| Author | Message | ||
     Keys |
- 47degrees out today. Got my slippery dunlop on the rear showing cord from a burnout in the center but well scrubbed all the way over the edges. There is plenty of good wear left in the edges so I think it's the dunlop itself not the condition of the tire. Anyway there are some things I obviously did right and would like more advise or info about the affects of cold roads on (apparently) my cold tires. I've got about a 45degree right side sweeper on a country road near my house. Very smooth road, no cars, nice asphalt road. Took the corner today at 70mph no braking. Prepped for the corner well - so nothing drastic changed in the middle of the corner... until... AND I know many of you could take the corner quicker than I. But I wasn't taking it slow either. It's one of those "Caution 30mph" type corners. Right at the apex of the turn the rear tire slides out and keeps sliding until it sticks right around the yellow line. My finger on the brake didn't move and I let off the throttle just a bit. Countersteered the front wheel at a pretty good angle to keep up with where the rear tire was heading. The bike held the same lean angle that it had before the slide began. When the rear tire grabbed again I straightened the bars back quick and no big deal. No highside. I never had the feeling I was going down. Nice rush - to be honest. From the position in the road I started before the slide and where I ended up, the rear tire slid out a massive 2feet or so. I thought back through what had happened in my head right after and think I did everything right. I went back and made sure there wasn't any slippery stuff on that turn and it was completely dry. But I must have looked like those dirt track oval riders that slide the rear wheel and turn out their front wheel in those huge slides they do. My dad put me on a yamaha dirt bike when I was 7yrs old. Sometimes I think it's in my genes. But the response my body did today to control the slide... I've never done before on roads and didn't know I could do it so effortlessly.. The dunlop (I had noticed) slid a lot when I launched on cold streets. This was the first time it had ever slid in a turn apart from the tiny slides everyone has had. Any track people out there have any more technique advise or could clue me in just how drastic a cold track can have an effect on your cold tire grip. NEW tires will be on the bike soon BTW. And no I've decided not to mixmatch them  I'm thinking Pilot Powers. - | ||
| Rr_eater |
I can tell you one thing, expect the flaming and dont take it personal. As an MSF instructor myself, your first failure in good reasoning was to ride AT ALL with anything resembling a corded tire, much less just one wear bar showing. The wear bars are not put there to get you to buy new tires because the manufacturer tells you they are worn out. When a tire that is intended for everyday use on the average public roadway reaches the wear bars, this is a tattle tale that the structural integrity of the tire is beginning to become compromised. A wear bar that is worn through, but all the others are still good, means the tire is now structurally compromised in a single place, even worse as this means the tire is being loaded non-symetrically, and thus is in even greater danger of a catistraufic failure. To sit here and brag about how well you handled the bike, and how second nature your actions were, proves nothing, as you allready proved your lack of maturity in riding on a dangerous tire on public roads where the lives of others may be endangered by your poor choices. Oh and by the way, if you are hanging the tire out, while under power and not braking, you are driving slower and more accident prone then nessasary. A maneuver like that on the average track with a seasoned rider behind you leads to only one thing, getting passed and laughed at, at the same time. We appear to be of the same age, though obviously not the same mindset, so it begs to wonder the validity of your riding experience. I ride with several MORE then seasoned riders who may or may not post to this thread. But let it be known, you walked away unscathed this time, I am willing to bet if you temp fate again, you will not come out of it well. Tires, brakes, gear, and a sound mind are never an option when operating a motorcycle. They are your truely last defense against an inevitable demise, because no matter the size or speed or alertness of the cage operater that will one day involve you in a situation not to your advantage, you are outnumbered in everyway, airbags, tires, horsepower (usually), and shear displacement. Just think about the moment, revel in the fact you made it where ever you were meant to get to, and learn something by looking at it from another point of view. If that had been me on that bike for instance, and something had happened other then stated, and I was unfortunately killed, what would have been lost? I have over a million dollars in life insurance policies between the Navy and private investment, and if they found out something like that had happened because of a bald tire (operating a vehicle with less then optimal conditions for operation) no only do I lose out because I am dead, but so would my family, and the guys who work for me and the people I work for. Dont believe for a minute you are the only one endangered by your actions, or would suffer if you did not make it to wherever it was you were going, as I am sure there are those who count on you to be at work wherever that may be, or at home taking care of your family. Oh by the way, nice save, but learn from it, not brag about it. Bruce US Naval Aircraft Maintenance Technician "Defending your freedoms, AND mine!" | ||
| Isham |
Dude I had to vote for you. That post was amazing. No this is not a joke. It was riveting... I read it again and I have to thank you for your very wise words. (Message edited by isham on December 14, 2005) | ||
| Rocketman |
A wear bar that is worn through, but all the others are still good, means the tire is now structurally compromised in a single place, even worse as this means the tire is being loaded non-symetrically, and thus is in even greater danger of a catistraufic failure. That's pretty much true but you'll find the real danger to be once the cord is showing, as yours is. Here's a sound bit of advice. Be there when that tyre is removed from your bike, and inspect the tyre closely in your hands. In particular feel how thin it is around the center line. That will make you think twice, maybe. Rocket | ||
| Keys |
- Hi Bruce, thanks for the post. I appreciate the information as to structural integrity regarding cords on tires showing. However the tire condition is presently a non-issue as they're being replaced before the next ride. Obviously I learned a some things today. I don't really need you telling me what I already discovered. Either you or those you regularly deal with have a hard time with their basic learning curve. Well now, that was a cheap shot, but it just followed the tone you yourself set. My apologies again. Everyone has to learn their mistakes some way. And today I learned mine and shared, my bad. The boasting was unfortunate. As to the attacks to my character, it doesn't really affect me as you don't know me. You're merely filling in the blanks based upon my brief anecdote. That too is immature. But you're right otherwise, I learned my lesson. I'm not sure what the Navy has to do with anything. Except I can say "thank you" for your service. Here is my brother by the way https://www.cnet.navy.mil/mccalip_bio.htm So as far as my family is concerned, I can certainly appreciate your position as a proud maintenance man in the force that fights for our great freedom. I hope you appreciate my contrition at boasting. I plan to save all my remaining learning experiences for the track with Blake in the spring. | ||
| Keys |
oh, another thing. I wasn't braking in the turn. I ride with my finger on the brake as habit. My speed was already corrected for the corner. It was the affects of the cold weather (and of course the slip!) that surprised me. | ||
| Isham |
Someone had to ruin me by giving me 2.5 stars. Who ever did that is a jerk! I can't be honest with what I say? (thinks it was keys) Oh good thing its not permanant. (Message edited by isham on December 14, 2005) | ||
| Blake |
Keys, No worries. It happens. I doubt that the tread on the outside of the tire contributes much to the tire's structural integrity, only in that it helps to prevent puncture. What you imagine was a mongo big slide was probably not so big as you might have imagined. If it were mongo big, the highside reaction of the bike would likely have been severe. You should do great at OHR!  | ||
| Slaughter |
I'd just think that first, it was cold rubber but you said you had scorched a tire doing a burnout. When you heat-cycle a tire that badly, it REALLY hardens the rubber! A burnout is something you should do as a last gesture before taking the tire off to change it out. Don't go and ride a tire that has seen that kind of heating. | ||
| Steve899 |
OHR, I'am in. | ||
| Steve899 |
Hi Keys, Cool story, Pilot Powers are a good choice. Hope to see you at the Hill. | ||
| Fzrider |
Keys, I think you got saved by the cold greasy tire because when you slide on a hot sticky tire and don't accelerate at the same time, once you re-gain traction the suspension compresses and you are history in the air. Lesson is to keep the wheel spinning slowly to avoid highside when sliding, and don't ride on less than perfect tires. That is Keith Code's technical explanation by the way. | ||
| Rr_eater |
Keys Sorry you took that ALL the wrong way. All I was saying, as you attested to in your rebuttal, was a lesson learned like that was a very dangerous methodology. I say that, as not 5 monthes ago I watched from literally 25 feet to the rear, a young, supposedly experienced rider, lose contol of his bike and proceed to complete over 10 summersaults and cartwheels out of his control, buying himself 3 broken arm bones, one broken femur, a dislocated shoulder, 4 cracked ribs, one hyperextended ankle, and a bucket-full of bruises, but no road rash thanks to good gear, BECAUSE he was riding a corded tire on a clean, 135 DEGREE public road, in clear daylight, at the posted speed limit of the turn!!!!! I am sorry you took it personal, as the first thing I said was not to do just that. The Navy had nothing to do with anything, thats why I phrased it as "If that had been me on that bike for instance, and something had happened other then stated", it was just an example, thats all. Have a great day, sorry you felt the need to retalliate after posting something in a public forum you knew would get you comments you may not like. Hmm, public forum, hmm............ Oh, and if it means anything, I share your brother's mission statement of his current duty station down to the last word and period, literally. I know what his directives and obligations are to motorcycle safety awareness to the "T", as I too must follow them. I would be very interested to hear his comments on you adventure............. That is all, sorry you took it personal Bruce | ||
| Sarodude |
Slaughter has a very important point... I'm no tire engineer, but racing taught me enough to be dangerous. Race tires rarely "wear out" like we think of on the street. They "go off" or "get greasy". They get too hot for too long - and their grip goes away even though there's still LOTS tread left. I'm sure we've all encountered street rubber that, once swapped for a scrubbed newer identical tire (despite there being plenty of tread left on the old one) showed dramatic differences in grip...... Basically, tire rubber vulcanizes (hardens) at temperatures that, as far as the tire is concerned, come too close or exceed the operating temps encountered during heavy use (like during a race, or worse, during a burnout). I treated tire temps sorta like water temps. 220 was the "Whoa, Betsy!" point for me - though I much preferred to keep things closer to 180F. All issues of bike control, judgment, and what not aside, your tire compound had likely been toasted. -Saro | ||
| Djkaplan |
I thought it was a cool story Keys (except for the burnout part). I didn't get the impression you were boasting at all. It sounded like you were pretty stoked about the spectacular save, though. I wish I could have seen it. | ||
| Keys |
 Thanks Bruce Saro and Frank thanks for the explanations. Steve and Blake see you there! BTW MotorsportRanch is in my backyard nearly. |
