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Whodom
| | Posted on Friday, August 19, 2005 - 01:29 pm: | 
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Buellgator,
Pretty cool to see someone from the dealership post here. Hopefully you guys can get some help from the factory if that's what it takes to iron it out. |
Reepicheep
| | Posted on Friday, August 19, 2005 - 01:45 pm: |
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If this is an "S" model, Check the wire bundle going to the ECM, close to where it passes the battery terminal. (though you probably did already). |
Rarebird
| | Posted on Friday, August 19, 2005 - 01:50 pm: |
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Henrick
I have no intention to "fan flames", so this is the last I'll post on this...
In Ohio, at least, the Lemon Laws on bikes are pretty tight, Including "Were three attempts made to repair the problem, without resolution" or "One attempt on a safety item, without resolution". The manufacturer is, if found responsible, required to provide a replacement bike or repayment of cost INCLUDING interest, etc.. This does not seem to be a losing proposition, IMHO.
I would hope it does not come to that, as most of us grow very attached to our bikes/ cars/ etc..., but I still believe a point is reached that enough is enough, and that point may be when the consumer and the dealer are both researching a post such as this in an attempt to resolve an issue- which, even resolved, may never restore confidence in the vehicle.
That said, Good luck Wes! It sounds like you have a dealership that's doing it's best, so I hope it all works out. I'll still be hanging out here to read the outcome.
-Mike |
Buellgator
| | Posted on Friday, August 19, 2005 - 01:51 pm: |
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I will have the techs look at that wire bundle near the ECM. |
Henrik
| | Posted on Friday, August 19, 2005 - 02:24 pm: |
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Mike; we're cool. No flames at all - just differing opinions, which is just fine.
A Danish poet and humorist once said: "the wise man is not the one who knows it all, but the one who knows where to look for answers to his questions." .... or something to that extent. 
I think the fact that Buellgator is here keeping track of Badweb suggestions is great and incredibly open minded and not a sign of things going the wrong way at all.
About the confidence thing; I understand completely. My S2 has been giving me some trouble on longer trips - headers and exhaust brackets breaking mostly - and I'm now hesitant to venture out on longer trips because of it. (and I can just see Tramp looming over his keyboard ... ready for another S2 reliability tirade  ) Not much to do other than ride until confidence is rebuilt.
Henrik |
CJXB
| | Posted on Friday, August 19, 2005 - 02:38 pm: |
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I think the fact that Buellgator is here keeping track of Badweb suggestions is great and incredibly open minded
I agree, Kudos to Buellgator !! 
I hope Wes get's his problem fixed satisfactorily !!
(Message edited by cj_xb on August 19, 2005) |
Buellin_ri
| | Posted on Friday, August 19, 2005 - 04:03 pm: |
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The car line I work for has a buy back policy/lemon law policy. If your bike/car stays in the shop for more than x amount of days for a repeate or related problem they are obligated to buy it back. Basically give you a new one with minor expense out of your pocket. I don't know all the details but if I where you I would check it out can't hurt. Also try contacting Buell directly see what they say. Just a thought. Sorry about your troubles and good luck. |
Wesbone
| | Posted on Friday, August 19, 2005 - 04:25 pm: |
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again guys thanks for all of the support and suggestions, and also thanks buellgator for responding. I can honestly say the guys at Gainesville Harley are doing and have always done their best to correct any problems I have had. I think it boils down to a lot of bad parts on one bike, Im not sure about the whole lemon law thing, but I can honestly say I am about finished with this particular bike. Also Im not out to be a pain in the butt customer who is looking for a whole lot of freebies, I just want a product I can depend on that Im paying for. I am scepticle about the bike even after it is fixed, because of so many past experiences. In the end it will all work out for the best, again thanks to everyone. |
Reepicheep
| | Posted on Friday, August 19, 2005 - 04:27 pm: |
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And just as a sanity check, I did all my own work on my Cyclone... and... weird stuff happens.
My charging system failure was a *classic* example.
The M2 won't start. Fine, check the system, see voltage being fed to battery, so conclude it's just a bad battery. Replace battery.
Shortly after, bike is dead again. Check stator output, we are good, battery connections good, that leaves voltage regulator. Replace it.
Within a month, bike is dead again. Now stator is not putting out anything. Replace it. Now it stays fixed.
I did it myself, I have a degree in electrical engineering and am mechanically handy. I know what I tested, and I know what happened, no matter how improbable it was.
Had I taken the bike to the dealer, and they had done *exactly* what I did, me and every other member of this site would conclude that I was royally screwed by an utterly incompetent dealer, when the dealer actually did everything right. I just had an odd combination of bad luck and a cascading failure. I still can't explain it entirely, except it was just bad luck.
So have some grace for dealer mechanics. "stuff happens", and dealers have to sort it out, sometimes it is hard. So far, it sounds like this dealer is taking the problem seriously, is doing good work, and is working hard to sort it out. There are idiot dealers out there, but there are also sometimes just plain old hard problems and bad luck. |
Reepicheep
| | Posted on Friday, August 19, 2005 - 04:32 pm: |
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And so long as you can eventually find the problem with the bike, I think you only have one failure here. One tricky to find problem, but probably only one. Find it, fix it, and the problem should be solved.
I would only be concerned about trusting the bike again if the problem can't be reproduced and stops happening. Then I would be nervous. If the dealer shows me the charred / smoking / frayed thingamabob, and shows how it was fixed, I would be back to full trust. |
Buellgator
| | Posted on Friday, August 19, 2005 - 04:44 pm: |
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If the dealer shows me the charred / smoking / frayed thingamabob
I hope we can find it.
So Wes can get out there and ride . |
Bomber
| | Posted on Friday, August 19, 2005 - 04:50 pm: |
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while I have, from time to time, fallen prey to using the trust word in regards to a bike (oddly, never to a car or truck), I've come to realize that it's just a collection of dumb parts -- when said parts work as designed, hooray -- when not, there's sumpin wrong, and that sumpin should, and likely can, be fixed (I agree, btw, sound like one failure mode to me -- sadly, I couldn't suggest anything that others havn't already covered)
hope they find the mode, and soon, Wes -- sounds like they're putting forth their best effort to do just that (kudos to the dealership, btw) -- once fized, ya won't have to sprinkle chicken blood around it every morning -- just ride the scoot til you're froze up at the controls
(I've only known one haunted conveyance personally, and it weren't a scoot, so I think you're safe) |
Metalstorm
| | Posted on Friday, August 19, 2005 - 06:04 pm: |
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I think I'd rather have a bad engine or a bad tranny rather than a electical gremlin.
Electrical problems to me, are the worse problems.
I was blowing ignition fuses like crazy & it turned out to be a chaffed wire in the harness by the frame neck.
Another badweber was blowing the ign fuse as well. It took several weeks to find the problem on his. It turned out to be a wire from the fuel pump grounding on the frame.
I hope the dealer traces every wire (I mean EVERY wire) on your XB.
Once the culprit is found & dealt with I'm sure your love for your bike will be renewaled. |
Lonexb
| | Posted on Friday, August 19, 2005 - 09:25 pm: |
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Metalstorm
tranny problems are not all that fun to deal with either. |
Metalstorm
| | Posted on Saturday, August 20, 2005 - 12:17 am: |
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Yeah, I'll concur. Tranny problems are no fun either. I havn't had any tranny problems yet with any of my bikes past or present *knock on wood* but I had a Chevy Firebird once (yes Chevy) & I was under that thing breaking the linkage free every other time I drove it. I can't tell you how many times I got stuck driving it home with it stuck in third gear.
The things we do & deal with for the love of a machine.. |
Cajunrph
| | Posted on Saturday, August 20, 2005 - 12:30 am: |
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Hey Metal,I thought Pontiac made Firebirds and the Chevy was a Camaro? |
Tunes
| | Posted on Saturday, August 20, 2005 - 12:51 am: |
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Wesbone - My '04 Lightning was in the shop for 3+ weeks before they found the IGN fuse blowing problem my bike had... and it was intermittent, like yours. Turns out it was the gray wire coming out of the fuel pump, rubbed thru and was shorting against the frame. My bike got fixed and I've been riding it everywhere, just like before the "fuse" prob. Sounds like you have a great dealer to work with. Hang in there. These bikes are worth it... and good luck. |
Metalstorm
| | Posted on Saturday, August 20, 2005 - 01:12 am: |
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Cajunrph, you are 100% correct. The reason why I called my Firebird a chevy is cause it was Chevyized. The whole drive train was converted to Chevy. It had an old four bolt main 283 in it with Corvette camelback heads (the tall ones) and a Z-28 high rise manifold, and a Muncie M-21 tranny. The rear end & drive shaft was also Chevy. The only thing that was left Pontiac was the frame, body & dash board. |
Metalstorm
| | Posted on Saturday, August 20, 2005 - 01:14 am: |
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Wesbone,
Keep us posted on your bike's progress. |
Branebanger
| | Posted on Saturday, August 20, 2005 - 01:16 am: |
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this reminds me of an agonizing problem I had (non bike related) with a robotic arm.
we tested everything in the system except for the entire wire harness, because .. er .. well that's a lot of work. and the symptoms we were getting told us a specific sensor was bad, or a specific board was going bad. we assumed we knew the scope of the problem based on symptoms, not actually seeing a root cause.
long story short, we end up changing/testing everything .. er .. except the harness. things work then don't.
finally we swap a new harness - everything's fine. we were pissed. we dissasembled the entire harness.
bingo - right away we see one problem. one set of wires had developed cracks next to each other and causing intermitent shorts when the wires "happend" to be in a certain physical position, and it wouldn't happen all the time. To make it worse, the short was being interpreted incorrectly by the system and causing weird behavior.
then after testing every wire in the harness, we find one more wire that had broken inside its casing, but the casing was intact and had no visible sign of damage/stress. the thing about this problem that was infuriating is that by us poking around while replacing something else, we probably accidentally moved that wire causing it to complete its circuit, then eventually it would break at some random point in time.
good luck finding your problem - leave no stone unturned. Please post when you find the cause |
Stevenorton
| | Posted on Saturday, August 20, 2005 - 05:02 am: |
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regarding bad bikes, I have one. I bought an x1 millenium model. It had had over 20 posts on the ukbeg site re recalls and failures. The owner had so many issues that he had taken the dealer to court. They resolved the issue by swapping the x1 for another one. It even needed a new clutch, starter moter and oil pressure switch between me putting a deposit down and collection. It was sold to me at a very good price, so I thought that if it did go wrong I had cash left to repair it myself. 7000 miles later (in 6 months with 6 weeks of with a broken elbow) all I have replaced or repaired is the tyres and a belt and that was stone cut. It is just a machine and sometimes •••• happens. The next owner could pick up a complete bargain if you decide to sell or carry on repairing it. I wonder if we will find out? |
Wesbone
| | Posted on Saturday, August 20, 2005 - 06:49 am: |
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hey guys no new word yet but i will keep yall posted |
Wesbone
| | Posted on Saturday, August 20, 2005 - 08:42 am: |
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I have some news that will make all of you guys laugh but it made me a little angry. I called the shop and they said they were looking at it but it fired right up like there was no problem. I was so mad because this is making me look like and idiot. I am so frustrated now it's not even funny, they are going to keep looking though, I'll keep ya posted. |
Wambo
| | Posted on Saturday, August 20, 2005 - 09:39 am: |
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No, it doesn't make me laugh. I think several of us have had the frustration of having a problem not show up when taken in for service on one vehicle or another in our lives. You may want to let one of the service people commute on your bike for a day or two, riding for a bit like you have and I'll bet they'll get stranded as well. The best way to re-create the problem is to duplicate the conditions in which you encountered the problem in the first place. |
Reepicheep
| | Posted on Saturday, August 20, 2005 - 10:23 am: |
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Wes, I don't think anyone there thinks for even a second you look like an idiot. I am sure they are all thinking "crap, it started, how the heck am I going to diagnose this one?".
Clearly, your dealer is in this with you.
Here's hoping for charred and smoking thingamabobs! |
Buellgator
| | Posted on Saturday, August 20, 2005 - 11:02 am: |
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Wes I am going to crank your bike up right now. |
Doughnut
| | Posted on Saturday, August 20, 2005 - 11:04 am: |
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"Drum roll" |
Buellgator
| | Posted on Saturday, August 20, 2005 - 11:06 am: |
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Bike cranks fine I'm gonna go take it for a spin and see what happens. |
Buellgator
| | Posted on Saturday, August 20, 2005 - 11:59 am: |
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I don't know how far your ride from work is, but I just put twenty miles on it. I did everything I could think of to get something to happen. I let it idle way down and cranked it back up. I rode with the high beam on. I'd turn it off and play with the passing lamp. I'd let the turn signals stay on well after the turns. When I came to stops I'd stay on both brakes and keep the brake light burning. I did some backroads stuff and some in town stuff. Got it into some traffic. Got the fan to kick on. Wes we'll keep looking but so far the bike is running great for us.
I may have to get me a set of those Sportecs for my bike. Is it just me or are they greasy when their cold? |
Wesbone
| | Posted on Saturday, August 20, 2005 - 12:36 pm: |
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keep it up and im sure it will mess up again. and yes they are a lil greasy but great when they warm up. thanks again |
Reepicheep
| | Posted on Saturday, August 20, 2005 - 12:57 pm: |
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 At least he doesnt say "those sportecs get a little squirrley when landing jumps! |
Wesbone
| | Posted on Monday, August 22, 2005 - 03:58 pm: |
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hey guys i got my bike back today. they replaced the ecm and so far they said thats all they could find. i just took it for a ride down the road and so far so good. we'll see how it goes. thanks again for all the suppor and suggestions. wesbone |
X1164
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 24, 2005 - 08:28 pm: |
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Wes whats up with the bike? Noticed you were riding today. Going to keep it or try to sell it. Birdman |
Reepicheep
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 24, 2005 - 09:24 pm: |
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Good luck Wes! That is plausible. The original short could have been causing some pretty fierce transients through the system, so after they got it fixed, the ECM was already half fried and had some flakey sensor inputs. Even when they fix the short, the damage to the ECM remained.
Hope that fixes it! |
Medic_2512
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 24, 2005 - 10:47 pm: |
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Goodluck with the bike. HAving a bike that blows fuses especially for the headlights is grounds for
the Safety Claus of the Lemon Law. Imagine cruising down the highway or around a turn one night, then the lights go out? Scary! Hope your problems are over. |
Rmp
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 24, 2005 - 10:59 pm: |
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X1164, He said he was going to make a couple of phone calls and see about a trade in on a Ulysses. It would fit him perfect!! Getting a new bike can definately make someone feel better about this situation. Rob |
Buellgator
| | Posted on Monday, August 29, 2005 - 12:53 pm: |
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Reep,
That's exactly what I was thinking.
I talked to Wes a couple of days ago and everything seems to be working good so far. I'm keeping my fingers crossed, so that the next time he shows up it's just to say "Hi." |
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