| Author | Message | ||
     Fzrider |
Just called a Mobil (well Esso in Canada) distributor in my area. Asked them where I could purchase retail Mobil 1 15/50 and Mobil 1 gear 75/90 because I would like to dump HD Syn3 from my bike. Well the lady on the phone started to argue with me that these oils are not for motorcycle use bla bla bla... She was trying to sell me 'real' motorcycle oil. Am I missing some thing here or she is just misinformed? | ||
| Smoothrod |
Make sure you ask for the Mobile 1 V-twin, its moto specific. The gear oil is just that gear oil it works great in mine. (Message edited by smoothrod on January 26, 2006) | ||
| Fzrider |
Well, what a lot of BadWebers have suggested is to use the Mobil 1 15/50 not the Mobil 1 V-Twin. Am I confusing both oils? | ||
| Typeone |
i might be crazy but i'm not too fond of the M1 V-Twin stuff. bike seemed to run cooler with M1 15/50 in it, judging by the fan running with similar temp days. not too scientific, heh. after i use up the V-Twin stuff i'm going back to 15/50. | ||
| Whodom |
Well, what a lot of BadWebbers have suggested is to use the Mobil 1 15/50 not the Mobil 1 V-Twin. Am I confusing both oils? Fzrider, yes, many BadWebbers have successfully used Mobil-1 15W-50 (auto) synthetic in their Buells. The Mobil-1 V-twin 20W-50 (motorcycle specific) oil is almost twice the price. Naturally, Mobil is going to recommend their more expensive product since they went to the trouble to develop it. That said, IMHO the Mobil-1 V-twin is measurably better oil. It is a 100% "true" synthetic whereas the auto oils now allegedly contain Group III basestocks. This means the V-twin oil is somewhat more resistant to high temperature breakdown. Is it worth ~1.6 times the price? That's pretty much a judgment call unless you know someone with a degree in tribology who can look at detailed analyses for both oils and tell you which one is better and why. If you REALLY want to delve into the intricacies of oil, spend some time at http://www.bobistheoilguy.com browsing the forums. | ||
| Ryker77 |
you can order Amsoil v-twin oil for a decent price. | ||
| Twintour |
more on motorcycle and car oils. http://www.xs11.com/stories/mcnoil94.htm if you want my two cents, thermal breakdown is the the bad guy. normal oils starts breakdown at about 375 degrees, synthetics at 475 degrees. v-twins temps between 180 to 230 . stop and think for a second. oil also start breakdown over time at normal temps, somewhere between 8000 to 15000 miles. we all change are oil at 2000 to 3000 miles. stop and think again! at 2000 to 3000 mile changes you can any oil. i run amsoil 20/50 synthetic car oil . one its cheaper than motorcycle brands and two it does run cooler. before marketing demanded motorcycle labeled oils, amsoil oils are for all engines . they had to market motorcycle oil with the masses, you know it is about making money. on the back of the auto amsoil bottle it still reads for motorcycle ,they forgot to change the label when they came out with motorcycle oil. oops! | ||
| Nasty73z |
If you think that our v-twin temp. ranges from 180-230, then you've got a big surprise coming. That's what my SV ran at. Go borrow a laser temp gun and bounce it off the motor. Why do you think Buell doesn't provide a temp gauge? 'Cause we would all be freaked the f'k out. | ||
| Bigj |
The term "synthetic" doesn't really mean a whole lot any more. There are three different groups of basestocks that can be called "synthetic" that are really different. I think if you wanted the best bang for the buck for your Buell(after the warranty, of course), you'd run Maxima Maxum4 Synthetic Blend 20w-50. Available from Chaparral for about $18 the gallon. Change every 2500. (Message edited by bigj on January 26, 2006) | ||
| Reepicheep |
LOL!
That's a quote for the book! I would follow it up with:
| ||
| Interex2050 |
Here is an interesting thing... I talked to my dealers service tech today. He actually recommended that I switch to synthetic... so I am hoping it won't be a warranty issue. | ||
| Twintour |
I know head temps get high, all air cooled motor run hotter. Take laser temp gun and point it down the fill hole of your swingarm of your ridden bike . oil temp should be around 180 to 230 . now sit in traffic on hot day oil temps 250 to 300. head temp ,like you said you will freak out. get moving! hit the backroads, skip the traffic that we got the buell in the first place. | ||
| Interex2050 |
Now the question remains if I should use the M1 V-twin in both engine and primary, or M1 V-twin in the engine and 75w/90 gear oil in primary. Then comes the dilemma, how well would the gear oil get along with the clutch (but Mobile claims that the gear oil will work with limited slip diffs). | ||
| Typeone |
M1 75/90 gear oil works great in the primary, no question there. but i think with all higher-end lubricants... it really comes down to what you're comfy with. M1 V-Twin or 15/50 'auto' oil will most likely do just fine in your engine. if you're still wondering or nervous... just run the Harley syn stuff. it'll do fine too and maybe it'll give you that extra piece of mind that all is well. for some reason i really like the M1 15/50 in the engine and 75/90 gear oil in the primary. she runs cool and shifts well. papa's happy. | ||
| Interex2050 |
Well the thing is that... the harley stuff I trust as much as I would trust tap-water as an engine lubricant. I suppose then its time to "stock up" 6 quarts V-twin 3 quarts 75w/90 2 K&N kn-177 oil filters should last me 2 oil changes thanks a bunch btw... sorry about "hi-jacking" this thread (couldn't help myself, the chance was calling to me) | ||
| Whodom |
3 quarts 75w/90 Intertex2050: Most guys go twice as long on primary changes as they do on engine oil changes, but whatever floats your boat. 2 quarts should do you for 2 primary oil changes as it will not quite hold 1 quart. See previous posts here about the problems overfilling the primary causes with poor shifting. | ||
| Typeone |
See previous posts here about the problems overfilling the primary causes with poor shifting. very important note. squirtin' a full quart in there might leave you scratchin' your head why she no shift so good. | ||
| Skully |
if you want my two cents, thermal breakdown is the the bad guy. normal oils starts breakdown at about 375 degrees, synthetics at 475 degrees. v-twins temps between 180 to 230 I agree with your intent but not the operating temps. I have the Technoresearch VDSTS software that in addition to troubleshooting and TPS resets, it allows you look at operating temperatures. After a typical ride on a 70dF day, my rear cylinder head temp read 350dF. I have been running Mobil 1 15w-50 in my bike for a total of nearly 70,000 miles with no problems what so ever. That being said, I think any of the name brand synthetic oils including Amsoil are very good. I chose Mobil 1 because of the number of automobile manufacturers that ship their cars new from the factory with Mobil 1 in the crankcase and its availability. I can be 1000 miles from home and stop at Wal-Mart and purchase a quart if needed. Hope this helps, Keith | ||
| Interex2050 |
Thanks for the tips... the oil level should just "touch" the spring correct? | ||
| Alexfiggy |
the manuel states the trany holds 32 oz thats a bottle of 75-90 | ||
| Skyguy |
Alex is right I just read in the service manual that the primary takes a quart. Something I need to know? | ||
| Whodom |
I believe the manual means if the transmission/primary is DRY, it takes a full quart. You will never get all the old oil out so if you put a full quart back in, it will usually be slightly overfull. | ||
| Bomber |
WHo's got it right -- there's a buncha crook and nannies that'll hold up to a couple of oz easily in the gearbox/priamry -- use an entire quart in a new or new-ly rebuild mill with nothing in it, and your fine -- put a quart into an in-service engine, though, and you will be overfilled, and they don't like it much | ||
| M1combat |
The primary takes a full quart... IF... you go ahead and level the bike while draining. If not, you'll have a bit left in the bottle. 1qt is perfect every time of you level and let it all drain. | ||
| Alexfiggy |
look the guys at the dealer ship use all kinds of tricks they fill your tranny through your chain inspection cover not the clutch plate cover. | ||
| Blake |
Mobil 1 15W50 works great and is indeed a full synthetic oil. Yes there are different types of synthetic oil. Some folks here are not relating the whole story. Bottom line is that any synthetic oil is devoid of the less desirable molecules found mixed in which conventional oil. | ||
| Chadhargis |
I ordered some Redline 20W60 "HD" V-Twin synthetic oil. It's the same price as all their oil and says it's designed for "American V-Twin" engines. Hence the "HD" on the bottle. Says it flows better than conventional 20W50. | ||
| Fullpower |
what has motivated you to pour 60 weight oil in your Buell? Is there some instinctive feeling that 60 is "better" than 50 because it is a larger number? please understand the concept of viscosity as pertains to an engine, a certain viscosity is REQUIRED to lubricate/float/protect the bearings, etc. MORE viscosity is not BETTER, it is very likely not desireable. MORE viscosity= MORE friction= MORE heat. also MORE delay for lubrication at start up. | ||
| Diablobrian |
"Another way of looking at multi-vis oils is to think of a 20W-50 as a 20 weight oil that will not thin more than a 50 weight would when hot." shamelessly lifted from http://www.atis.net/oil_faq.html try to stay as close as you can to the factory recommended weight. Oil that is too thick is not good for your motor. Neither is oil that's too thin.} | ||
| Rocketman |
Time and time again on the BadWeB we hear the synthetic oil debate. I know very little about oil, but I have experience with using the stuff nearly every working day of my life. Last week I serviced a nearly two year old Audi A4 1.9TDi. It had come from the dealer brand new with Audi / VW's 'long life' service option. In a nutshell, this means the engine has been filled with a fully synthetic oil specifically designed (allegedly) for the manufacturer and for their 20000 mile long life service interval use. Therefore, their less expensive oil is used for the lesser option service, intended for not such frequent high mileage use you see. I bought in a 4 ltr tub of this specially formulated oil, and on the tub it had VW and their service spec written all over the label. Yes it was stupidly expensive. More even than Mobil 1. I could have used a much much cheaper synthetic oil for the service, as the spec on the tub was in compliance with the VW 'long life' requirement, but the spec numbers didn't all match those on the VW specific tub. I played safe on behalf of my customer (yes I made a lot less profit doing so :-) ) and went by the book. Just today I serviced a 10 month old MGTF 1.8 with the Rover K series engine option. Mobil 1 recommended. That's what it got. Back to Buell. I use to run on Mobil 1 4T. That's the four stroke motorcycle specific oil. The Mobil 1 V twin stuff was introduced to my area / market at a later time. Last year when I got the S1W rebuilt I discovered my local Yamaha dealer, the only stockist of M1 4T, had stopped stocking it. After much searching I too opted for the automotive Mobil 1 15/50 Racing. One thing everyone should get through into their thick skulls is Mobil 1 is the real deal. That much over the years, I have researched. For me personally, the highest endorsement for M1 came from Paul Morgan, as in the 'mor', of Ilmor Engineering. Sadly Paul was killed in a flying accident shortly after I attended one of his speeches, but M1 was his choice for all his vehicles, including a CX500 and a Vincent Black Shadow, and ALL of the Ilmor engined Maclaren Formula 1 cars. Yes the F1 cars use exactly what you or I can buy off the shelf. Another thing about M1 synthetics. No matter which specification you buy they all pretty much start out the same way, then they are adjusted accordingly to their designed operation, be it automotive, V twin or whatever else. The point here is this. It wouldn't matter a toss which formulation you used in your Buell engine as there is nothing in any Mobil 1 that could possibly do any harm. Obviously though, you would need to watch the viscosity range depending on your use etc, but in an emergency (or urgency), if all else fails when you're stuck in the middle of nowhere, or at the race track, and in need of M1 oil, even the diesel specific oil is good to use. Overall, automotive, V twin and 4T Mobil 1's are as good as one another, and it's my belief that the 4T and V twin specifics are simply the automotive M1 on steroids. How much better the steroids work I further believe is a mute point when plain old Mobil 1 synthetic is that bloody good anyway. I haven't seen or read it for a while now, but some years back I think it was American Iron that ran a very conclusive test on synthetic oils. Mobil 1 came out tops by a long margin. There was another brand that did almost equally as well, but I forgot which brand. As for transmission fluids, I'm an advocate these days for using ATF Dexron III type lubricants rather than synthetic trans or motor oils. Rocket | ||
| Fullpower |
well stated rocket. diablobri: the 20W is a particular viscosity unit, measured at 0 degrees Fahreheit. the "50" with NO W attached is a DIFFERENT viscosity unit, and measured at the temperature of 210 degrees Fahreneit. DIFFERENT UNITS, taken at Different temperatures. so it is innaccurate to state that a 20W-50 "is like a 20 weight oil. it is not. a 20W-50 is a 50 weight oil, that can pass a low temperature viscosity specification. | ||
| Rocketman |
Why thank you FullP. I wasn't sure anyone would agree with me on this one, we've debated it for that lonnnggggg. Rocket | ||
| Bugman |
Neither. She is just trying to sell you the company recommended oil for your particular vehicle.. Just go with your instincts and use the 15W-50. I used it for years in my Evo and rode it over 100K miles. | ||
| Dapope |
I've seen this discussion so many times about the gear oil in the primary but every time I look at The mobil 1 web site it says NOT Recommended for transmissions where engine oil is recommended. What am I missing. http://www.mobil.com/USA-English/Lubes/PDS/GLXXENPVLMOMobil1_Synthetic_Gear_Lubr icant_LS_75W-90.asp | ||
| Rocketman |
Lots of motorcycles from Japan for example, run multiplate clutches wet within the crankcase of the engine. This means the engine oil is shared with the transmission, and the clutch. I pointed out earlier, my local Yamaha dealer was seeing problems with customer bikes, particularly the R1, when using Mobil 1. Some owners were experiencing clutch slip, and some clutches will slip, like some kevlar plated ones for example, because they don't work with fully synthetic oils. I'd say Mobil are playing safe on their website. Rocket | ||
| Starter |
I'm going to have my say. M1 15W50 not a problem from where I stand, 4T or Automotive who cares. Some stuff goes in the Buell, Mitsubishi and Ford in my garage. M1 V-Twin, overpriced in my market are nearly 2x the price. As for the M1 75W90, the pricks sold out on us in Aust and renamed it "Synthetic Gear Lubricant". Mobil tells me its the same stuff but the problem is it took nearly 3 weeks to get an answer from them cause the bottle don't specify a viscosity no more and the person on the other end of the phone knew little more than what was spelt out in their binder of sale brouchers. | ||
| Rocketman |
I had a similar thing with Mobil in the UK a few years ago. The woman I spoke with on the phone, she was based at a Port Talbot refinery, who assured me she was highly qualified in things oil, and knew Mobil products inside out, further assured me Mobil didn't make a specific motorcycle oil. I'd been using 4T for some time. Rocket |
