| Author | Message | ||
     Blake |
$15 to $20 for mounting and balancing is about right if you carry the wheel in. The $36 is about right if you simply drop off the bike, wheels attached. If you call ahead and bargain on the tire price, most parts guys will significantly reduce their price on tires. I always say something like, "I can get the tire for $110 delivered to my door. I'd like to give you the business but your price is just way too high." They will usually come down to within $20. They are not able to compete with mail order sale prices, but I like to give them my business. | ||
| Reepicheep |
I went to a friend who runs a UJM shop to get my rear replaced. He did a good job, but the pully / wheel combo was longer then any other wheel he had seen and he had some pain and suffering with his spin balancer hardware to get it set up. He worked it out, but it was an issue. So they will probably work it out, but be aware that they are just a little difference then UJM's. I may try and do the next one myself. How good a job does a static balance do? Seems like I could just put the wheel on the axle and make a static balancing stand pretty easily, and I expect I could break the bead with a big vise I have in the basement, or with a strategically placed floor jack and some immovable object (i.e. my Saturn  ). Tire irons can't be more then a few bucks. Bill | ||
| Shazam |
I agree with blake completely....in that,I like to support local business' that support my habits. I am willing to pay a "little" more for this as well. I also like having someone behind a counter who knows me and can help when I run into problems. I like to have someone to vent on when things don't go correctly and don't want to have ship/reship parts and such when a mistake is made by one party or another. It is a lot easier for people to tell you "no" by phone. Bill - on a firebolt having your tires perfectly balanced is important (I would say more-so than other bikes) due to the fact that the suspension is so responsive to different conditions. one of the things you may not notice until you're traveling at the speed of light, but important none the less. I always have mine spin balanced! | ||
| Hootowl |
I am considering doing my own tires too. I have been to a couple of dealers in Houston, and they charge $30 if you bring in the wheel, and $60 if you bring in the bike. HD of The Woodlands actually charged me for 1.2 hours ($72) That's almost as much as I paid for the tire, so I am also wondering if a static balance is good enough. The rims aren't that wide, so it probably doesn't matter which side the weight is on, and they put the weights as close to center line on the rim as they can get them anyway. Opinions? Facts? | ||
| Road_Thing |
I was told by a tech at an independent shop (who drag races an S2 and who I consider to be very knowledgeable on Buells) that in his experience, the imbalance that exists in a tire/wheel combination is mostly in the wheel. He said that as long the previous tire/wheel combo was balanced, and assuming you line up the dot on the new tire with the valve stem on the wheel, re-balancing the new tire is generally unnecessary. It's worked for me, so far. YMMV r-t | ||
| X1glider |
Nope RT. Tires are molded and how they cool when released from the mold will determine where the imbalances are. Spots could be high or low and air pockets created by the injection process could cause softnesses and hardnesses, etc. The rim is the one thing that doesn't change when it's time for a new tire. Because each tire will always be imperfect there's no point in balancing the rim either, will it help? Hard to tell. It might make balancing easier and require the use of less weights. I've had BFG all terrain TAs that were off by 4 0z. Yikes! Jeff, the race tire guys at the track static balance too, nobody seems to complain about that method. The tires that I have found to go out of balance the easiest are those with very deep treads. FI, the Dunlop K501s I had on the Hog once made me think I was riding a 5" stroke shovel that firing out of sequence. | ||
| Ken01mp |
i can say from extensive experience in the automotive field that balance is very dependent on the tire. there is a tactic known as oem matching, where the imbalances in the tire are matched to the imbalances of the wheel, and can cause dramatic decreases in the amount of weight needed, but that is more relevent in the car and truck tire industry, whereas motorcycle tires have much shorter sidewalls and are made to closer tolerances. in short, you balance the assembly, not just the tire, or just the rim, as all have variances. | ||
| Aaron |
I static balanced the wheels on the LSR bike. No problems at 208mph, but if you're planning to go above that, you may want to spin balance it  Seriously, a big part of the equation is the care taken by the person doing the balancing and how hard he's trying to get it perfect. That has much more to do with the result than the machine used. | ||
| Blake |
Are you serious? You really didn't spin balance the LSR wheels/tires? You are kidding right? Well, you knew the rear was probably okay from the dyno runs at least. RAM air? | ||
| Henrik |
I understand from a track/race experienced friend of mine, that spin balancing can get you as close as 5g of tolerance, where as static balancing can get you to 3g of tolerance. I think the big advantage to spin balancing for a shop is time and experience. Less of both is needed to get the job done. I picked up a static balancer and have done 4 wheels since - pretty easy, just take your time. No problems on the track bike up to about 125 mph. For ease of balancing, just make sure to get the dot on the tire in the right spot (opposite the valve ??). Henrik | ||
| Blake |
I guess my worry is that a 100% static balanced wheel could theoretically be WAY out of balance dynamically. But, since most of the mass is at or near the rim on a motorcycle wheel assy, the static method ends up being a pretty good pseudo dynamic balance. | ||
| Aaron |
Here's a shocker for you: Crim ran 180 without even balancing the wheels at all! | ||
| Mbsween |
Henrik/Aaron, which balancer did you get/use? Aaron, I rarely get above 120, unless I ride out of an airplane  , I believe static balancing will work fine. Thanks for the proof of concept. I'm looking at the one from handy industries anyone have experience with that one? How about anything thats cheaper? Since I'm planning to getinto the whole tire changing thing how about recommendations for bead breakers, tire irons etc. Thanks Matt | ||
| Jim_Witt |
Speaking of tires and rims, is there tire growth (like diameter) in LSR racing like there is in drag racing? Are there restriction on rims? Would there be an advantage in having a rim with a smooth hub cap on both sides? Curious, -JW:> | ||
| Pammy |
We've had both, spin balancer and static balancer. We still have the static balancer. | ||
| Aaron |
Matt, mine is made by Metzeler, right out of the DS catalog. Works good. Also have a bead breaker (JC Whitney). Changing tires is a PITA but I'd still rather do it myself. Jim, on Q1, no comment. Ping me off line if you want to know. On Q2, wheels must be cross ventilated. | ||
| Anonymous |
Ken01mp got it right "...in the automotive field...there is a tactic known as oem matching, where the imbalances in the tire are matched to the imbalances of the wheel, and can cause dramatic decreases in the amount of weight needed..." OEM automotive wheels have a sticker on the rim that lines up wiht the dot on the tire for a better match. Same thing on the XB, there is a sticker inside the rim that should be lined up with the dot of the tire for less weight. The valve stem is not always the heavy spot, but the sticker marks it for you. Per the XB factory service manual (Part # 99493-03Y): No more than one oz weight on the front wheel, no more than two oz on the rear. Also, there's a note, all weight on the front MUST be on the right (rotor) side of the rim. Final note, make sure anyone who removes a rear XB wheel takes the axle out first to remove tension off the belt, and don't let them kink or bend the belt. | ||
| Hootowl |
Quote: "I was told by a tech at an independent shop (who drag races an S2 and who I consider to be very knowledgeable on Buells) that in his experience, the imbalance that exists in a tire/wheel combination is mostly in the wheel. He said that as long the previous tire/wheel combo was balanced, and assuming you line up the dot on the new tire with the valve stem on the wheel, re-balancing the new tire is generally unnecessary. " RT, The dealer who put my rear tire on told me the same thing. They didn't have the proper shaft yet for their spin balancer (PM Wheel) and since I was replacing the tire with the same type tire, they said it wouldn't be a problem. Seems fine to me, but I don't run much over 208mph usually. | ||
| Court |
>>>>He said that as long the previous tire/wheel combo was balanced, and assuming you line up the dot on the new tire with the valve stem on the wheel, re-balancing the new tire is generally unnecessary. I **THINK** the valve stem goes OPPOSITE the dot, does it not? | ||
| Spiderman |
NO line the dot up with the stem. | ||
| Road_Thing |
If I didn't know the tech in question pretty well, I'd be inclined to believe either: a) that he was too lazy to balance the new tire, or b) that he didn't have, or didn't know how to operate, the appropriate balancing equipment. But, I know the tech better than that, and I believe that HE believes what he told me! Whether it's absolutely true, I can't say, but in road_thing's normally subsonic world, I have had no tire balancing issues after mounting new tires without re-balancing. Like I said, YMMV, especially if you habitually run at very high speeds! r-t | ||
| Henrik |
Static Balancer: I (as ususal ) did a bunch of research, and fund many really nice options out there. I was tempted by more fancy gadgets, but ended up with a Handy balancer. Decent price, ok workmanship, a bubble level and feet that adjust. The first one I received had a cone that was out of true - i.e. it wobbled when I spun it, but they sent me a new set ... after awhile. Whatever brand you get, check for straightness and easy rolling axle. But it works well and I'm happy with it. Of course, if your wheel bearings spin reasonably well, you could just hang the wheel on it's axle between, say, 2 chairs. Now, about OEM matching. With a static balancer I guess it would make sense to "measure" the wheel without tire and mark the heavy/light spot on the bare wheel. Then lining up the tire dot should get you the closest to balance wo/ weights. Henrik | ||
| Ocbueller |
After having about 3 wheels mounted and balanced at a brand new H/D dealership near my home, the newbie tech happened to mention that my 5.5 PM didn't fit on their balancer. In other words they charged me for balancing and shop supplies when all they did was retain the old weights. Never experienced any balance problems but was pissed that no one bothered to mention it earlier. I still went there due to a lack of choices in my area, but when they gouged the crap out of my polished Marchesini it was the last straw. I will attempt to do my own in the future as with all my other maintenance. | ||
| Xb9er |
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| Timbo |
XB9 Question, In the FM it shows "jacking points" for lifting the bike. These jacking points are on the bottom of the exhaust collector. So my question is, can I use my regular bike lift to lift my XB up? Regular being the type used for a Sportster that slides under the frame rails. What I was thinking I could do is make cradles to fit the curve of the collector at the proper distance apart to lift at the "jacking points". It sounds kinda iffy to me only because the FM talks about making sure you torque the straps properly or else you risk crushing the collector. So would this be ok, or am I reading the manual wrong? Timbo | ||
| Crusty |
"Final note, make sure anyone who removes a rear XB wheel takes the axle out first to remove tension off the belt, and don't let them kink or bend the belt." Is it possible to remove the rear wheel without pulling the axle first? | ||
| Xb9 |
On tire changing & balancing, I still think the best approach is the DIY method. It's a PITA, but so is dealing with a dealer. You can pick up an excellent "minibalancer" for $45 here: balancer This is highly precise and a careful static balance will be as good or better than your typical shop's quicky spin balance. You'll never know the difference. Some really good tips on changing the tire yourself can be found at: mounting If you want to buy a changer stand, for $388 delivered you can get it here: changer "The bike feels good so I start to push and the tire starts to slide but it is possible to pass so I win…thank you very much." | ||
| Court |
DON CASTO: PLEASE...be sure this stuff finds a home in the Knowledge Vault under "tires & wheels" or whatever. | ||
| Bykergeek |
I had the BT-020 I bought at Chapparal put on at my dealer this morning. $50 mount/balance (wheel on bike). I strapped the new tire on my back like a backpack and rode down. OUCH! Had I paid the $180 the tire usually costs, this would have been ridiculously expensive. I hope this one lasts more than the 3200 miles the OEM D207 lasted. | ||
| Fasteddieb |
I've been getting 6k to 8k miles on rear BT020's on the back of my K1200RS. I use MEZ4's on the front (less scalloping, a problem on heavier bikes) That's a MUCH heavier bike, at about 620 lbs.  They should wear very well on the 'bolt (depending on how many burnouts you're doing!) | ||
| Hootowl |
"Final note, make sure anyone who removes a rear XB wheel takes the axle out first to remove tension off the belt, and don't let them kink or bend the belt." "Is it possible to remove the rear wheel without pulling the axle first? " I think what he means is, don't pry the belt off before taking out the axle. |
