| Author | Message | ||
     Court |
I have handled it. Lively discussion, fine. But, I drew my once a year line. Wording was edited, content was not. End of the matter. Court | ||
| Psychobueller |
Jose wrote: I have heard it called the UN-Bike: UNderpowered, UNreliable, UNcompetitive price wise.......... I have heard much worse comments at the racing events where the PRO THUNDER bikes were racing. I hope the new bikes change the UNRELIABLE perception, and the design is obviously geared to be simple to maintain and to work on. All signs so far point in a positive direction, except for some loud fuel pumps, clicking front brakes and melting chin spoilers....... Unfortunately the other two perceptions remain. The latest review in Motorcyclist ( where they basically dismiss the engine as a "lump" and call the bike "an oxymoron powered by an anachronism" ) unfortunately will do a lot to sway the "Maybe they got it right this time" crowd to stay away. The "SPEC BENCH RACER/Flavor of the Week" crowd is still not interested from the comments I have heard at the tracks and the bike shows. This crowd only cares about HP numbers, and it's also the YOUNG crowd that HD/Buell have been trying so hard to reel in. -------------------------------------------------- On Saturday my Dad took his M2 to a sportbike open house at out local Honda/Triumph/Ducati dealer. He said that he noticed a lot more questions and commentary on his Buell than ever before. These squidly types seem to be gaining respect for Buell. I think this is due to all the press (and controversy) that the XB9R has garnered. | ||
| Kim |
In the same issue of Motorcyclist they also say (No one expects Ducati to make big power from an old engine,and we're glad the company resisted the temptation.) Granted this is in an article about the 620 Monster but can be applied to all air cooled Ducks. So why are expectations higher for Buell than Ducati? Yes, something to compete with 998&748 would be nice. But when has just having more horsepower made any of us a better rider? Kim Oh Yeah, Real Ducatis have bevel drives! | ||
| X1glider |
Duck, Dave, anyone: You are right and I make my apology public. There was a better word. I don't claim to be an eloquent speaker or PC and once gain I have put my foot in my mouth. But I am not a prejudiced person. My Sept 11 post confirms it and so do my vast number of Asian friends. I won't define what the "N" word really means but even tho I am white, I myself can be one some days. It's not a color thing to everyone. But, once again, I do apologize and thank the moderator for the edit. Nuff said and let's put it behind us. Back to bike talk. | ||
| Darthane |
Davegess - you're going to LOVE this bike. I've got about 1300 miles on my Firebolt now and you just wait. From 3000RPMS up this thing accelerates incredibly fast. Lower overall weight and low rider weight (I weigh about 135 sopping wet) contribute to that, and I'd have no doubts that this bike can beat a stock M2 and possibly even a stock X1. And I'm sorry, but in the hands of a rider that really knows his stuff (and no, I don't consider myself one yet by any stretch of the imagination) no bike will beat the XB platform in the turns. R or S. And might I just add that that ZTL brake kicks royal butt. Bryan | ||
| Blake |
The XB9S... Make it a 1200 that still revs to 8 grand, and I think we will all be happy. I am still very anxious to have a test ride on one. Court, Thanks. | ||
| Rd350 |
Last time I checked the older X-1 is faster in the quarter mile than the new XB9r. 11.75 to 12.85. (Motorcyclist mag.) So the older engine is faster. I also have a hard time understand how Buell could put so much time and money into fixing all the weak points on the older bikes, even in the last year of 2002 and than just dump the whole line and start over. And you guys were talking about weight on the bikes I thought the XB weighs 450 pds wet and the lighting is 460 pds wet. Am I wrong on this? Also why hasn't anyone made anything after market like exhaust for the XB. I remember when the lighting came out everyone was making things for it.. It seems that the after market isn't interested in the XB.. Am I wrong on this? | ||
| Jdbuellx1 |
rd350 The XB's are 385 lbs dry and I don't know the exact conversion of gas and oil to lbs but I'm guessing add another 30-40 lbs on that for around 415-425 wet. The X1 is 440 lbs dry(unless my owners manual is wrong) and fuel and oil would add 40-50 lbs more which would be around 480-490 lbs approx. The XB is 55 lbs lighter than the X1 rather than 100 lbs like I said earlier but it's still quite a difference for 9 HP to really make a difference, but torque on the other hand dropped from 90ft-lb @ 5500 rpm on the X1 to 68ft-lb @ 5500 rpm on the XB which is a little hard to swallow when Buells are known for there torque. But if you do the math the XB's torque to weight ratio beats the X1 by .8 ft-lb. Justin | ||
| Eeeeek |
Fact 1: The XB, wet, is 450 pounds. Fact 2: The reason you aren't seeing any aftermarket parts for the XB's yet is H-D is treating it like a Harley. As Reg once stated, you can't do this with a Buell. They should have learned a lesson from their partner, Ford, and relased a dozen of the damn things to aftermarket companies months ago. Ford did this with the Focus and consequently, Focuses are doing well in the market vs the imports. H-D still sees aftermarket companies as the enemy and has, in my opinion, shot themselves in the foot. What works for H-D doesn't work for Buell. We've seen this time and time again. I honestly think the only reason H-D keep Buell around is for a tax write off. Cecil, of all people, came up with an excelent point. The XB9S should have come out first and it should have been named the S1 Lightning. The 9s looks to be more in line with Buell's tradition. I think the XB9S is a hot little bike: it reminds me of what the Europeans have been doing with Buells for years and wheras I don't like the lil' bolt, I think the new 9S is a great idea, just bump up the displacement to 1200 and they've got something! Man, it's hard to not get emotional wiht Buells. Vik | ||
| Court |
>>>>What works for H-D doesn't work for Buell. That's an accurate statement. . . . >>>>I honestly think the only reason H-D keep Buell around is for a tax write off. That makes great chatter, but it's rediculous. Trust me, in a time when shareholders are watching publicly traded companies as never before, the idea that a company with some absurd number of consecutive quarters of increased earnings is going to do something as a "tax write off" doesn't hold water. Court | ||
| Rick_A |
José...I totally disagree with you on one point:
Gimme a break. ProThunder Buells are modded to the max. How many people could afford that technology?; unobtanium this and that, a set of full-coverage CF bodywork, etc, etc? Last time I looked no other sportbike company was selling factory superbikes to the general public. Comparing the XB to the SV...I'm comming around to this, really. As I practice wheelies and stoppies on the S1 from time to time...I've thought the SV could be perfect for this...a bike I could dump and not feel guilty over! About Buell power...I recently read the Motor Cyclist "Hooligan-Bike Special". I don't understand why the XB is compared to the repliracers in their shootout instead of being compared to it's real competition that the friggin' mag was supposed to be about. Same thing here...get over it folks...Buells are slow (as far as HP and top speed are concerned)...HP is not everything. They are cutting edge chassis' with a Sporster derived motor. That's as dysfunctional as it gets...and I love it. The potential is there...just reach into your checkbook. | ||
| Eeeeek |
Ah, I thought I might get a stir out of you, Court. Of course no company wants to loose money, so explain to me what the hell they're doing with Buell? Just so I'm not all negative: I have a lot of respect for the testing they've put into the XB's They seem to be showing a real commitment to delivering a product that won't fall apart. I just wonder who exactly will be the market for that product. I also see the XB9S as a very good thing. The 9R I still don't understand; however, the 9S, to me, is a Buell as a Buell should be (well, give it a few more horsies). I really like the 9S idea. I know it's not that much different, but it doesn't look to me like it's pretending to be anything else. I really like it. Weird. Vik | ||
| Court |
Ahh . . . The tie that binds us. The common porpoensity to be prematurely seperated from our hard earned funds and to seek out the company of other similarly afflicted individuals. Vik: Stir? . . heck, I was headed to SMF to hunt you down  We agree. We'll find something else to argue about in Utah.....er, Nevada....perhaps we'll argue about what state we're in and if it'd be better with 10 more HP. Court | ||
| José_Quiñones |
These are the best numbers I found, please correct them if you can find more accurate numbers.  1996 Buell S1 - 450 pounds wet, 78 RWHP 68 pounds/foot RWTQ, 5.76 pounds/hp  1998 S1 White Lighting - 460 pounds wet, 88.5 RWHP, 76 lb/ft RWTQ, 5.19 pounds/hp  1999 X1 - 490 pounds wet, 85 RWHP, 73 pounds/ft RWTQ, 5.76 pounds/hp  2003 XB9S - probably around 450 pounds, 78 RWHP, 62 pounds/ft RWTQ, 5.76 pounds/hp Every bike has been an improvement, the XB9R/S is the best yet, but the numbers (what a lot of people look at) don't reflect it. Always been the case with Buells, which makes marketing stay up all night. | ||
| Shotgun |
Ok, you want a short bike that Blastoids can step up to? How about putting the Firebolt engine in the Blast? Keep the price down around $6500-7000 and get all the Blast owners who love the way the thing handles and fits to upgrade to the transition bike. | ||
| José_Quiñones |
How about a big bore Blast (600cc plus) with the Firebolt top end so it can rev to 7500 rpm, the firebolt transmission shift drum so you won't need that lever that only people with size 12 shoes can operate, 17" wheels, and make it look like the Dirt Track Blast. Makes more sense to me. | ||
| José_Quiñones |
Rick I don't think we are disagreeing. yes racing is expensive. However Aprilia (RSV) Ducati (998) Kawasaki (ZX7R) and Honda (RC51) sell a street version of the race bikes that you see on Speedvision that are remarkably similar to the untrained eye. Of course they have a bunch of unobtanium parts. The point is they are closer to their street version than the XB9R is, which has 350 extra ccs, the full fairing, the second front brake and other assorted stuff, and to add insult to injury, you don't see the Pro Thunder Buells on TV, and when they win like they did at Loudon and Laguna Seca, you don't see that on TV either. It would be nice to buy something that LOOKED like this at your local Buell dealer. | ||
| Jima4media |
Last Thursday I got to hear Mike Ciccoto take the Racing 'Bolt around Laguna Seca. It was the best sounding bike around the track that day. That is the bike that I want. On Friday I took another ride on the Firebolt XB9R again. This time instead of the streets of Long Beach, I rode the back roads of Laguna Seca. It was a better experience than the first time I rode it, and that experience was good. In the afternoon I watched as Mike won the Pro Thunder race, and thought it is a bitter sweet experience, because I knew it was the last Pro Thunder race that I would see. Buell probably won't be supporting Pro Thunder next year under WERA. Saturday I got word of the XB9S from Leslie Hudson, and I was somewhat dissapointed. The same motor and frame for next year? A paint change? I have to wait another 12 months for something new again, or build it myself, or buy another manufacturers product? I like some features of the XB9S, like the alumnum tail section and the yellow plastic. But for someone with an X-1, why would I want to down-grade to an XB motor, except for the slightly better handling of the Firebolt? Memo to Buell - Marketing 101 1. It is cheaper to keep existing customers than to create new ones. 2. Don't introduce anything that is going to alienate your existing customers. 3. When you have an opportunity to show your product to 98,000 bikers at the same time, you should take advantage of it. The dealer show shouldn't have been scheduled the same week as Laguna Seca. It wouldn't have been too much work to throw an XB9S on the Demo Truck and shown it off to the world. 4.When you win a race, have the winner and his bike show up at the scheduled dinner. That would have scored a lot of points with your customer base. Did somebody skip these chapters in marketing class? Is anybody out there listening to customers? Jim X-2.5 | ||
| Rick_A |
It's impossible to please everyone. Make the most of what daddy Buell gives you. | ||
| Rick_A |
It's funny how with every new model comes a massive flow of skeptism...then, months later, to hear from ecstatic owners. | ||
| Two_Buells |
I just can't wait to see the numbers of a XB9R/S with a race kit...  better yet, I can't wait to ride a XB with a race kit  | ||
| Jima4media |
The Race Kit is the one thing I haven't heard anything about from the dealer meeting. When is it going to be available? How much is it? I did hear that it was going to add 5HP in the mid-range and 5 footpounds of torque. Jim | ||
| Anonymous |
It makes perfect marketing sense to release the firebolt first . . . particularly when you consider all the X1's and M2's currently on Dealer floors. | ||
| Jmartz |
Now that Buell has corrected the various styling items I would have changed on the XB, I'm liking the new concept a bit more. I intensly disliked the "full floating" fairing with its necessary crab eye signals. In its place is a smaller flyscreen with twin beams, cool... The tail, which was way too long, now ends over the rear axle, good for you Buell... The bars over clipons with sunflower mirros, I'm not too sure about, but like I've done with all my bikes, signals and mirrors to the trash the moment it gets home. Now to get me to buy it I need the motor to make 120 RWHP | ||
| José_Quiñones |
The problem with aftermarket mufflers will be for them to match the way it mounts to the bike and the chin spoiler mounts exactly like the factory muffler. | ||
| Jrh |
I agree with everything Jmartz just said. This model has me more interested in seeing it in the flesh than any manufacturers bikes have in the last several years,though$1000 or so for a factory race kit that probably gives 5 or 6 mid range hp,maybe 1 or 2 on up,thats not gonna cut it for me.But like Blake+Eeeeek said,a 1200cc version would be great,put the power back into at least the S1W range + i could really get interested.This is really a neat bike. Just like the S1,the narrow focus of this bike is exactly why i like it so much. Someone said maybe the S would be at dealers this Fall,any Anonys here know anything about that? | ||
| Gravedigger |
I guess I still just don't get it? What is the difference between this bike and the firebolt besides fairings?? am I missing something here? | ||
| Mavinwy |
Jose, The buell site lists the weight at 385 lbs, so 4.93 lbs/hp. Personally, I like the look of the "new" fram buells, I just want to give them a couple years to shake them down. Til then, will stick to the blast... | ||
| Jima4media |
Keith, Yes, you missed the biggest change of all - black and yellow plastic. Jim, Jose was quoting wet weights. Have you ever ridden a dry bike? They don't run too well. Jim X-2.5 | ||
| Gravedigger |
thats what I was asking, besides the fairings or plastic, what is the difference? |
