| Author | Message | ||
     Mr_cuell |
Does the anonymous feature really benefit us at all? As Blake has clearly stated- we have no idea who it is, and by extension it offers no reason why we should believe what they say. They throw out proclamations or denials, and according to Medics post about the XB release a few years ago, they sometimes lie/don't know the truth. I try to treat this place like conversation with fellow riders at a stop on a ride. Having people drop in with Anony is kind of like someone showing up wearing a bag over their head. You can do that with a name, like BuellGrl, but with the Anony feature it is so in your face deliberate, it just kind of stinks. I can do without the little bit of questionable truth they might offer in order to be relieved of the blank check the moniker affords. Am I out of line and and just missing a lot of useful info? I haven't been that active over the past year, so maybe I have missed the value - Blake - you seem to be good with the anony feature. What is it that I am missing? Are they risking their jobs by sharing the info with us? And if so, they should stop! | ||
| Alexfiggy |
it could be MR.BUELL? | ||
| Firemanjim |
You know,I just went and read that thread and again I am amazed at the tone that an "anon" takes here.His posts are spiteful and petty sounding,kinda like a 10 year old brat.After the last several instances of abusive posts from the anons I am questioning the way we allow the usage here. And even if it is not someone from the Buell Co. it is still unseemly behavior. And if you are like me,I automatically assume that the anons answering us with such authority disclaiming stuff are from the Co. and as such have a certain responsibility to maintain a professional level of courtesy here. If they cannot ,I for one,say they are not welcome. | ||
| Josh_ |
>according to Medics post about the XB release a few years ago, they sometimes lie/don't know the truth. I believe a close read at the time showed no untruths, just misdirection. But all the threads are still here if you want to check it out. | ||
| Dbird29 |
And yet the Anony's have the passion of those actually doing the work, not some Buell Hater© speculator. It the IP address range is vetted allow them, otherwise it could be any jackhole. From M-W.com speculate One entry found for speculate. Main Entry: spec·u·late Pronunciation: 'spe-ky&-"lAt Function: verb Inflected Form(s): -lat·ed; -lat·ing Etymology: Latin speculatus, past participle of speculari to spy out, examine, from specula watchtower, from specere to look, look at -- more at SPY intransitive senses 1 : to take to be true on the basis of insufficient evidence : | ||
| Jima4media |
I only believe about 20% of what I read on the internet, unless it is verified by at least three independent and reliable sources. Anonymous sources are way beyond suspect to me. I tend to believe people more, that I have actually met and spoken with over a period of years. | ||
| Josh_ |
you know, 60% of the statistics you read on the internet are just made up and there are 10 kinds of people in the world. Those who understand binary numbers and those who don't | ||
| Jon |
I value the Anony feature. Remember the sanity that Anony provided during the Uly rumor and hoopla photoshop extravaganza? And he's/she's crushing rumors today as well. It's a good thing. Nobody was more unhappy two days ago when Anony gave a poke at ASBN. But I also understand that engineer types don't necesarily make good judgements regarding people. Additionally, Buell folks have been insulted and mocked by people on various sites and it is irritating. I am quite honestly sick and tired of the comments against Buell...I always have been. Anony's have as much right to get mad back and speak their mind. That's freedome of speech, right? Of course, concise and accurate retorts work better than carpet bombing, but like I said...Engineer types...what can you do? Nothing stops anybody from clocking him back, right? The Anony feature is priceless to me. I am thankful for that participation. Fireman Jim, You are a real champ. Don't take my comments as a challenge. You stand by your opinion. | ||
| Madduck |
I really value true corporate input. We do have to face the fact that Buell has grown tremendously and even the best source within Buell could easily be out of the loop on a new product. XBRR motor developement seems to have been largely done at HD, where it is also being produced. Sure Buell engineers are responsible for the bulk of developemnt, but in a project of that size it is unlikely that one person could know all the details, even less likely that it would be shared on the internet. Wouldn't surprise me if the motor was tested last year in an existing team race bike a number of times either. | ||
| Firemanjim |
No sweat,Jon. I also value the real input and cool,concise comments.It's the snippy,snide,nasty,or abusive comments I object to vehemently,all from behind the armor of anonymity.It's cowardly and not at all the tone we try to set here.Disagree with all your heart and have spirited debate.BUT,leave the childishness,abusiveness, and snotty attitude where it belongs. Act like the adults we claim to be. | ||
| Eeeeek |
I got your back, Jim. There are a few distinctive anonys here, and you have to learn their style to tell them apart. A couple of them are good at dispelling rumors and giving solid advice. At least one other is just a jackass. Keyboard courage is, well, not a good thing. Vik | ||
| Court |
Interesting stuff. | ||
| Medic_2512 |
Mr_cuell, i was just going to post a similiar topic, thank you for beating me to it! Most of the time when Anon posts it seems antagonist, spiteful, childish, and just like Fireman said a little 10 y/o brat. Not like the Buell executive or whoever its supposed to be. So there is nothing set in stone about Anon, we could be talking to a 10y/o bored kid. So i think that the Anon feature serves absolutely no purpose and if anything starts confrentations. Reguarding my 2007 XB post, which i have been getting bashed and beaten up with emails about it, all i did was tell everyone what i was told AND i was brave enough to post it with my name attached. Nothing more and nothing less. Again several years ago when they were rumors about an XB12 and Anon kept saying no way and you`ll never see it. Then in two weeks the XB12 arrived! | ||
| Gentleman_jon |
Personally, I could very easily do without the Anonymous postings. There are two reasons for this point of view. 1. The credibility of these posts is somewhat ambiguous. On the one hand there is the implication of special access to official Buell secrets. On the other hand, the anonymous nature of the post itself, and Court's discontinuance of identity checks, means that the posts may have no credibility whatsoever. 2. This only underscores what I think is a greater problem at Buell, which is the official isolation from their customers. Luckily for us Bad Webbers, we have Court, who provides an extremely useful "semi-official" channel to the factory. Without him, we would be stuck with our local Harley Dealer: not necessarily a very appealing alternative. What makes this all the more frustrating is that Erik Buell himself is very open and helpful when one encounters him in person, and seems to be very interested in how Buell riders feel about their bikes. I think both of these problems could be resolved by having an official Buell channel on Bad Web, so that the factory could communicate to the faithful, and vice versa. Of course, this might take some of the fun of dealing with the wild speculation that appears on the site, the "semi-official non-denials", the bitter recriminations, hopeful reconciliations and other off season drama that so many seem to thrive upon.  Ol' Yaller at rest, while snow and controversy swirls. | ||
| Ryker77 |
people always have a reason to post certain things. EXAMPLE Would you want to own or be a corvette seller. or be a possible vette buyer. 2007 vettes at x price will contain a smaller engine and less power. But if you wait till 2008 you'll get double the engine at less cost. It would be in the best interest of the vette sellers to NOT let buyers KNOW about next years model. | ||
| Anonymous |
Thanks, Jon. It is tough to have to be behind an anony mask because your job depends on it. But that's the way it is. However, there are times when it adds real value to this site. Of course, sometimes a post may be obnoxious, and sometimes that is because it is directed at an individual who has a long history of bitter obnoxious posts of their own. Believe me there are folks who post anonymously who wish they didn't have to. Medic, in your case, which is recent, I can see that the poster, who values their job both for anony feature and from hoping readers of the page aren't misled, gets irritated by the person who told you something not true. I'm sure it wasn't directed at you, but at those who told this BS. Why would that make a real Buell employee upset? Because there may be some folks out there about to buy a bike who decide they will wait for the new model, which won't come. When it doesn't come they will be mad at Buell because: 1) they missed a bunch of riding waiting, 2)now they feel robbed of something they though they were going to get. So the rider and Buell both lose, all because of some guy who wants to pretend he is cool and has the inside line. Maybe that is paranoia, and too much fear of the power of the internet, but hopefully that explains some of it. Certainly people should rise above their fears and not get mean, but it's tough to be part of a small company trying hard against unimaginable odds. There was a directive to ban all posts from employees, which has been relaxed slightly, due to our respect for Badweb. If we get an overwhelming response on Badweb that it should be banned, then it may be emphasized again. Hopefully the good that comes from insider info will outweigh the few petty snarls. But, personally, it just cracks me up when a few vicious backstabbing posters with a history of vilfying Buell, start posting that they are "offended" by anonymous. You know who you are, and so do I, and probably a lot of folks here as well, and quite frankly, your opinion means nothing. | ||
| Chainsaw |
and as such have a certain responsibility to maintain a professional level of courtesy here. I agree. I like the fact that the BadWeb has an inside line to the Mothership, and I believe those anony's should act as professionals. I think it's chicken-shit to talk smack behind anonymity. If you gotta do that, start a public 'alter-ego' profile to post under, or number the Anony's so we can differentiate them between the people we deem credible and professional from the ones we don't. | ||
| Court |
Anonymous posting, in my humble and PERSONAL opinion, is a very valuable feature. It is incumbent upon the participants here to take such information for what it is and weigh the value of the information, or in some cases lack of information, as it pertains to the instant topic. Too often we seem, lately, to dwell on the "who" and nature of the post and important questions go undealt with and unanswered. Buell has a history of taking an unprecedented proactive approach in terms of reaching customers, developing a relationship that value both the friendship and commercial aspects and go to great lengths to ensure Buell customers receive extraordinary service. If you are unfamiliar with what "Extraordinary" means, I can share with you that through "back channels" and while dealing with my own change in jobs, an explosion in a power plant and lots of Daytona and Homecoming planning, I was able to get a couple Buell customers out of tights spots. One fellow who has tried to get his MSO and title mess sorted out for years, now has. Another's Buell will be "right" by the end of next week and, my personal favorite, is the continuing saga of the "Florida Heat Shield" which gave me the chance to team up with Legendary Buell dealer Dave Stueve to ensure his customer waiting for NOTHING. Buell is extraordinary in terms of the customer service it provides and the way the company listens to its customers. Jon Flickinger has much to do with this. Harley-Davidson, who owns Buell, provides the CEO for Buell. In the past, there's been, perhaps with no intent, a lack of willingness to get to bat and a keen awareness that when the Buell gig was over, it was back to the HD group. I once told Rich Teerlink that a huge challenge facing HD was getting the "right mind" at Buell. The example I used is that HD execs, sent out on the "Buell limb" for 18 months, were perhaps less interested in "aggressive branch sawing" associated with some of the Buell cutting edge means, methods and technologies, as they were interested in returning to the "tree" unscathed. If is difficult to take someone who was born in the box, has always lived in the box and send them from the center of the box to the edge of the box with instructions to think "outside the box". The small mind sees this comment as critical; I see it as a simple observation of human behavior. Jon Flickinger came to HD, in 1995, from Ford. He's smart, he's innovative, he's open minded and he has confidence in his leadership ability and his folks ability to follow through on commitments. Even things he may not personally be warm to, he'll listen to and support if the passion and talent is there. This was one of the essential elements necessary to advance the Buell ball down the field. Anonymous posting can be a way to share certain information. Generally it's timing, not a confidence thing. It has been said that "timing is everything", well it is. Some of the things, for instance, that happened last week are not, per se, "secret, but are unwise to discuss at present. Anonymous posters could, as an example, allude to "we got some of what we wanted" things went well”, "we had a good time" and such comments to allow us, the faithful, to know that our "team" is hard at work and will share the balance of the info when the time is right. Lately there have been a couple times when anonymous posters have slapped folks, from the shadows of anonymity, on the noses like puppies. This is not right. But, alas, I've done some unright stuff myself. Times, at present, have many folks strained. Long hours and the stress of not being able to brag about accomplishments. I'd urge that nothing be changed with regard to the anonymous posters right now. I've been doing the Buell online gig for longer than anyone (with the possible exception of Denise) here and times are "in flux". Been here before, will again...as the Buell ship seeks a new level in the moto-ocean. These are great times. Buell is slaying dragons and will slay more within the next 18 months. There was, several years ago, some interest within Harley-Davidson, about me writing a monthly column about Buell on the Buell website. It may be time that we begin to think about taking a higher road and celebrating all the positive stuff we are enjoying. The history of Buell has been pretty neat, but I submit we've seen nothing yet. Times are good. . . see you at the races! Court | ||
| Firemanjim |
So it's alright to stoop to the percieved level of the few "backstabbers" ?It speaks ill of you to say such a thing.Be a better person than those you percieve in this way.So what if a few people talk smack,there are way more here who hold the Buell banner high.I still have my first Buell and will continue to ride and race them for a long time to come.There are always naysayers,so what,it comes with the territory,rise above it and we can all respect that. And there is nothing like a clear and concise rebuttal to take the wind out of someones sails.Works way better than the namecalling which as you can see,tends to backfire. | ||
| Jlnance |
Buell has a history of taking an unprecedented proactive approach in terms of reaching customers, developing a relationship that value both the friendship and commercial aspects and go to great lengths to ensure Buell customers receive extraordinary service. Very true. Thats why I own one of their bikes.  Perhaps the next proactive step will be for Buell to allow their employees to post under their own names. I'm sure the lawyers would flip out, but for the rest of us, it would be great. | ||
| Medic_2512 |
Well said Fireman. I think we all should be very cautious when listening to the Anon posters, and in the end we`d be better off without them. | ||
| Dbird29 |
I am offended that no one pays copyright fees on the "Buell Haters©" phrase. Keep the Anonymous feature and maybe have an etiquette committee review them for offensive words. Heck, mail Buell labeled Kleenex to anybody that really needs to cry.  (That's a joke for those easily offended.)  | ||
| Court |
>>>>Perhaps the next proactive step will be for Buell to allow their employees to post under their own names. Yeah. . . well, we did that. Circa 1995 and it was a ball. If you think you've seen heated debate here, you've seen nothing my friend. Sometime mention the name Steve Biegler to Erik. We used to have the internet catfights or all time. In fact, as I'm sure all of you know the first Buell owners web chat site was, you guessed it. . . at www.buell.com. (please forgive reference to non-sponsor website) It was the recall of the S-2 fairing stay and ensuring discussion that brought that to a halt in about 22 minutes. Those were the days! For my $0.02 I'm much more disturbed about ambiguous posters than anonymous posters.  | ||
| Eeeeek |
What makes someone a vicious backstabber? Saying that there are bikes that handle better than an XB12R? Complaining that ones own personal Buell left him stranded multiple times? Running a site that has served as home for the most infamous Buell haters? The funny thing is I could be riding at a track, oblivious to anything on the internet and be attributed to something negatie by some jackass posting as anonymous and have no idea until someone directs me to the thread. I, personally, have tried to stick to facts and keep a balanced view of things. I beleive I have done a good job of this; however, negativity is still attributed to me on this site. This is why I have, for the most part, removed myself from this site. When I take the time to type something here, I know it is going to be scrutinized and probably attacked. I am careful to only say things that I believe to be correct. If I'm proven wrong, I accept that. Hell, I often take someone's word for it without requiring proof. At least one anony should do himself a favor and just not even look at the site. It's obvious that things some people say make his blood boil and he just can't control himself. He launches petty, childish attacks at people and has to assume zero accountability. I don't give a crap how wrong or obnoxious Cecil, for example, is being. We know who that is while the anony who replies back may be you or him or him. Fact of the matter is that the anony who sits back and launches these attacks takes away from the other anonys. I, personally, can't understand why the different anonys can't establish accounts with blake that still don't reveal their names. Who is "eeeeek," anyway? Had I not put my name in my profile, I could just be a 14 year old boy from China for all that anyone knows. That's one of the reasons I liked ol' Anonymous R. Vik (Message edited by eeeeek on February 12, 2006) | ||
| Buell_892 |
I think this is getting out of control. I love to come and read/post all day long on here, but now after reading all of this I just sorta dont even wanna open a thread anymore. It sounds stupid, but i thought we were all here for the same reason, and now we cant even continue to enjoy the common ground that we are all here for. ugh... | ||
| Bake |
Like all internet forums I visit, I learn to seperate the wheat from the chaff. If I don't like or beleive what a poster says I just move on. It's seldom I put any stock into what an annony says but let them post so we can decide if we subscribe to his/her theories for ourselves. (Message edited by bake on February 12, 2006) | ||
| Josh_ |
>The funny thing is I could be riding at a track, Ok, that's it. There's 2 inches of snow outside and it's coming down hard ... and you could be on a track riding and instead are "here" ! Damn. is "I hate you" too strong? This Afternoon: Scattered snow showers. Mostly cloudy, with a high around 31. Northwest wind around 10 mph. Chance of precipitation is 40%. Tonight: Partly cloudy, with a low around 17. West wind between 7 and 10 mph. Monday: Partly cloudy, with a high around 43. West wind between 7 and 15 mph, with gusts as high as 26 mph. Monday Night: Partly cloudy, with a low near 28. Southwest wind between 8 and 11 mph. | ||
| Anonymous |
Maybe everyone should just post as Anon! | ||
| Danny |
Hmm. Could the anonymous feature be removed, but factory insiders could send their intended reply through a custodian? The required information/rebuttal could be posted and any petty bickering ™ could be edited out, or flatly refused to be posted, by the custodian. Want to call someone a stupid, buell-hating, know-nothing know-it-all? Fine, use your real name. Remind me to tell you sometime ™ about the time Harley Corporate threatened to pull my owner’s Harley dealership for something I posted on BadWeb, under my own name, BTW. Who woulda thunk that a required “ethics in engineering” class could be used to offer a “Creative Middle Way” to a problem on a motorcycle board? 12 weeks until BSME, Danny 95 S2 02 V-Strom 06 WhoTheHellKnows | ||
| Phillyblast |
2 inches? I spit on your petty 2 inches. 14 inches and still flurrying. 'Course that means I have to make a phone call and see if any progress was made friday night getting the dune buggy running. Oh, and Vik - what Josh_ said. |
