| Author | Message | ||
     Pwnzor |
Ok, how about it.... is anybody running straight pipes on their XB? What are the pros and cons of doing this? Will it really make my engine run too hot? Educate me please. | ||
| Bugman |
DON'T! It will be difficult if not impossible to tune right, you will lose power almost everywhere, and it will be loud as hell (unless you are into that). I strongly discourage doing that on a Buell. | ||
| Spiderman |
DO you mean 2 seperate pipes or a 2 into 1 system? Either way you can tune them in it will be a PITA though. If is a 2into 1, and it is built right, can provide a lot of power with just a small loss in low end power around the 2500 to 3200 range. On my M2/S1 with XB top end and a 2 into 1 straight that is very well designed I am running 95HP with a small drop around the RPM range I said above and I don't notice it one bit  | ||
| Cataract2 |
You'd be better off going with the D&D, Race ECM, and Race Filter. This will keep your air/fuel ratio good and will give you all the sound you ever wanted. Warning: wear ear plugs with for this. It will be LOUD! | ||
| Dana P. |
Cataract my bike is not loud.Spideys is though. | ||
| Spiderman |
Ya know, no one has asked what you have done, or are doing to the bike. What is the plan Stan? More than likely a D&D will give you a loud rumble and power you need for small mods. | ||
| Cochise |
I love my D&D, but when/if I get the chance for the louder Force, I'ma gettin' it. | ||
| Pwnzor |
I currently have the factory race can, ecm and k&n filter. My goals are these: 1: Increase my sound output 2: to separate the exhaust note, creating a different sound I really want two separate, and maybe bigger, pipes. With mufflers, without mufflers, is debatable. I want the distinct exhaust note from each cylinder. Is there a system like this available and I have just missed it somehow? I'm happy with the power output, more would be nice but I'm cool with what I have in terms of horsepower and speed. Its the hog sound I'm craving so help me out here. | ||
| Spiderman |
The only way you can get that double sound is the race can from Buell or a 2 into 2 system. But be warned a 2 into 2 is a horrible system unless you are running a huge motor with huge horse power and have noooo need for any bottom end. Try and find someone with a D&D and take a listen... | ||
| Bugman |
What Spiderman said. You will achieve your sound goals with straights, but you will kill your power across most of the rev range. You will be sorely disappointed. The difference will be dramatic, and you won't like it. | ||
| Olinxb12r |
Micron gets pretty close to what you are looking for with their full system. I'm not sure what a cutting of the can looks like, but it is dual entry and exit. I would think there is two sets of internals also. It is only $699 at American Sport Bike for the time being, but it will be going up according to Al. Here are some pics off American Sport Bike   | ||
| Pwnzor |
I have trouble understanding how the race can I already have will give me the sound I'm looking for, when the header goes into 1 before it hits the can. How exactly does having two pipes all the way decrease the power? I always thought more flow = more power. That micron seems like it might fit the description but my opinion is that those tips are too long. Suppose I could trim them up, but for that price I want something that looks right to me from the get-go. | ||
| Daman |
I have the micron system on my bike but it seems like it has lost a lot below 3000, but at around 4500 it really pulls hard. Im getting it tuned next wednesday, so hopefully it might give me some back on the low end. By the way it has a deep rumble which is awesome. I also ran open headers and that was fun. It sounded like cammed drag bike and had more power then the micron on the low end. Back to your question, I put 500 miles when I had open headers and my bike hasnt messed up since then. (Message edited by daman on November 24, 2005) | ||
| Jackbequick |
With a two into one, the valve overlap and timing of the firing allows the pressure wave from the exhaust of one cylinder put some back pressure on the fuel charge as it comes into the other cylinder. That lets more of the charge be trapped when the inlet valve closes. There will be a rpm range where the pressure waves are timed better, more fuel/air mixture is trapped in the cylinder when the inlet valve closes, and the engine has more torque. The effect will vary with RPM, carb sizes, jet sizes, inlet manifold and exhaust pipe lengths, and a number of other variables. Jack | ||
| Cataract2 |
Dana, yours is louder than mine. I guess that's how I'm messuring it, compared to others I've heard. | ||
| Pwnzor |
Jackbequick I never had it explained to me like that, it seems reasonable to me. That being said I see all kinds of Harleys with straight pipes and they seem to run strong and loud. Emphasis on loud. The factory race can has a disappointing sound, in my opinion. The increase in performance from the stock can was acceptable but I don't know how much of that is atrributable to the ecm and/or the air cleaner. I want my bike to sound like a 1203cc 45 degree v-twin should. I'd like the exhaust to drown out the sound of coins in a blender.  | ||
| Daves |
Get a D+D or check out some of the cool pipes on Hillbilly-Motors Motors website. I am a dealer for them now too and will be placing my order for the initial shipment next week. | ||
| Jackbequick |
"That being said I see all kinds of Harleys with straight pipes..." Yep, two separate exhaust tracts is what creates the fabled "potato-potato" sound at idle, it is a lovely sound. On those there is usually some restriction near the outlet end (a baffle) and with that system the length of the pipe and the size of the baffle are factors on using the pressure wave to keep the incoming charge from running through the cylinder. On the longer straight pipes, there may be two or more pressure waves involved, add or remove the baffle and everything changes again as far as mixture and where the torque is. Sometimes you can make yourself crazy trying to get an exhaust system that is quite a departure from the stock system working as well as the stock one did. You can melt a hole in the top of a piston pretty quickly if the charge runs through and the mixture leans out at higher RPM. The Buell systems strike a pretty good balance on power and meeting requirements. When you hear a twin straight pipe H-D accelerating hard, the increase in the sharp "report" (loudness) is the high pressure waves in the pipe escaping at higher pressure. Just like gun shots. I'm 63 years old, about 1/2 deaf, some of that comes from enjoying things like guns, motorcycles (2 and 4 stroke), and the like. Somewhere around mid point in my life I realized that loud, while enjoyable, came with a price. I really like the sound of my stock M2 as heard with a helmet on and no ear plugs. Next week I'm getting two new custom fitted ear plugs with volume controls on them. Hearing aids they call them. I'm thinking if I turn them off before I get on the bike, I'll have a good set of ear plugs. But if I can't hear the exhaust that won't be a good thing. Maybe I should be looking for a louder bike too. I don't mean it to sound harsh but Harleys are Harleys and Buells are Buells and some things just have to be lived with. Jack | ||
| Pwnzor |
I am almost completely deaf in my right ear, and the left is not far behind. Even with my diminished hearing, the sound from the factory race can is just weak. There has to be a way for this to work. So what you're telling me is to use straight pipes they must have baffles in them? Is it realistic to think that I can do this without damaging my engine? Do I need to switch to a carburetor or get a whole new engine? Daves: Thanks for the suggestion but I've checked out the D&D and it is louder but its not the sound I want. As for hillbilly's website, I can't read or speak german. It seems like an interesting site and I did find a few things in english and some nice pictures but I couldnt find the pipes for sale. Ah well maybe I'm just pissing up wind. Someone, somewhere, must know how to make straight pipes work, and work well, on this bike. I'll give it a few more months of research until I just subtract it from my garage. | ||
| Hogs |
Pwnzor, Get yourself a Force can (muffler) and stick it on your stock header, I have this on my 12r and its Harley LOUD and hauls •••, I had first gen. drummer, LAtus, D&D But the FORCE is by far the loudest next louder wd. be the becin, or besin however it is spelled,D&D don`t come near the sound of the FORCE.. and the Besin/becin makes the force sound alot quieter... Power with the force rocks, yes over the other it may lose a pony or three who cares I wanted the LOUD and now I`m satisfied , but IF I could get my hands on the esin/Becin I wd. myself go with that, can`t seem to find one of them though, and I`m just talking about the CAN not header.... | ||
| Fullpower |
No, " what creates the fabled "potato-potato" sound at idle," is setting the idle too low. | ||
| Vr1200r |
The fuel injection also creates a smoother idle. | ||
| Cataract2 |
Ear plugs are your friends with loud pipes. Just remember though, loud pipes do have a price on our freedoms in riding that we enjoy. | ||
| Jackbequick |
Fullpower - I guess we hear different things. A twin pipe Sportster and a Buell idling at the same RPM have very different sounds to me. Pwnzor - "There has to be a way for this to work." I'm sure there is some way to get it to work, as far as I know there is not a Buell exhaust system available that would give you two equal length straight pipes. I can visualize something like two pipes running side by side through the muffler area and maybe exiting towards the rear. I think a baffle would be needed for two reasons. (1), To get it borderline legal for noise levels and, (2), to create at least some backpressure in a pipe that is that much shorter than the straight pipes on H-D models. If you can get someone to bend the pipes up for you and want to play around with it you would have to play with the mixture settings. On a carburated bike I would just start running it and doing plug checks. I'm clueless what the approach would be for getting the mixture right on the XB's with the electronic fuel injection stuff. I guess you would have to play with the ECM/ECU/TPS or whatever mysterious bits I guess. I'm a carb guy, I don't think I going forward from there. Jack | ||
| Buellin_ri |
What about the deep thunder pipe/pipes, from hill billy motors? I've seen it in here before and I believe that is a "dual exhaust". Might be costly but it must sound nice and will give you that dual pipe sound you' after. (Message edited by buellin_ri on November 25, 2005) | ||
| Citified |
I plan to make an LAF style header for my show bike and stick a baffle in it. Should be interesting! | ||
| Pwnzor |
I never said it had to be legal.  | ||
| Cataract2 |
Jack, part of the difference in sound at idle is that the Sporty idles at 900 rpm and the Buell is at 1050. | ||
| Jackbequick |
My M2 will idle at 900 also but I don't think it sounds like a Sportster at that speed. Do you? It might have something to do with two separate outlets and their being physically staggered a little. I don't insist on bikes being dead quiet, I like a little rumble and roar. But some straight pipes can be offensively loud. And I'm hard of hearing. I guess I should say some riders can be offensively loud? Remember the "Snuff or Not" baffles? Looks like those are available again. Those worked well on the old Triumph twins. You could pull off the mufflers (or remove the baffles on a Bonneville), tweak the jetting so it was not too lean, and with the Snuff of Nots and a little common sense you could still get around without waking up neighbors or attracting the attention of the LE types. Jack | ||
| Fullpower |
jack i have a VERY loud and VERY FAST sportster, have run both two into one pipes and duals. it most definitely runs better with a two into one header. there is no question what so ever that it has TWO 729cc high compression cylinders, even when blowing through a single can. the big difference between individual straight pipes and the 2 into one is that the two into one doesnt have a 2500 -3000 rpm hole in the torque curve. | ||
| Pwnzor |
Offensively loud... I like the sound of that. You know, some people ride too fast. Some ride too slow. Some are loud, some are not. Either way, on a bike I'm gone before you know I'm there. I ride because of ME. I don't care if some people don't like my high beams on all day. I don't care if people think I'm too loud. I don't care if I'm too fast or too slow. I'm having a great time and whoever doesn't like it can go to Iraq or Afghanistan and hang out there for a while. Truck bombs move fast, and are very loud. Don't anybody take it personal, I'm just trying to get the point across. Stop what you're doin cuz I'm about to ruin the image and the style that you're used to. Everybody do whatyalike. (Message edited by pwnzor on November 26, 2005) | ||
| Jackbequick |
Thanks for the details Dean, I've only ridden one Sporty and that was a looong time ago, like 1968 or so. I'd not want a Sporty or a Buell with a hold in the torque 2,500-3,000 RPM, that is like the most used and favorite part of the band for me. I appear to be one of the few guys here that has little or no interest in seeing the needle near the red line on my tach. I was saying that I thought that what some call the "potato potato" sound of the dual pipe bikes at idle was different than the sound from a two into one with a single outlet. Cataract2 said that he thought the difference was the idle speed, I think its more than that. Jack | ||
| Pwnzor |
It is indeed more than just idle speed. There is NO possible way to get the same sound from 2 into 1 that you get from 2 completely separate pipes. One of my neighbors has a Yamaha Warrior. V-twin 102ci. Shogun exhaust http://www.shogunexhaust.com/products/210174.jpg He not only keeps up with me, but passes me and pulls away at 100mph. I then overtake him at 120mph and pull away up to 140 and beyond. I've also ridden the cruiser in question, and I can confirm there is no "hole" in his torque that I can detect. It pulls hard all the way up. I dunno if he has some crazy ecm module or what but it works awesome. |
