| Author | Message | ||
     Davegess |
All the dealers around here are sellng at MSRP. One is even throwing in freight and setup for free. Bikes are selling but no one has a real waitng list as far as I can tell, I could have two for delivery in the next couple of weeks at MSRP. BTW these dealers don't have a lot of tube frames Buells in stock either. They say they are moving out pretty well. Dave | ||
| Rick_A |
I agree with Aaron completely. The Firebolt and S1 are distant relatives, at best...fixing the S1...that bike was friggin' perfect  Buell will always have a loyal base. Sheer numbers mean nothing. I don't think it's got anything to do with competition with anyone. Buell's always been playing their own game, the way I see it. If it wasn't so, I wouldn't own one. | ||
| Oldman |
as far as insurance goes, state farm does it by motor size, of course i havn't told them that i put the big bore kit in the old lady's trike yet? must have forgot  | ||
| Imonabuss |
Right, Jose, "when the street fighter V-Rod comes out in July". When it doesn't happen (and it won't), how will you feel then? Guys, if you actually can ride, just try a Firebolt. It's a treat like no other. The European magazines are gaga over an American sport motorcycle, and all we can do is whine about it? Maybe it's like my European friends say..."the average American sport rider can't ride, they scare themselve going in straight lines...that's why they buy Hayabusas and V-Maxes." Well, my Firebolt should be in soon, and I can't wait to take it out in the twisties. I'll leave the smoking burnouts and helmetless stoppies to the posers. I can ride well enough to appreciate real handling...can you? | ||
| Racerboy |
José...What do you know about the streefighter VROD?...I have only seen a sketch in either Motorcyclist or Cycle World, can't remember which...If they do this and badge it as a H-D, don't you see this as a stab in the back of Erik?...But, from a marketing standpoint, as evidenced by the discussion above re MSRP, we have been conditioned to pay above MSRP consistently only for one brand, and it's not Buell, so a H-D badge makes more sense if you're an MBA or a stockholder...John and I were talking earlier this evening and we're both kind of Buell bummed right now...We don't know why they announced the end of the tubies with no follow along scoots...Yea, we do know...H-D was losing their backside on them...But, to not announce that a replacement to, say, our S3T's was in the works?...Obviously, the 'Bolt holds no interest for either of us...John's longest day was over 1,000 miles and mine a bit more and can you imagine doing that on a 'Bolt?...Hell, we'll probably put 7,500 to 8,000 miles on during the CA trip... Did you see the post about Bob Mackie, from Downunder, coming to the Gap with us?...We're trying to arrange a rental Buell with Knoxville H-D for him...Keith is working on it... Our BRAG club is a mess...Our sponsoring dealer lost their H-D franchise to another area dealer and that dealer is kind of blackballed by all the other HOG chapters and dealers...The dealer that purchased ours now has two here and another 90 miles away...We're meeting this Tuesday to decide what to do...We did not renew our club because we knew this was happening and wanted to see how it would shake out...If I were a betting man, I'd bet we end up being national BRAG memebers and go back to being an unofficial Buell club (SLAB) and there's nothing wrong with that...That seems to be the conscientious but the vote Tuesday will decide... Well, we're only about three weeks away from heading for the left coast...John's scoot has had a heart transplant and new lipstick...The color is SOOOO cool...He's got to get some confidence miles on it now before the trip...Les is in Japan...She took some language lessons before the trip...As you know, she saves her writing for "Fuell" but I'll try to worm some info from her about her trip (bet she loses weight over there, everyone does!)... Well enough of this...Time for bed...We've got a 310 mile day planned for the club this Sunday...The wx is unbelievable for this early...Say hi to Linda for us... See Ya! Bob | ||
| Elvis |
Horsepower, horsepower, horsepower. How many of you ride at or close to the red line for any length of time? The kind of power I want is power that's available when I see the guy next to me picking his nose and drifting into my lane. I want to twist the throttle and take off. I don't want to have to downshift and rev up to 15,000 rpm. I would like to see someone who knows a little bit about torque curves to do an analysis. My guess is that at normal, typical riding rpm's the Firebolt will have more horsepower available at your wrist than typical Japanese bikes. Isn't that more important than absolute peak horsepower that you hit maybe three or four times a year? | ||
| Eeeeek |
Elvis, Sure, the lil' bolt has more torque than a 600. My TLR puts out 75 ft/lbs of torque at the rear wheel and other litre bikes put out more. As for only hitting peak hp "threee or four times a year," the jap bikes have six gears, not just a sixth gear. Translation: the power is usable coming out of a corner at 30 mph, not just at 170 mph. Something that really drove this home to me was riding a Confederate GT. The bike had a 113 ci S&S engine and gobs of power. I was doing roll ons vs S1W's and X1's and the Confederate was edging out the Buells. I then did a roll on vs a ZX9 and got DESTROYED! Take out a Honda 954 some time. I think you'll be surprized by how well it handles and how usuable the power is. Then try any of the toerh litre bikes. IT IS POSSIBLE TO HAVE THE BEST OF BOTH WORLDS. I WANT Buell to do well; I just can't understand this new engine. I don't have to understand it, either. Erik isn't making bikes for me and that's OK. I'd like it if he made a bike for me and I think quite a few oter people would like that bike, too. Shoot, he could prove me wrong and the lil' bolt could be a huge hit: I just don't see it happening in it's current form. OK, I'm done speaking as though I have any idea what's going on. Vik | ||
| José_Quiñones |
Bob, Bummer about the Brag chapter! Deals Gap should be a lot of fun again. VRSF (Streetfighter VROD) All I know is what I have read and what one can logically conclude when HD says that "The VROD is the first in a new family of performance bikes". It doesn't take a civil engineer or even a bus driver to figure out what's coming next! If I'm wrong I'll be the first one here posting that I was wrong. No big deal. But I like my odds, so I won't be the one eating humble pie in July. | ||
| Aaron |
"My TLR puts out 75 ft/lbs of torque at the rear wheel" Vik, if that statement is true, I'll drag race you with my Blast, and win. Easily. (methinks you're confusing rear wheel torque with engine torque as measured at the rear wheel) | ||
| S320002 |
Lots of interesting opinions lately. Insurance. Erik told a realy good story about how he convinced the insurance companies to bring rates down for Buells. It still makes me laugh when I think about what the looks on those insurance guys faces must have been like. Don't be surprised if FB rates get lowered. VROD "Street Fighter". When it comes out expect something more akin to the Dyna Sport. HD and Buell "competing". If HD had tried to go head to head with other motorcycle companies after the AMF debacle they would be long gone. Instead they continued in their own direction and created the cruiser market which, if you used the thinking of many on this board, should never have made it. XB9R. A bike with world class handling and less than "killer" power. You can take the killer part any way you choose. A sportbike whose power does not exceed the limits of is chassis and tires is a good thing. Even with 120 RWHP the FB would not win many drag races, the wheel base is too short. If egos were put aside the vast majority of those here would find a 90 HP Firebolt to be much more fun and useful in the real world than a 120 HP repliracer. Like Harley in the 1970s Buell is in a class of it's own. Harley has done quite well since it was given up for dead. I would expect no less from Erik Buell and company. Greg | ||
| Eeeeek |
Symantecs, Aaron? My dyno chart show's SAE torque (ft-lbs). Measurement comes from the rear wheel...what's the diffrence? Vik | ||
| Elvis |
Vik, Thanks for the input. You are certainly correct, a skilled rider working the gearbox could keep the bike at or near the redline nearly constantly. Maybe I'm old, but I don't ride like that. My point is I need usable power and it really comes down to the shape of horsepower/torque curve. I don't really know what the Firebolt horsepower/torque curve looks like, but I would hope it is flatter than some of the hyper bikes. I want to have a reasonable amount of horsepower/torque at my common RPM range. If the curve is very steep, you may max out at a very high value at a very high RPM, but you may only have 50% of that at your real cruising RPM's. As an example consider two bikes, bike A and bike B. For simplicity assume they both have a 10,000 RPM redline. Bike A produces 150 HP at 10,000 RPM and 75 HP at 5,000 RPM. Bike B produces 100 HP at 10,000 RPM and 80 HP at 5,000 RPM. I want bike B because 95% of the time I have more horsepower than bike A and the other 5% of the time is only good for bragging and showing off (I am too old for either of those). Now I realize my example is very simplistic and in reality, the Firebolt probably doesn't surpass the hyper bikes even at normal engine speeds, but it at least narrows the perceived gap and makes the bike more useful for my riding. | ||
| Imonabuss |
Oh yes you will, Jose. But humble pie must be one of your favorites, I guess...  | ||
| Axtell |
Well Aaron, now you did it. Vik, he right--I am doing a dyno/engine hop up article for Ironworks and will finish opening up this can of worms. Vik, here is a different way to look at it---if you do have 75 ponds-feet of torque @ the rear wheel in 6th (?) gear and have appoximately a 4.00 overall gear ratio ( primary reduction X gearbox reduction X rear chain reduction) then you would be blessed with appox. 19-24 @ the crank depending on losses down the drivetrain. Our 107 ci fxdx is makeing over 350 lbs ft @ the rearwheel in 5th gear. | ||
| Eeeeek |
Hmmm...now I really need help. My dyno run was in 5th and I thought that 5th was about 1.00. I must be looking at something wrong. Elvis, I looked at dyno charts of some of the hyoer bikes and when compared to the Buell, they were almost identical...unitl about 7,000 rpms. The Buell would hit the rev limmiter and the other bikes would keep going. These bike have usable power across the range. So why the hell do I own a Buell? Because The Buell is just so much fun! I know what you're saying, it's easy to ride a Buell well. It's predictable, solid and raw. It's a jump start to a smile, but it's not competition to a race replica. Simply, a Buell is what it is. It can be more and it's easy to modify. It's not a good value when you consider what it takes to bring it up to specs with a superbike, but it's a fun project and a kick in the pants to ride. I'm faster on a TLR, but I have more fun on an X1 on some roads. Vik | ||
| Dynarider |
Just rode a buddies new CBR954 today. All I can say is OMG!!! What a trip that thing is, power & more power everywhere & anywhere. My X1 is no slouch, but it wont do 2nd gear wheelies with my big ass on it, & it tops out at 140. The 954 would wheelie in 2nd & 3rd without me even trying to. Didnt have the balls to try a 100mph 4th gear wheelie. And it sure felt stable & appeared to handle great. I can probably go thru curves faster on the Buell, most likely because the bikes power does not intimidate me at all. I can use it all & then some, whereas the 954 would probably make me soil my pants if I opened it up around a nice curve. I sure wish Buell would build something like this bike instead of the lil bolt. I want big power & handling & I would love to have it from an american company. | ||
| Elvis |
Vik, That answers my question. Thanks. | ||
| Rick_A |
Vik, that's great and all...but I think the torque curve is what really gives a bike its character on the street. | ||
| Axtell |
Vik, the transmision on a buell would be 1-1 in 5th gear but you still have the primary and final gearing leveraging the torque. | ||
| Tripper |
VIKster - I got to MITM too late to meet ya. Have you heard from Lurch? Did he survive? Did his relationship survive? You guys are brutal on girlfriends. I was hoping to meet Cecil, but since my isolators appear to have gone soft and my shock blew oil, it's probably better that he wasn't around. The only thing better would have been to have the KXKidd make fun of my hard to find Molten Orange bike. And one more thing, how come MikeyP sets his personal top speed record on a borrowed bike... yours? Is the RC-51 not able to reach such velocities? I hope you returned the favor. 'gards, Tripper  oops, I do have a Firebolt reserved so I am on topic. | ||
| José_Quiñones |
Well Harvey, I'm still waiting for you to eat your slice after you posted this brilliant observation:
After I posted this picture and this quote: 
You really know your Buells, I guess when you RODE the Firebolt you didn't notice that the gauges sweep when you turn on the ignition!!!! | ||
| S320002 |
JQ, Enough with the snotty attitude already. You lied, he believed you.  Lighten up. Life's more fun with a smile on your face. Greg  | ||
| Aaron |
Vik: here's something else to think about ... Per hp = (torque * rpm) / 5252 ... when rpm is 5252, hp = torque. Applies to any rotating power source. Your dyno sheet shows them equal at 5252 engine rpm, not rear wheel rpm, right? If the hp and the torque are the same at 5252 engine rpm, it has to be engine torque. If they were showing rear wheel torque, they'd be equal at 5252 rear wheel rpm (about 388mph with a 170/60). Hp is the same at either place, so it's irrelevant (lessee if someone will take the bait on that statement). | ||
| Axtell |
ok I'll take the bait, the horsepower won't be the same @ either place...the hp will be degraded by losses (chains,gears,etc) by the time it gets to the rear wheel. The torque also gets degraded by the same losses but it does get leveraged up by ratios. :-) | ||
| Aaron |
But the engine sees those same losses too, unless you disconnect it! | ||
| Jmartz |
Had an opportunity to whack the throttle on an idling XB. I was expecting a rapid spin up due to its short stroke. Needless to say, I did not notice any difference from my S1. Got to ride this bike. I am very curious to see how it feels and how it compares to my slightly modified old and now discontinued (and heavier) tube framed Buell. Jose | ||
| Superbad |
I have a deposit down on a Blue Firebolt. I can't pick the bike up until after the April 27th event. They need to have at least one bike to show off. I agreed to wait until early may to pick it up. The local dealer will be receiving 3 bikes total, then nothing until about september (their story). The other blue one had been reserved and I really am not too hot on the white color. Nice board here I just found it tonight. Expect me to be a frequent visitor/poster. I currently own a 97 Ducati 748 with 853 motor putting out 108.1 RWHP. I will be keeping the Ducati and think the Buell will make a great addition. Bobby | ||
| Peter |
Bobby, Welcome. There's a lot of people here chafing at the bit to see what the Firebolt will be like in the real world playground. Let us know what you think when you have it. PPiA | ||
| Rashomon |
"VROD "Street Fighter". When it comes out expect something more akin to the Dyna Sport." What the next Revolution-powered bike will be is still speculation; Harley is keeping a very tight lid on it, and no one at an American magazine is doing more than making an educated guess in article's such as the CW one. However, one thing is safe to say: it will not be a lightweight. Given that it's likely to use a variant of the V-Rod's frame, it will weigh close to 600 pounds. It may be a very nice bike, but it won't be a Buell. I would also be surprised if it has adequate ground clearance, as Harley will probably place the bike's appearance as more important than a 45-degree lean angle. | ||
| Libnosis |
Bobby, Welcome aboard! This board is very addictive. You've been warned. I'd love to see some pix of the Ducati and the Firebolt. lib |
