| Author | Message | ||
     Captainplanet |
Blake, Yes, East Texas is nice. I went to graduate school in Nacogdoches at SFA. I actually worked in Henderson ISD during an internship. I didn't know about the track there until I started reading this board. Sounds great. Ferris, It was 2001 ex500. I started riding motorcycles when I was 13 and did until I got married at 26. It took me about 6 years to convince her it was a good idea to have a bike again. I bought the ex500 so I could start out slow again. It was an ok bike, but had shitty suspension. Oh, and last year, she went to MSF class and bought a Buell Blast the next week, so now we are a two Buell family. Picking up the XB9R tonight. Not getting much work done today. Oh well, it is Friday. Jeff | ||
| Archer |
RACE KIT help!!! Anyone else have a bolt' with a race kit?? Mine dynoed at 77 corrected! What happened to damn near 90!!! It's backfiring on deceleration and this morning I could here it popping when I was accelerating. I need suggestions on what I can try. I need some of you engineering geniuses to rack your brains. SOMEONE PLEASE GIVE ME SOME OPTIONS!!!!!!! I'd love to have 82 uncorrected!!! Thanks Ross Smith Republic HD/BUELL | ||
| Sparky |
Archer, who did the installation? It is imperative that the TPS be reset after changing to the race ECM. Also the instructions imply that the muffler be installed sans silicone sealer at the slip joint. Presumeably silicone can ruin the oxygen sensor. Did you/they remove the snorkel? There should not be popping on accel. Did you make a baseline run stock before changing to the race kit? It's only fair to judge the race kit's performance on your bike not the factory's. These tidbits are all that I know about FI bikes at this point. The future promises aftermarket FI enhancers that might be applicable to the Firebolt: Techlusion, PCIII, and a rumored tuner's kit from Buell for hot-rodding its performance. How fa$t do you want to go? Riglar, if you value your passenger's relationship, you're supposed to get the comfy seat for her. My wife likes the touring pillion much better that the stock seat. We went 2 up from LA to Laguna Seca (and back) OK. What do Cycle World clown car testers know anyway. Ferris, decisions decisions. Jerry Johnson is putting on a Palomar ride this Sunday. I'll give ya a ring, maybe we can cook up something for the whole family to do.  Sparky | ||
| Csg_Inc |
after the TPS is reset. The ECM has to "learn" the correct settings. If you stay just below 3,000 rpm for awhile it learns. Then you need to run up to just over 5000 rpm for it to practise what it has learned. It took mine about 40 miles to smarten up. Runs great now. | ||
| Archer |
I put the race kit on myself. I did not put the sealer at the slip joint. I also did not run it easy after I put in the new ECM and I did re- zero the TPS. I swear I have an exhaust leak at the headers or something. Is there a PC3 out for it yet?? I think I need to get that. ANYONE ELSE WANT TO THROW IN ON THIS ONE??? COURT???? HELP???? Thanks Ross | ||
| Anonymous |
The reason for the XB race kit's crummy results is it was designed by Harley Davidson P&A department and not by the people at Buell. | ||
| Xb9 |
Is there a method to Zero the TPS without the "Digital Technician" scanner? | ||
| Sarodude |
Anyone remember this post? One of the things EB mentioned was a possible race kit setup that was much more involved than what is being offered now. I wonder if something else isn't coming down the pipe (pardon the pun). -Saro | ||
| Blake |
Archer (Ross), Firstly, I want to totally eliminate the phrase "rezero TPS" from this board. It is a totally confusing and inaccurate statement to say that the "TPS is rezeroed" or that the "TPS is reset." Thumbs way down to whoever initiated the use of those terribly inaccurate descriptions. In the context of your discussion, no one is "rezeroing" or "resetting" their TPS. What actually happens is that a new (to your bike) ECM must be programmed/flashed with the TPS output voltage for the throttle 100% closed condition. So what the Buell technician is actually doing is calibrating (setting) the ECM for TPS closed voltage. Call it an "ECM TPS calibration", or an "ECM TPS reset" but let's end the confusion once and for all and stop with the "TPS rezeroing" silliness. That said, it seems obvious that you could not have performed an ECM TPS reset on your own. The calibration requires proprietary code and the use of a scanalyzer. So, take your bike to your dealer, and have them perform the calibration for you. I also agree with running it on a dyno before and after. | ||
| Archer |
I know that I should have done a base line pull but my schedule and sheer impatience did not allow that. I was wondering what "rezeroing the TPS" meant thanks for clearing that up. I will refrain from using that terminology in the future. After I put the race kit on i did have my dealer (who I work for) re-calibrate the TPS. I am going to seal up the exhaust tonight and disconnect the computer and battery and let it sit for about 2 hours before I try to do the ECM stuff. Will I need to do the TPS re-calibration after I clear the ECM??? No one at the dealership I work for knows shit about the bikes, I'm learning slowly. Thanks for eveyone's help! Ross Republic H-D/Buell (281)295-1000 ext. 109 | ||
| Chainsaw |
ECM "Learning": On the Firebolt, the service manual says to keep the rpms over 5000 for 10 minutes for the ECM to "learn" the new components. | ||
| Anonymous |
Ross, What? No one in your dealership knows how to call tech service? Sheesh! Disconnecting you battery will do nothing for you. The only thing that will help you is proper kit installation! Sealing the pipe with Stupid-cone will ruin the O2 sensor and you can not clean or repair it after the fumes have traveled up the pipe. There is never enough time to do the job right, but there is always time to do it over. | ||
| Xb9 |
I picked up the phrase from the owners manual, in the service interval chart (page101): "Zero throttle position sensor (TPS)" | ||
| Blake |
XB9, I know; it's in the service manual. That doesn't change the fact that it's a confusing and inaccurate description. The procedure does absolutely nothing to the TPS. It's purely an ECM data upload/flash procedure. | ||
| Archer |
I don't have the service manual and neither does the dealership. Can someone (CHAINSAW???) quote it word for word. I want this done right. OH and Anonymous.....from what I understand the silicone is called for in both the service manual and the instructions for the race kit. The silicone I am using is safe for O2 sensors. I tend not to take Anonymous advice anyway, if you want to make a comment.....stand by it and let yourself be known! Well thanks everyone for the help. Ya'll have been great as usual. I love this forum and I get alot of info from it. I'll share any info I find out. Thanks Ross Republic H-D/Buell (281)295-1000 ext. 109 | ||
| Chainsaw |
Archer: Throttle Position Sensor (TPS) Inspection: 1. Connect vehicle to Digital Technician 2. Select data monitor screen. 3. Select TP degrees on screen. 4. Ignition and run switch should be in the on position with the engine off and throttle in closed position. 5. If closed throttle TP degree reading is not between 5.2 - 5.6 degrees, TPS should be recalibrated. See adjustment below. Adjustment: 1. Connect vehicle to Data Technician. 2. Select data monitor screen. 3. Select TP degrees screen. 4. See figure 1-60 (shows the idle adjustment screw, position is also shown in the owners manual). Back off the idle adjustment until TPS is at 0 degrees and then continue to back out one to two additional turns. 5. Open and SNAP SHUT throttle control grip 2-3 times. Note: This is to ensure that the throttle plate is completely closed before begining recalibration. 6. Select calibrations screen. 7. Select Buell calibrations tab. 8. Select the Zero TPS function. Note: When calibration is complete, dialog box will appear on Digital Tech screen with message to display "Command Sent Succesfully" Select OK to continue. 9. Select data monitor screen. 10. Select TP degrees on screen. 11. Turn idle speed screw in until the TPS degree reading is between 5.2 -5.6 degrees. 12. Select RPM/Speed and Temperature on screen and start vehicle. 13. Run vehicle until engine temperature is 270 degrees F. 14. Set idle to 1050 - 1100 RPM 15. Adjustment is complete. Good Luck | ||
| Chainsaw |
The manual and Scanilizer call the process re-zeroing the TPS, because it is set back to zero for recalibration purposes. I don't believe this is confusing or inaccurate. Calling it the Dance of the Sugar Plum Fairies would be. | ||
| Blake |
WRONG! The TPS is not set to ANYTHING. The TPS is simply along for the ride; it is not re-adjusted; it is not reset to zero; it simply reports a voltage that increases proportionately with throttle opening. Saying that you are "re-zeroing the TPS" implies that you are performing some act on/to the TPS. You aren't; you never touch the TPS. You zero the throttle and flash the ECM. There have been enough people that thought they could connect a voltmeter to their TPS and "rezero" it that I think my point needs no further corroboration. It's a very inaccurate description for what is actually a calibration/reset of the ECM. Calling it "The Dance of the Sugar Plum Fairies" would be more accurate than what they call it now. This all comes back to a mentality of "Total Quality". Buell sorely needs this. Using accurate language to describe a common service procedure would be a good start. | ||
| Court |
>>>>>>I don't have the service manual and neither does the dealership. And you are working on the bike? Please explain, are you a genius, clarvoyant or just rich? The Buell Service Manual is INCREDIBLE and Buell busted ass to get it out in timely fashion. BUY IT! | ||
| Captainplanet |
Hey all, I picked up my new XB9R last night. I have a couple of questions for you guys. When you first start the bike when cold, should it have a fast idle? Mine just starts and goes right to the normal idle speed. Also I have been reading above that normal idle speed should be between 1050 and 1100 rpm. Mine, even after warm up is about 900 rpm. Should I adjust the idle or will the ECM take care of that in time? Jeff | ||
| Chainsaw |
Blake: Please see above procedure for adjusting the TPS, under Adjustments, number 4 and number 8 specifically. Let those of us who actually own and ride Firebolts determine what we call the procedure. If it's good enough for the Owner's Manual and the Service Manual, it's good enough for me! Walking into a dealership and asking for a "ECM data upload/flash" will help no one on this board. | ||
| Chainsaw |
Hey Captinplanet! Congrats on the new bike! The 'bolt does not have a fast idle, just a kick-ass fuel injection system (still need to warm it up before you go being a hooligan on it though) My idle was also low out of the box. I would suggest adjusting it. You can use your fingers or an allen wrench, be careful if the engine is hot! The location of the adjuster is, looking from the front of the bike, just left of the air scoop, an inch or two below the frame. Have fun on that puppy! The first 500 miles of break in SUCK! | ||
| X1glider |
Re-zeroing: Sounds to me like it means setting it to a "virtual zero." A certain voltage is associated to the number of degrees. That voltage becomes a reference number, a starting point, if you will. The TPS is simply a sensor, an electro-mechanical device that grabs information and sends a signal to the ECM, nothing more. It is a dumb component, it knows nothing. The ECM takes that info and decides what to do with it. Just because it says 5.2 to 5.6 degress on the scan tool, doesn't mean that the software in the ECM doesn't associate 5.2 degrees with 0 in it's reference chart. The chart "probably" looks something like a 3D ignition map for all we know. And for a given TP and info from other sensors, the ECM looks in the appropriate column in the database or spreadsheet to decide what to do. As far as why 5.2 to 5.6 degrees? Probably has to do with mechanical tolerances, cable stretch or slack, a weak throttle return spring. If there were problems with those, the TPS couldn't do it's job properly. So the 5.2-5.6 degrees probably means the throttle cable has a little pre-load on it. I'm inclined to say "vitual-zero" is the best term. Isn't B.S.ing thru a topic using a little logic fun! | ||
| X1glider |
On the instructions from chainsaw's helpful post: Why does a fuel injected bike have a "physical" idle screw and not a "virtual" idle screw in the ECM? Does a throttle body idle circuit still have to work the same as a carb? Just wondering. | ||
| Anonymous |
Archer, Might want to re-read the service manual you don't have again. Both it and the instruction sheet specifically recommend AGAINST silicone. You will not get one more word of help from me. A tip for you. When asking for help, don't strike out at the ones who can help. Blake, If the entire world calls a rose, a rose and you call it a turd, will they know what you are talking about when you say turd? Trying to change the terminology in your little corner of the world will only confuse. Does that help? | ||
| Court |
>>>I tend not to take Anonymous advice anyway That, in this one case, would be very poor judegement. Court (who has never posted anonymously in 8 years of answering Buell questions on the internet, but DOES understand why some folks MUST.) I'd suggest James Taylor's advise....."If I had closed my mouth and opened my eyes" | ||
| Hootowl |
X1glider, We would need an idle air stepper motor attached to the intake manifold or throttle body for the ECM to control the idle. The ECM can only control the fuel and spark. The stepper motor would allow the ECM to increase or decrease the amount of air entering the engine. I don't know why it isn't set up that way. Might have to do with the wide swings in intake vacuum present in the manifold. Hard to calibrate for that. Cars have a larger plenum so the swings aren't as pronounced. | ||
| Xgecko |
the Fire bolt is not a true "Fly By Wire system" where in there are no mechanical imputs. The Throttle cables must be "calibrated" hence the idle adjuster | ||
| Rempss |
On resetting the TPS - Chainsaw, Blake, X1 and Anony are all right. In order to have it performed at your dealer "re-zeroing the TPS" will lead them to the correct procedure in the service manual. In order to understand what actually happens and why it is critical that it be set perfect "recalibrating the ECM to see TPS output voltage while the throttle is fully closed" must be used. Re-zeroing the TPS is not what is actually happening, no matter where or who wrote it. The correct terminology may change based on the conversation we are engaged in. A turd may well be a rose at times. (I cannot belive I just typed that) Also, Chain - My sevice manual tells me to put a quart of trans oil in my bike, if I do so it spits out what I have overfilled. If "If it's good enough for the Owner's Manual and the Service Manual, it's good enough for me!" is a very closed minded way of finishing a discussion. Which brings me to "Let those of us who actually own and ride Firebolts determine what we call the procedure." WTF kind of world do you live in? Only share in conversations where you have firsthand experience? Grow up. Join in a well balanced conversation with many points of view, you will be amazed what someone not in your shoes can enlighten you to. Jeff | ||
| Rempss |
Anony, Please don't leave the rest of us out in the dark beacause of Archer. It took me months to get the "2 minute" TPS reset out of you, odd how this subject leads to so much discussion. But it was good solid advice. Thanks. But hell, what do I know. I ride a 1999 Black X1, so I can only speak about 1999 Black X1's! (smiley)(need that formatting box back) Jeff |
