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José_Quiñones
Posted on Wednesday, March 06, 2002 - 10:06 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Former World Superbike Rider Kirk McCarthy Joins AMS Ducati

So what does this new guy do?

McCarthy Tops Wednesday Afternoon Pro Thunder Practice Times
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José_Quiñones
Posted on Wednesday, March 06, 2002 - 10:10 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

AMA Pro Racing Plans: 1000cc Superbike/Supersport, 600cc Supersport, With One Other Class To Be Determined By Market Forces


What class do Buell and Ducati belong in?
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Anonymous
Posted on Wednesday, March 06, 2002 - 10:41 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

I'll take "who cares" for $600.00 Alex.
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Blake
Posted on Thursday, March 07, 2002 - 02:17 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

The following MCN article was transcribed by Norm of UKBEG fame. THANKS Norm!!! And thanks to MCN for the article. My subscription is in the mail.


Quote:

Is it a sports bike, a street fighter or a cool roadster for riders who prefer something a little different?According to American firm Buell, its new XB9R Firebolt is all three. But, most important, it's the first in a new generation of models aimed squarely at riders on this side of the Atlantic.This has meant a major change of approach for the company which up until now has had a reputation for quirky, Harley-powered street bikes. OK, an air-cooled Harley-derived 984cc V-twin is at the heart of the Firebolt. But the two-valves-per-cylinder motor is a potent one, producing over 90bhp and boasting a compression ratio of 10:1, which is closer to that of a Japanese superbike than an American cruiser.

It's housed in an aluminium beam frame that also doubles as a 14-litre fuel tank. In future, all Buells will have beam rather than tubular frames. Oil is stored inside the swingarm and the XB9R also has a rim-mounted brake disc at the front.All interesting stuff. But the question everyone will ask is: Does this package deliver? And my first impression, after riding it at one of the twistiest tracks in Europe, is yes, it does. The Buell handles well and inspires confidence.

Choosing to launch it at a circuit like Valencia was a brave move for Buell. The 2.4-mile Spanish track has 14 corners and is a tough test for any chassis, brakes and tyres, not to mention rider.The beautifully balances Firebolt feels composed and encourages you to push hard. The motor produces enough grunt to be fun, but not enough to threaten breaking traction from the sticky Dunlop D207 tyres.

The bike turns sharply, but never gets unstable, the brakes are strong, but not over the top and it seems to weigh next to nothing. While the Buell's spec is futuristic, it all works together beautifully. When you're riding it you don’t think about the fuel in the frame, the oil in the swingarm or geometry that is similar to a 250cc GP bike. You're simply concentrating on getting around the next corner. And that's what the bike is so good at.

Valencia has several 180 degree corners that just seem to go on and on. Even at serious lean angles, the Buell is so settled you actually start to wonder if you could get your elbow down as well as your knee. The only thing that stops me trying is the thought that the bike's creator, Erik Buell, is in the pits and I don't really fancy bumping into him carrying bits of his bike.

The XB9R is tiny for a 1000cc bike, but I don't find it cramped despite being over 6ft. With a dry weight of just 175kg (385lb) flicking it from side to side requires little effort. With a 1320mm wheelbase and a 21 degree steering head angle - an amazing 75mm and three degrees less than the set-up on the new Yamaha R1 - you'd expect the Buell to be twitchy. But, no matter how busy you get, it doesn't become flustered. It always drops predictably into corners and feels totally planted. This is partly because of the new alloy beam chassis, which is a huge improvement over the tubular frame on previous Buells, but also down to brilliant weight distribution - Buell philosophy dictates that mass is kept low-down and central. Everything that can be lightened has been - even the footpegs have sections cut out. If it wasn't essential, Buell junked it.

The 92bhp motor works well. Torque is very linear and from 4000rpm to the 7500rpm limit, it pulls cleanly and with no surges, thanks to an automatic tensioner which eliminates and slap from the drive belt Buell favours over a conventional chain.

The only real black mark is over the gearbox. Many riders on the launch commented on the number of false neutrals they were getting, mainly when changing down at high speed. According to Buell, this can be eliminated by adjusting the gear lever and it only really happens with hard track use. In typical Buell fashion, the clutch is also quite stiff.

The radical rim-mounted discs work well. The single six-piston caliper is lacking slightly in initial feel, but there's loads of power when you need it.

Considering the number of technological advances on the Firebolt, it's highly impressive that Buell has got it so right at its first attempt. It handles brilliantly, has enough power for most people and looks great. If this is the future for Buell, we've a lot to look forward to.



And the interview with Erik...

Quote:

The Firebolt is the brainchild of Erik Buell, 51, who left Harley-Davidson in 1983 to set up the firm that bears his name. He launched the Thunderbolt a year later with his own frame design and a Harley engine. MCN caught up with him in Valencia and found that he's now created the bike he always wanted.

MCN: What inspired you to make the Firebolt?
BUELL: I love the handling of 250cc race bikes, but I hate the motors. I wanted to make a small and nimble bike with loads of torque.

MCN: What have you got against fuel tanks?
BUELL: I wanted a big air box, which left no room for a tank. Putting the fuel in the frame means we can have a big airbox and keep the bike small.

MCN: And what was wrong with a sump?
BUELL: As the bike is so small there is no room behind the engine. We tried putting the oil in the subframe but that affected the balance. Storing it near the swingarm pivot doesn't affect the handling.

MCN: Is there any advantage to using rim-mounted discs?
BUELL: I wanted the front wheel to be as light as possible to help the bike turn faster. Our research found that normal discs transfer most stress through the spokes. Rim discs let us use lighter spokes.

MCN: Air-cooled motors are pretty dated now for sports bikes, surely?
BUELL: With water-cooling you need radiators and loads of hoses. I wanted to keep the bike small. The air-cooled motor provided the acceleration and power we needed.

MCN: Are you happy with the bike?
BUELL: Definitely. The best day was last autumn when we took a pre-production bike to a tight, twisty track. It ran brilliantly and then I knew it was perfect.

MCN: How do you plan to follow the Firebolt?
BUELL: The Firebolt is a platform to build derivatives, but there is no rush. I want to get it right. Europe is a big market and it is important it gets to know the bike first.


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Blake
Posted on Thursday, March 07, 2002 - 02:32 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Oh geeeeez!!! Thanks Mark! I didn't see your copy already posted. Mine's prettier.
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Mark_In_Ireland
Posted on Thursday, March 07, 2002 - 05:58 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Get yourself to an optician immediately!!!! I'll try and get it to flash next time!!

On the other topic above, Quote:-
It's rather funny you look at articles written by the Amercan motorcycle press and compare it to those written by the Europen press. The US guys have an obsesion with Japanese bikes and their horsepower the guys on the other side of the Atlantic seem more intrigued by handling. I've noticed this in all the British motorcycle rags. Maybe it has more to do with the fact that their advertising isn't based on the big 4...just cheap porn.

I think the reason we prefer handling is that our normal roads are mostly narrower than your sidewalks, and there are only a handfull of roads which are actually dead straight and they were built by the Romans....in fact they still are in better condition than some of our modern roads!!:):)

My chevy van is the full width of one side of the carrigeway, gotta keep it tight into the kerb on the bends, no room for any drifting out......

Thought of the day, power is nothing without control...............
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Reepicheep
Posted on Thursday, March 07, 2002 - 09:50 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Mark said... "Power is nothing without control"

Good thought! Now that I think about it, power without control is simply noise.
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Kevyn
Posted on Thursday, March 07, 2002 - 11:41 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Right in front of me are pictures of a 955 Triumph Daytona and the 998 Duc...WOW, they are beautiful! Great reviews from the press. Look like incredibly fun machines.
However, I'm playing the waiting game here and I just know that Erik has something really freakin' gorgeous on the boards and being tested right now. I'm positive he'll deliver a bike to match the Triumph in looks and the Duc in performance and thats where I'll put my hard earned dough.

Ever so patient in the heartlands...
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Detroit
Posted on Thursday, March 07, 2002 - 03:31 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

From RRW:


Steve Rapp Fastest Superstock Rider Thursday Morning At Daytona

Unofficial Lap Times:
1. Steve Rapp, Suzuki GSX-R600, 1:53.667
2. Jake Zemke, Honda CBR600F4i, 1:54.558
3. Tommy Hayden, Kawasaki ZX-6R, 1:54.653
4. Jason Pridmore, Suzuki GSX-R600, 1:55.011
5. Lee Acree, Suzuki GSX-R750, 1:55.137
6. Craig Connell, Suzuki GSX-R750, 1:55.148
7. Tom Kipp, Suzuki GSX-R600, 1:55.193
8. Eric Bostrom, Kawasaki ZX-6R, 1:55.402
9. Ben Spies, Suzuki GSX-R600, 1:55.577
10. Mike Ciccotto, Buell XB9R, 1:55.752
11. Scott Greenwood, Suzuki GSX-R750, 1:55.868
12. Brian Parriott, Suzuki GSX-R750, 1:55.899
13. Chris Ulrich, Suzuki GSX-R750, 1:56.034
14. Tom Montano, Ducati 748R, 1:56.638
15. Rich Conicelli, Suzuki GSX-R750, 1:56.937
16. Tony Meiring, Kawasaki ZX-6R, 1:57.028
17. Stephane Mertens, Suzuki GSX-R750, 1:57.131
18. Chris Caylor, Suzuki GSX-R750, 1:57.199
19. Jimmy Moore, Suzuki GSX-R750, 1:57.228
20. Owen Weichel, Kawasaki ZX-6R, 1:57.335
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Detroit
Posted on Thursday, March 07, 2002 - 03:35 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

In supersport the XB9R was 2 seconds off the fastest time. At Daytona which is not friendly to a bike down on HP. Maybe the XB does stand a chance to get in the top 5 maybe a podium finish once or twice this year.
Man It is hard to find Firebolt race pics from Daytona. Hopefully a badwebber will bring some back after the races.
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Xgecko
Posted on Thursday, March 07, 2002 - 03:54 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Another thing to think about is that those 600's are Supersport bikes (they use Superstock as extra practice time) The top superstock bike is Lee Acree's, Suzuki GSX-R750 and the Firebolt is only .0615 behind him in 3rd. That is really suprising to me.

Late news Superstock running with Superbike

6. Michael Barnes, Suzuki GSX-R750, 1:53.854*
7. Larry Pegram, Suzuki GSX-R750, 1:54.391*
8. Steve Rapp, Suzuki GSX-R750, 1:55.114*
9. Eric Wood, Suzuki GSX-R750, 1:55.174*
10. Chris Ulrich, Suzuki GSX-R750, 1:55.331*
11. Lee Acree, Suzuki GSX-R750, 1:55.461*

Kurtis Robert ran 1:47.5 (and change) that's fast
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Blake
Posted on Thursday, March 07, 2002 - 05:22 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Mark: I was in BBS boost review mode and my goggles fogged on me. :)

Heck, it's such a refreshingly positive review, it's worth having it double posted. Heck, it deserves its own subtopic.

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José_Quiñones
Posted on Thursday, March 07, 2002 - 09:32 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Superstock (750cc) Qualifying from Daytona:

1. Steve Rapp, GSX-R750, 1:52.427 (New record)
.
.
.
.
.
22. Mike Ciccotto, Buell, 1:56.124
..
.36. Shawn Higbee, Buell, 1:57.482
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José_Quiñones
Posted on Thursday, March 07, 2002 - 09:35 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Jim posted the Pro Thunder Qualifying here
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Xgecko
Posted on Thursday, March 07, 2002 - 09:41 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Some thoughts on Pro Thunder and Kirk McCarty and his 748R. Something that was discused last year quite a bit was the fact that Ducati's aerodymanics are very favorable to a tiny rider. This was quite an apparent difference between Baylis and Bostrom last year in WSBK. Baylis is small (though not a small as Yamaha GP rider Gary McCoy) and Bostrom...well he's a rockclimber long and lean with WIDE shoulders (that's OK though because he can really throw the bike around). Now Kirk McCarty is another tiny rider, reports I read said he was like 136lbs, soaking wet. With the speeds the one can get at Daytona it's not surprising that he turned in such a fast time. HE litterally disapears behind the fairing. What will be interesting is to see how well he does at some of the more turn infested tracks that don't reward high HP/small drag.
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1320
Posted on Friday, March 08, 2002 - 08:18 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

I think the XB9R will rule the shorter turn infested tracks....
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Racinswifty
Posted on Friday, March 08, 2002 - 10:08 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

I agree with that, 1320
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Detroit
Posted on Friday, March 08, 2002 - 10:51 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

With the specualtion of the rumored or hoped for coming of the XB12R I have this thought. Not only would the cc's be upped but they could probably run a staggered manifold for 2 throttle bodies.
I wonder what the HP would be on a beast like that?
Any one care to speculate?
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José_Quiñones
Posted on Friday, March 08, 2002 - 01:08 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

The Firebolt Pro Thunder bikes at Daytona have the stock fuel injection, the only difference is that they are running without the air filter.

So the stock airbox can handle the bigger motor just fine.
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José_Quiñones
Posted on Saturday, March 09, 2002 - 07:53 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

And in fact they are not running a 1000 cc engine in that Pro Thunder Bike,

Try 1350cc!!! Against 750 watercooled Ducatis and 650cc watercooled suzukis, we'll see how they do tommorow.
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José_Quiñones
Posted on Saturday, March 09, 2002 - 08:18 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Well, we know a couple of things, these are from the Latest Battle2win, from Jay Hawley over on ATC and my own calculations:

1. The firebolt engine develops 93.5 hp per liter at the crank. (92/0.984)

2. Assuming a 15% loss due to the driveline, figure that it will be 80 hp at the wheel. If the Idler gear and the other improvements in the driveline reduce this loss, then it might be closer to 85 hp or better!

3. The valvetrain has been tested at 7500 rpm for hours and hours...... So it's bulletproof (so they say).

4. Maximum piston speeds for these engines is 4500 ft/min, which would be at 8675 rpm.

5. The piston speed for the Firebolt engine at 7500 rpm is only 3905 ft/min. So it's understressed, even though it has 700 rpm more on top than our current engines.

So, let's say they bump up the stroke to 3.5 inches, and the bore to the largest that will fit in the current cases, 3 13/16".

That gives you approximately 1308 cc's (almost 80 cubic inches)

Revs at maximum piston speed for a 3.5" stroke are about 7745 ft/min, so we're close (piston speed for this stroke at 7500 rpm is 4373 ft/min).

If they can get the same "power density" as the firebolt, 93.5 hp/liter at the crank, then:

A 1308 cc engine would produce 122 hp at the crank, so about 104 at the wheel, assuming 15% driveline loss.

How you keep the front wheel on the ground will require some very creative fuel injection mapping, and beyond my limited capabilities........
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Reepicheep
Posted on Saturday, March 09, 2002 - 02:08 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

I appreciate all the information coming out of this, but I still say I could not care less what displacement the Buell (or any of the other bikes) run, the rules all seem arbitrary to me anyway.

So a pushrod aircooled engine gets a displacement advantage over a watercooled one. Big deal. The watercooled four stroke engine gets a displacement advantage over a two stroke. Big Deal. You want to see some SERIOUS power to weight ratios, look at a small turbine engine.

What I am ultimately interested in is overall engine performance, weight, cost, reliablity, ease of maintenance, character of the delivered power, and how close the street engine I can buy relates to the race engine I can watch.

And while it would be cool to see a Buell on a podium, I would still rather see them put that same money and energy into building me a better cheaper streetfighter. If racing would get them there, more power to them, but the bikes I see race seem only remotely related to anything I could ever buy.
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S320002
Posted on Saturday, March 09, 2002 - 10:08 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Reepicheep,

Well said.

Greg
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Bullitt
Posted on Sunday, March 10, 2002 - 09:21 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Woo Hoo! I have 27 Firebolt miles under my butt (I did the demo ride 3 times) and wanted to pass what I felt along while it's fresh in my head, FWIW.

The demo ride was nice - slow/in traffic the first mile, hop on the interstate for a few miles, get off on an open four lane for a few miles, then back into traffic at the track. About 20 minutes altogether.

I'm 6 ft and 220#, and use my bike for commuting mostly, so I'm sure the racers would probably come away with different perceptions than mine. I'm interested in day-to-day use and the fun to ride factor, not the dyno wars. So here goes.

The Good Stuff: Don't believe everything you read - it felt plenty fast, especially when ripping to 7500 RPM in the lower gears, lofting the front wheel easily. The rev limiter comes in softly and makes the engine stutter without upsetting the bike, unlike my M2, which cuts out sharply. The engine doesn't have the grunty feel down low my bike does but makes it up in top end pull. It sounds great, even through the stock muffler. Vibration is cut in half of what I'm used to. Turning just feels telepathic to me. I've never ridden anything that changes direction so easily. The front brake felt pretty much identical to the M2 - strong, 2 finger brakes. The rear brake felt like the M2 as well - wooden, high effort. Very light clutch pull. The shifting? Wow! You get "click" instead of "thwack".

The Not So Good Stuff: A little cramped for my corn fed frame. My elbow is about 3" above my knee when seated. My wife just laughed at the passenger accomodations. The F.I. felt a little saggy when trying to blip the engine speed up for downshifts, and the engine returns to idle very slowly when the throttle is released. Not a problem, I guess, just a little weird. All 3 bikes did it.

The main thing I came away thinking was the quality of this thing is just phenominal. The best way I could descibe it is this: My M2 feels like it is assembled from several big parts that all vibrate their own way. The Firebolt feels like it was carved from one solid chunk, just really, really solid. The look and feel of everything on it is just tight. Nice job Erik + co.
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FB
Posted on Sunday, March 10, 2002 - 10:06 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

nice report, Bullitt :)

Blake, where can i get one of those '84 Thunderbolts mentioned in the MCN interview with Erik above? :)

ride to lean (so far your ELBOWS drag? cool!!!),
Ferris
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Oldman
Posted on Monday, March 11, 2002 - 07:37 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

iv'e only got 5 months+ on a buell(sportbike period) the only thing that i didn't like about the firebolt was the throttole response just starting out at low rpm's after you got em up it seemed to be pretty nice.
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Blake
Posted on Monday, March 11, 2002 - 08:38 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Oldman, can you please elaborate? Was there a lag, an abrupt hit...?
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Oldman
Posted on Tuesday, March 12, 2002 - 07:06 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

i guess you can call it a lag just like my m2. my "83" has an s&s "e" on it and the response is quicker. no lagging starting out. you get used to one thing and you expect everything to be that way sometimes. although the 01 ultra isn't any better at the beginning.
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Xgecko
Posted on Saturday, March 16, 2002 - 03:27 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Ok I got my first chance to throw a leg over the Firebolt...man is it SMALL...I WANT ONE BUELL was real nice and sent a Firebolt all the way to Hawaii for the Autoshow. Too Bad the ONE they sent was a gutless mule. Buell stripped out all the electrical (solenoid, relays ecm etc...). At least I got to sit on it and drool over it and such. I'll probably buy one when I get back from Japan. I talked to my dealerships owner about Buell's (Court would like this guy he usually rides a KLR) Seems his general opinion is that the Whole Recall issue was blown way out of proportion. He's rather excited about the Bolt (he's bought the first one due in) and can't wait to start a Lightning class at our local track (it's so tight that the track record is held by a HawkGT) the Bolt should be just the bike to work on that record. I think half of the 26 we're (Honolulu that is not me) due to get are already sold for what seems to be list price (10.2 with shipping...hawaii)\ One last thing I learned. It seems that there is a company in Germany that is making or is going to be making a full fairing for the Firebolt....things that make you go HUMMMMM
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Pilot
Posted on Monday, March 18, 2002 - 05:52 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Last week the Australian and New Zealand Buell dealers got to ride the XB9R around Norwell test track.How do I know this ,Neil rang today to tell me all about it and was he stoked. He was impressed and I know Neil can ride so this tells me a lot. The only thing he could not tell me was when mine would arrive only that production has happened and it takes 60 days to be shipped over(talk about slow boat from China)make that slow boat from East Troy.More news for Aussie riders is that a ride day will be happening around 11th May in Brisbane.Also with the demise of the tubed models and production concentrating on Blast and XB9R models. New models will happen .That info is along the same lines that if I told you I would have to kill you type of deal.A six foot two Kiwi won the battetrax event ,showing that the XB9R will fit riders of varing height. Neil wore the Aussie Invasion t shirt I gave him to the ride day and scored a t shirt from the day for me.Great Guy.
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