake on my Buell was next to useless, but I "discovered" it's value in smoothly getting me down to the proper speed for a turn. I try to separate braking from turning at this point, but I am starting to incorporate some trail braking. I also use the rear brake on hill starts. We have lots of steep hills to practice on. The many uses of the rear brake was a big discovery for this grasshopper... Thanks all, Cheese |
