| Author | Message | ||
     S320002 |
XBs are in AZ. I'd guess we're about at far from E.T. as you can get in the 48 states. Greg | ||
| Torqd |
White firebolt here in Peoria, IL. They say they got it in on saturday...looks nice. Two things I didn't care for were the seams on the bodywork (the molding lines... you could see them all) and the 11k price. Can't wait to ride one. | ||
| Ramon |
11k in Peroria? Is that gouging? Anyone else have a OTD price? -ramon | ||
| Spike |
Blake, Ray Price HD/Buell (where I work) just set up their XB9R today and has a dyno. I'll see what I can do. Just in case I'm slow, is there a consolation prize for 2nd place?  Spike '99 Cyclone '02 Lowrider (temporary) | ||
| Blake |
Spike, You bet! I'll send you a pic of the winner's T-Shirt.  All, Stopped by Lone Star HD/Buell/Triumph today for a new rear tire/mounting. They had a white XB9R parked enticingly on the front lawn head to head with a VRod. Orin, the owner and a great guy, confided that he will be getting three more then nothing until August when he is supposed to get eight. BTW ALL four Firebolts are presold. And Orin sold them at list. He's a real credit to Buell. I want one. Gotta save the pennies. | ||
| X96283 |
Cycle City Limited in Oahu is selling them at MSRP + 1600. I am tracking all of the hype from Bosnia now. Missing my M2 more than ever. Sorry to hear that the prices back home are so high. My buddy put money down to get on the list only to find out that he can save 1600 if he goes to the mainland (48) to get one. Way to go Cycle City...  If you had a budget of say 3000 for your M2-modification-budget when you came home, what would you do? Hypothetically speaking, of course. | ||
| Arbalest |
Portland, ME Big Moose Harley Davidson (a Cal Reynolds dealership)has a white XB. Selling at MSRP plus freight, setup etc. They gouge mightily on HD's ($3000 over retail, new and used), but sell Buells at MSRP. | ||
| Ramon |
The reason I originally asked about gouging is because once HD dealers really realize the demand for the XB, I suspect that they will be doing some Harley-Style dealer mark-up on the bike(i.e v-rods are selling for 25,000 where i live). You guys see any chance of something like that happening w/the XB??? -ramon | ||
| X1glider |
I think once they get more XBs regularly, we might pay 1k over MSRP. That's what Mancuso did with all their Buells. At the moment they only have one XB and it's still at MSRP. I view Buell as the Saturn of the HD umbrella company. I don't think we'll see BIG gouging like on the HD line. HD doesn't survive by seling bikes, they make money selling parts and merchandise. Dealerships make their money selling parts, service and merchandise. Selling new bikes is just a little side job. I think Buells will stay low because they know they need to build a bigger fan base. I see HDs everywhere and perhaps 4 Buells a year on the road. I know there's more out there, I just don't know where. That should say something. | ||
| S320002 |
The one XB I checked on was priced at MSRP (Chandler Buell/HD in Chandler,AZ). Greg | ||
| Jmartz |
Last night elements from one of Atlanta's HD/Buell dealerships brought an XB to the Vortex, our local (mostly sport) biker bar. To my surprise the new Buell attracted little or no attentention. The group in attendance was likely in excess of 100 bikes. This observation suggests customers for Buell's new model are going to remain a niche group. Great for us owners of this "speciaty" brand but I'm not sure if this is the intention of the company that produces them. | ||
| M2cyclone00 |
X1glider, HD makes far more on new bike sales than parts. From their 1st qtr earnings they had total sales of $747 mm from bike sales, $131 mm from parts & accessories, & $42 mm from financial services. | ||
| Jima4media |
Jose, I consider the Firebolt a replacement for the S1 in the Buell lineup. It fixes almost everything that was wrong with the S1. Too heavy, uncomfortable seat, hot exhaust pipe next to your leg, and the XB has a quarter fairing and fuel injection. Now Buell has to come up with a replacement for the X-1, M2, and S3. I think that can be done with the XB motor with simple bolt-ons, and frame changes. We'll probably see some of these models in July. Finally, I'd like to see a carbon fiber 20th Anniversary XB, Erik Buell signature model with polished aluminum frame and swingarm, and turbo charger. 130 rwhp. $17,000. Then I'd know that BMC was serious about building street bikes for hooligans. Jim X-2.5 | ||
| X1glider |
M2cyclone00, are those figures, gross sales or profit? Naturally a whole bike costs more than a chrome trim ring, but I bet there's much more profit in the accesories. I didn't see a figure for licensing their name either. I know they make a lot from letting other people use it. I have no proof, I'm just guessing from what I actually see going on in the streets. All I know is that I wish I had invested in them 10 years ago when they were growing in leaps and bounds. Hell, I wish I had the money to invest. They're ability to make the stockholders money is a credit to their marketing departments' talents. | ||
| Aaron |
Lack of a quarter-fairing and injection were deficiencies of the S1? Jim, Jim, Jim, you miss the whole point of the S1  | ||
| Lsr_Bbs |
Jmartz, I wouldn't read too much into it. W/o knowing this particular crowd, but squid crowds in general...if it's not the bike/model that's been plastered on the cover of sport rider (or other trash - such as the furcovered wrecks the starboyz and their ilk throw down the pavement) for months, they probably wouldn't know what it is. Ask around and see how many a) know what a Benelli is; b) if so, how many cyls; and c) that there *is* going to be a production bike. ...but Buell will still be a niche player for quite some time (not a bad thing, IMO)...no different than Guzzis or Triumphs. Neil Garretson X0.5 | ||
| Jim_M |
Aaron, I didn't take those items as a deficiency, but as an update. Conceptwise, I too thought the FB as an updated version of the S1, but with the 1/4 fairing and FI. I see both the hard data numbers and it's place in the world as being very similar to the S1. | ||
| Aaron |
Man, I sure don't see it as an updated S1. It totally abandons the S1 concept of a raw, naked, minimalist, simple, unrefined streetfighter. It's 180 degrees the opposite direction from where I sit. | ||
| Jim_M |
How would you classify the FB, in the grand scheme of things? | ||
| S2pido |
The 'Bolt is a semi-squidly lil' Buell. | ||
| M2cyclone00 |
X1glider, those are gross sales. Net earnings were $120mm. Their earnings reports aren't detailed enough to tell what their profit margin is in motorcycles vs parts & accessories. I'm sure parts & accessories would have a higher profit margin. But with $120mm net earnings, most of that had to come from motorcycles. Gross sales from motorcycles is also growing faster than parts & accessories. Both are obviously important for their continued growth. The licensing probably fell under general merchandise where they had $42mm of gross sales. All those coffe mugs, stuffed pigs, notebooks, pocket knives. | ||
| X1glider |
hehe Forgot all about the stuffed pigs. I still believe that the Buell profit margin will remain really low compared to Big Daddy's bikes. 1k over MSRP. In all the years I've looked the Buells before buying mine, 1k over was the most I saw. It'll have to be if they want to steal away the rice rocket crowd. | ||
| Buelliedan |
If a Firebolt is priced 1k over MSRP that would put it at $11,000. More than any other liter bikes from japan. If dealers insist on that pricing they would be guilty of murdering the bolt before it even had a chance. Very few people will pay that much money for a underpowered, untested bike who's company has a really horrible reputation as far as reliability and dealers go. | ||
| X1glider |
Correct sir. Yamaha R1=$10,299 for 154 HP, FZ1=$8500 (Jap Buell). Hard to compete. I guess this means we're not that bright, huh? I've always had a hard time deciding if HD and Buell can't compete...or won't, because they want us to buy their aftermarket stuff to make it compete. I'll bet this will be a controversial topic. | ||
| Aaron |
Classify the XB? Even Buell has struggled to classify it, coining this "Sportfighter" moniker for it. As someone I respect very much put it, it carves yet another, finer niche into a wide spectrum of bikes (those niches are getting awfully narrow, though). It brings some neat ideas to the party, and I like that, but it's not a whole new kind of motorcycle, it sits in between a couple of existing types. It ain't no S1. Buell really stepped out there with the S1. It was (and is) way out in left field. Not an altered version or mixture of anything, it set a whole new standard, defined a whole new kind of bike. I think it's a shame they dropped it. In many ways, it defined the company in the marketplace. | ||
| José_Quiñones |
I think he meant 1k over the invoice price. Another thing to consider with the FB is the insurance. The quotes I have seen have been much more expensive than for the X1. Say you're a squid, if you are going to pay "crotch rocket" prices for your insurance on an XB, why don't you just go ahead and buy a 140 hp "crotch rocket" for the same price instead of an American 80hp "crotch rocket" with the same insurance hit? Buell, you need to get on the phone and set the insurance companies straight and explain them the difference between a Yamaha R1 and a Firebolt. If you can explain that to them then you can explain it to the squids too......... | ||
| Court |
Wise words and even Miguel Galuzzi would concur that the S-1 and the Ducati Monster and much different bikes. Court | ||
| José_Quiñones |
The VROD shows that HD can compete and win the HP game in a target market when they want to. That engine kicks ass, it has better 60-90 top gear roll on times than many sportbikes. When the streetfigher HD-badged VROD comes out this July a lot of people on this board will be making hard choices. Buell can't compete with an aircooled engine simply becase of EPA drive by noise laws. They and Aaron and everybody else here can build a streetable 120 hp air cooled engine, but it will make so much noise that it will never pass the test that Buell as a manufacturer has to submit the bikes to. Which his why they sell you the go fast stuff as an "off road use only" option. Once the EPA decides to stop this little game, we'll be forced to ride stock bikes all the time. Listen to the Pro Thunder Buells sometime and you'll see what I mean. The XB is definetly quieter than our engines, but it's still noisy relative to a water cooled engine like the Revolution. I hope they have found more noise reduction tricks to bump up the power and still keep it under 80 decibels. We'll find out in July. | ||
| Msetta |
I think a lot of the worry about Buell and Harley and the pressure for the FB to be a hit may be shortsided. I am sure Harley expects Buell to pick up the pace and start taking a little more market share, but I also don't think HD was blind initially when they decided to buy Buell and Erik's dream and vision. I am sure they made goals both short term and long term, and a company with HD's success would not have made sub 10, 15, or 25 year goals (you would think). Right now, HD looks at the sport bike marketplace and does not see an American company that stands out. I think as long as Buell keeps hitting its reasonable short term goals (and that does not mean the FB has to be the best selling new sport bike on the market) they will see the long term potential and growth of Buell in the distant future. Then, 20 years from now, Buell's could be selling just as well as HD's are selling now, and all this pain and trouble would be worth it. HD has the money, and the marketing experience to do this, they just need time... The Setta | ||
| Buellistic |
TWO-BLAST (P4) In buelling BUELLLISTIC and/or Hardley-Harley |
