| Author |
Message |
    
Blake
| | Posted on Friday, February 03, 2006 - 06:03 pm: | 
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Yes. Please read your email. |
Wyckedflesh
| | Posted on Saturday, February 04, 2006 - 02:04 am: |
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Bobbyhead, what I had to add, has already been stated many many many times both on this board and on Buell's website and in interviews of Erik and Willie G. Buell has its own engineers, there is a sharing of knowledge back and forth, but when it comes to Buell products, its designed by Buell with Buell engineers. H-D may build the assembled product, but that is like GM using Isuzu engines and Chrysler using Mitsubishi engines. To claim the XBRR was designed by H-D is just not accurate. What H-D gets the most out of the deal is in mutual castings that can be applied to their products. When it comes to a Sportster FI, I would be willing to bet it will be based off the H-D FI system rather then the Buell FI system. It is a misconception to think that all the engine R&D comes out of H-D's engineers. |
Bobbyhead
| | Posted on Saturday, February 04, 2006 - 10:19 am: |
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Wyckedflesh/Mikel, I said the XBRR motor was designed by Harley Davidson Engineers(not Buell), check your email...you have a message. |
Mr_cuell
| | Posted on Saturday, February 04, 2006 - 10:30 am: |
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Bobby/Blake
Whats up with the post that got deleted? Why does that have to be a secret?
If its true is it bad form to make it known? |
Bobbyhead
| | Posted on Saturday, February 04, 2006 - 10:34 am: |
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LOL- thats what I asked Blake ! But he told me I didn't have permission to post the email... |
Gonen60
| | Posted on Saturday, February 04, 2006 - 10:41 am: |
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permission? |
Bobbyhead
| | Posted on Saturday, February 04, 2006 - 10:42 am: |
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Permission from the Engineer who sent the email. |
Josh_
| | Posted on Saturday, February 04, 2006 - 10:43 am: |
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Get the engineer to post it here.
My first thought was "someone's losing his job" |
Bobbyhead
| | Posted on Saturday, February 04, 2006 - 10:49 am: |
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Btw- the Engineer's name was never included in the post, but several others were. Only H-D or Buell insiders could piece together who sent the email.
But whats wrong with giving credit to those who actually DID the work ? |
Mr_cuell
| | Posted on Saturday, February 04, 2006 - 10:56 am: |
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I can second that idea - if it is public info, then have the writer post it. If he is unwilling, then Blake made the right call. |
Bobbyhead
| | Posted on Saturday, February 04, 2006 - 11:03 am: |
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You know it's ironic, the same thing was posted on my Harley boards and they all reveled in it, and it's probably going to be responsible for more Harley riders attending the Daytona 200 than any time in the last 20 years. But you Buell folks are so touchy.
The only reason I ever came to this site was to gain info about my wife's Blast. But sheeesh ! Maybe I shouldn't contribute anything at all ?
Bobby |
Blake
| | Posted on Saturday, February 04, 2006 - 12:21 pm: |
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Get your friend's permission and back it goes. Have him email me directly. Don't know why anyone would want to put their "friend's" job in jeopardy without first obtaining their permission. You sure he's your friend? Looks to me like you may be trying to get someone fired. |
Davegess
| | Posted on Saturday, February 04, 2006 - 06:24 pm: |
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Here's the skinnny on Buell motors.
First all Buell motors are built on the HD assembly line.
Second in the early days Buell bought stock Sportster motors and put a Supertrapp muffler on and a low restriction air cleaner. Then, some time after the first HD buy in of 49%, Buell got an engine department. Now here is the odd thing the engineer who was in charge of the Buell drivetrain was and remained an HD employee. However he reproted to Erik Beull not someone at Capitol drive. Erik had an engine guy working for him. This team along with some others at Capital Drive and in East Troy made up the Buell engine team and cam up with the early Buell engines that had modified heads and flywheels to suit the sport nature of the Buell.
As Buell grew this engine department grew. Some of the employees were HD some Buell BUT they all reported to a Buell boss.
Buell concieved and designed these engines. The engine team was responsible for achieving Eriks vision and hitting his goals. Early on the engine were subjected to HD's endurance testing but this was replaced by a Buell specific one pretty quickly.
The RR mill may have been designed by a bunch of HD employees, and believe me not everyone on that team was an HD employee (on many of these teams the team members don't know who is a Harley employee and who is a Buell employee) BUT it was designed under the direction of Buell people.
As an aside a Buell person can be an HD employee or a Buell Employee, if they are assigned to Buell they are usually Buell people in very short order regardless of what 401-k they contribute to.
The Blast was designed by a group of mostly HD employees but is cleary a Buell design. Erik and his people directed the effort and made sure it went in the direction they wanted. Outside pepel worked on it but the guys who lived in th etrailer behind the factory in East Troy got it done.
So to sun it up, Buell design their own engines. Often HD employees are working on this design BUT th eoveral goal and direction come from th eguy wit his name on the building.
After they are designe HD builds them under a contract with Buell. Buell is in essence a customer of the engine ASSEMBLY plant, having them build engines designed at Buell. |
Wyckedflesh
| | Posted on Saturday, February 04, 2006 - 06:31 pm: |
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Bobbyhead, I sent you a second email in response. You will understand when you read both emails why I spoke the way I did. |
Court
| | Posted on Sunday, February 05, 2006 - 09:51 am: |
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Bobbyhead:
I just had the opportunity to read this. Although I appreciate your enthusiasm in defending your point, most the information is inaccurate.
Dave Gess's post above pretty well lay's out the human Venn diagram that explains how you mix the Gary's.
Buell uses several outsourcing houses for hurry-up drawings, so by the way does Chevrolet. For instance a couple years ago when they were screaming to introduce new developments on the Corvette engine, someone had forgotten to design an alternator mount. The job was outsourced to one of the 24/7 places that can turn around month long project in days by having LOTS of folks (more than Buell would hire) work 24 hours a day, in shifts.
A very smart and very nice lady now married to another Buell employee, pretty much drove, on HD behalf, much of the P3 project. My involvement was limited to test riding and casual observation.
I was, however, present when in that small room crammed full of stuff, the rear cylinder was removed, plated over and the process of fiddling and trial and error began.
The fellow, most responsible for the engine, and I became quite good friends as we were both riding Buell factory "mules" and had the habit of leaving the factory late at night and riding a long distance is some fairly crummy conditions. They used to laugh at use putting our gear on and leaving the building with our tanks bags when it was a torrential downpour.
Your information is, if nothing else, entertaining and fun. It is highly inaccurate, I suspect written by PR folks. |
Court
| | Posted on Sunday, February 05, 2006 - 09:54 am: |
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Bobbyhead:
If you want to send the e-mail to me I'll tell you simply if it's accurate or inaccurate.
I has serious doubts that it's genuine.
I've seen two HD folks walked from the building and at least one HD employee was escorted out for comments on Badweb.
Court |
Court
| | Posted on Sunday, February 05, 2006 - 12:42 pm: |
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Bobbyhead:
I read your e-mails and. . . well, it's pretty much "no news".
You are correct in that all named have HD on their paychecks. That, by the way, is true for a number of folks within Buell, including I'd hasten to point out Mr. Jon Flickinger, President of Buell.
The discussion, "is it Buell or Harley" becomes quite an exercise in semantics and will bring out, no doubt, some of Badweb's craftiest purveyors of the art.
I'll make it simple. If Erik Buell and Buell Motorcycle didn't exist....neither would the engine. The team of HD employees assigned to the project did precisely what Buell ask them to do. I know all the folks you named expect one and they are die-hard fans of the AMERICAN DREAM. They are also very talented and will be producing similarly amazing results on the current project they are deployed on.
I would offer two shreds of advise...they are that and nothing more. Your engineer pal has really done nothing wrong. In my opinion the e-mail is a bit pompous and detracts from the "team" thing by inaccurately making it sound like a single person is more responsible than the rest. If that were true, I can point to the name on the list.
In addition...it's a tad like me taking photos of the Brooklyn Bridge. Even though I wasn't a terrorist, it sure brought an excited group of detectives to the front door of my house. I'd advise your friend to use great caution.
Harley-Davidson takes this type of thing as serious as a heart attack. There are things I learn by accident and I've grown quite comfy "self neuralizing".
Ride safe and enjoy your Buell.
Court |
Blake
| | Posted on Sunday, February 05, 2006 - 10:51 pm: |
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I've grown quite comfy "self neuralizing".
Court, your typos are much too amusing. We may need to dub you the "Archie Bunker of BadWeB" or "ABOB" for short. |
Davegess
| | Posted on Sunday, February 05, 2006 - 10:55 pm: |
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"Archie Bunker of BadWeB" or "ABOB"
NOW THAT WOULD MAKE A GREAT T-SHIRT!
Bobby just in case it got lost in the translation, HD has been know to fire guys for less that what you friend put in that email. I would be careful. |
Sgthigg
| | Posted on Monday, February 06, 2006 - 03:25 am: |
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Ok, I will ask my question like this.
If there is more buell in a sportster nowadays. (so I have read in others opions)
What is it that is more buell thats going in sportster? |
Diablobrian
| | Posted on Monday, February 06, 2006 - 05:08 am: |
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Buell developed the motor that is currently in the sportster. Look at a tuber motor and compare
it to an XB motor. you can see obvious differences. the cases are shorter front to back, as a starting point.
This is the same as the differences between a last generation sportster motor and the current model.
H-D let Buell develop the motor and test it's reliability and performance in the XB line before adopting
it as the "new" sportster motor |
M1combat
| | Posted on Monday, February 06, 2006 - 11:14 am: |
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"You know it's ironic, the same thing was posted on my Harley boards and they all reveled in it, and it's probably going to be responsible for more Harley riders attending the Daytona 200 than any time in the last 20 years. But you Buell folks are so touchy. "
That's because the Buell community has a much stronger emotional tie to both BMC and to it's employees. The bikes are responsible for it. |
Blake
| | Posted on Friday, January 11, 2008 - 05:50 pm: |
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bump |
Court
| | Posted on Friday, January 11, 2008 - 07:01 pm: |
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I've grown quite comfy "self neuralizing".
Funny. . . I don't recall saying that.
POOF |
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